Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

[Wendy Pleakley]

The Mandalorian is the only thing that gave them cover to the tepid reaction to their hyped “end of the saga!!!” Thank God they had the Baby Yoda frenzy and the excitement around The Mandalorian series to help distract from what they had done to the core series.

It also speaks volumes that even Disney is bored with Rey’s journey - why is it the “end of the saga”? She’s now the most powerful Jedi ever and can pull launching ships out of the sky (and here Yoda can barely lift an X wing out of a swamp - what a loser) and is ready to take on the world.

If she’s such a compelling, interesting character why is the saga over, it should be beginning.

While the Skywalker saga is ending, the company won’t abandon the characters created in the most recent trilogy

"The saga will end" was a marketing phrase more than it was a promise. One shouldn't take that statement as meaning anything concrete in terms of the future of the franchise. The end of the movie implied there is more to come, the trailer is a marketing tool. The movie is what to go by.

A great star wars movie should have no problems coming out yearly.

Based on what? There's no precedent to suggest a yearly Star Wars movie should reach the lofty heights of The Force Awakens. History in fact shows us that Star Wars movies do better when there's a wait between films. The highest grossing films, like TFA and Phantom Menace benefited from a scarcity of product. We're seeing first hand that more Star Wars = diminishing returns, yet you argue the opposite.

Is it possible Rise would have done better had the story been better? Sure, but I don't have a crystal ball to confirm this. It also garnered positive audience scores, so it's not like people didn't like it.

The Rise of Skywalker may have under-performed a bit, but it still made more money than most films. Not unimpressive for the fifth movie in as many years. I see the results as proof that Star Wars can be successful if releasing movies frequently, because I don't measure success against the lofty heights The Force Awakens reached, a once in a generation event.

Per the averages cited in this thread, frequent Star Wars movies do comparatively well compared to the onslaught of Marvel movies. That seems reasonable to me. Both franchises have their big moments like TFA or Endgame, with average results being a bit more down to Earth.

 

[RobWDW1971]

While the Skywalker saga is ending, the company won’t abandon the characters created in the most recent trilogy

"The saga will end" was a marketing phrase more than it was a promise.

Let us pray it’s a promise.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Star Wars has been disproportionately weighted towards North American gross because its the quintessential western franchise...see if that continues with bad product...

And the trajectory is way down...they had to shelve it.

Yes. And, like I said, even with the worldwide numbers, they're very close when you exclude TFA.

I think looking at the trajectory is too simple. Why have the last two movies been down from 7 and 8? I'd surmise part of it relates to the quality of the films.

If you look at the prequels, you saw a big drop between I and II (by pretty much the same as what occurred between 7 and 8). But the numbers went back up for Episode 3. That didn't happen with 9. Clones was considered to be quite bad, but that didn't stop Sith from being successful. Even if 8 was awful (as bad as Clones), Rise could've bounced back like Sith did. I think part of the reason why it didn't was because Rise wasn't a very good movie or a fitting end to the trilogy.

So, I agree. I don't think Disney can coast on the Star Wars name if the product is bad.

 

[easyrowrdw]

The Mandalorian is the only thing that gave them cover to the tepid reaction to their hyped “end of the saga!!!” Thank God they had the Baby Yoda frenzy and the excitement around The Mandalorian series to help distract from what they had done to the core series.

It also speaks volumes that even Disney is bored with Rey’s journey - why is it the “end of the saga”? She’s now the most powerful Jedi ever and can pull launching ships out of the sky (and here Yoda can barely lift an X wing out of a swamp - what a loser) and is ready to take on the world.

If she’s such a compelling, interesting character why is the saga over, it should be beginning.

Lucas never made another movie about Luke Skywalker, Leia, or Han Solo. From what I've read, Lucas' follow-ups weren't focused on the original characters either. That doesn't mean they're bad characters. He just wanted to tell other stories.

Rey's story has largely been told. She defeated the bad guys; what world is there left to take on? I mean, we're not really itching for the Emperor to come back again are we?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Rey's story has largely been told. She defeated the bad guys; what world is there left to take on? I mean, we're not really itching for the Emperor to come back again are we?

I'd say her story has barely scratched the service. That was the problem with her in Rise, suddenly she's a Palpatine and it amounts to nothing. No conflict, no mystery as to her being bad or good, she was good before she knew and good after. Someone mentioned earlier the idea she could be a hybrid, using Jedi and Sith powers.

I'd like to see more stories with Rey, especially now that we're (hopefully) done with this need to have everyone be related and connected in some way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They didn’t. The sequel trilogy films are significantly better than the prequels, and I don’t even like The Rise of Skywalker at all.

We can debate this at length...and I think we probably will...

The fatigue argument is very real, and when dealing with event films, you simply can’t put 5 films that are tonally similar with the same characters in most of them out in 5 years. You may not buy it, but I assure it, it’s real.

Not at all. We can disagree...but this is borderline stupid (arguing fatigue).

Good Star Wars was and is still so in demand that it would be gulped by the gallon. But they can’t make it. And now the dust begins to collect on it.

Boy didn’t Marvel and Harry Potter learn THAT lesson the hard way!

Exactly. People have to ignore the obvious examples to make excuses for Disney mismanagement. Like they need even more excuses.

Yes. And, like I said, even with the worldwide numbers, they're very close when you exclude TFA.

I think looking at the trajectory is too simple. Why have the last two movies been down from 7 and 8? I'd surmise part of it relates to the quality of the films.

If you look at the prequels, you saw a big drop between I and II (by pretty much the same as what occurred between 7 and 8). But the numbers went back up for Episode 3. That didn't happen with 9. Clones was considered to be quite bad, but that didn't stop Sith from being successful. Even if 8 was awful (as bad as Clones), Rise could've bounced back like Sith did. I think part of the reason why it didn't was because Rise wasn't a very good movie or a fitting end to the trilogy.

So, I agree. I don't think Disney can coast on the Star Wars name if the product is bad.

It’s 100% about the quality and really not much else. The quality has been terrible.

Disney received an overwhelmingly receptive fan base - as the Star Wars fans have always been...5 years ago. Star Wars Fans are critical...but they also want new stuff more than any fans of any franchise. It’s part of their soul.

The product has been roundly bad on the whole. Near all of it. No need to list what could be hundreds of examples.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'd say her story has barely scratched the service. That was the problem with her in Rise, suddenly she's a Palpatine and it amounts to nothing. No conflict, no mystery as to her being bad or good, she was good before she knew and good after. Someone mentioned earlier the idea she could be a hybrid, using Jedi and Sith powers.

I'd like to see more stories with Rey, especially now that we're (hopefully) done with this need to have everyone be related and connected in some way.

Is this IT?

I’d ask the same question of @sedati....is this about the failure of this single character?

It’s not a good character. It’s ok to want the character to be good for any motive/reason...but it didn’t play.

Just have to look at how things have gone. I’ve seen zero indications there’s an appetite for this character to return. Don’t blame the concept or the actor...blame the writers and execution.

 

[erasure fan1]

Based on what? There's no precedent to suggest a yearly Star Wars movie should reach the lofty heights of The Force Awakens. History in fact shows us that Star Wars movies do better when there's a wait between films. The highest grossing films, like TFA and Phantom Menace benefited from a scarcity of product. We're seeing first hand that more Star Wars = diminishing returns, yet you argue the opposite.

Is it possible Rise would have done better had the story been better? Sure, but I don't have a crystal ball to confirm this. It also garnered positive audience scores, so it's not like people didn't like it.

The Rise of Skywalker may have under-performed a bit, but it still made more money than most films. Not unimpressive for the fifth movie in as many years. I see the results as proof that Star Wars can be successful if releasing movies frequently, because I don't measure success against the lofty heights The Force Awakens reached, a once in a generation event.

Per the averages cited in this thread, frequent Star Wars movies do comparatively well compared to the onslaught of Marvel movies. That seems reasonable to me. Both franchises have their big moments like TFA or Endgame, with average results being a bit more down to Earth.

No one thinks a yearly star wars movie will reach force awakens numbers. How am I arguing against anything? Did you read the line you quoted me on? I said a good star wars movie will have no problem coming out yearly. Meaning fatigue won't play a factor. For what it was supposed to be, rise of skywalker should have done 1.6b to 1.8b at a minimum in my opinion. Do I have proof that if the sequels were better planned and just better movies, the box office would have been better? Not really, but you don't know if they were better that it wouldn't have turned out better either. The whole point is fans as a majority will embrace good star wars, even if it's yearly. And for the record I think star wars needs to be allowed to have a first avenger or antman box office. You need that flexibility to introduce new characters and stories. They can't all be 2 plus billion, they just need to be quality.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A single, good annual Star Wars movie would make $1.5 billion - just my guess.

But that of course can’t and won’t happen for a variety of reasons.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

No one thinks a yearly star wars movie will reach force awakens numbers. How am I arguing against anything? Did you read the line you quoted me on? I said a good star wars movie will have no problem coming out yearly. Meaning fatigue won't play a factor. For what it was supposed to be, rise of skywalker should have done 1.6b to 1.8b at a minimum in my opinion. Do I have proof that if the sequels were better planned and just better movies, the box office would have been better? Not really, but you don't know if they were better that it wouldn't have turned out better either. The whole point is fans as a majority will embrace good star wars, even if it's yearly. And for the record I think star wars needs to be allowed to have a first avenger or antman box office. You need that flexibility to introduce new characters and stories. They can't all be 2 plus billion, they just need to be quality.

Well, it's all just opinion, but $1.6 billion would have put Rise into the top 7 movies of all time. Is that a reasonable expectation considering this is the fifth movie in five years?

I think it could have done better, but grossing over a billion dollars, when it's not an event like TFA was, to me says this is a very strong franchise. That's a result just about any other franchise would be envious of.

I disagree that Star Wars could release a movie yearly with no impact on the bottom line. That's just my opinion, but the evidence supports it.

I don't know why people dismiss fatigue as a factor. Do people really believe that a Star Wars movie every year will garner the same level of excitement as a Star Wars movie every 3 years? Yes, quality matters too, but this notion that increased supply won't lead to a decrease in demand, doesn't make sense to me.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I think it could have done better, but grossing over a billion dollars, when it's not an event like TFA was, to me says this is a very strong franchise. That's a result just about any other franchise would be envious of.

You continue to make the opposite argument - you are correct, it wasn’t an event and that’s why it is struggling to catch even Rogue One domestically. However, being the end of the current saga and the culmination of all of these “incredible” characters and their stories SHOULD have been a massive event like Endgame. It didn’t generate that status because there was little enthusiasm about Rey, Poe, Finn, and Rose Tico and what happens to them or the poor man’s Rebellion and Empire knockoffs.

This SHOULD have been the must see movie of them all and it wasn’t. More of a “been there, done that.”

 

[erasure fan1]

I don't know why people dismiss fatigue as a factor. Do people really believe that a Star Wars movie every year will garner the same level of excitement as a Star Wars movie every 3 years? Yes, quality matters too, but this notion that increased supply won't lead to a decreas

No it won't garner the same excitement as a every 3yr release. But that's ok. A yearly star wars can do a well above average box office with a moderate box office thrown in. Then you have the event film, similar to the avengers, that does the 1.5 plus billion. If the expectation is 1.8b plus every time. Star wars is destined to fail.

Well, it's all just opinion, but $1.6 billion would have put Rise into the top 7 movies of all time. Is that a reasonable expectation considering this is the fifth movie in five years?

Absolutely. The build up to this was 42years in the making. If it wasn't the "epic conclusion to the Skywalker saga" I would agree with you. Rise of skywalker suffered from the divisiveness of last jedi for sure. It wasn't going to beat force awakens but to think it wouldn't split the difference, doesn't make sense to me.

 

[easyrowrdw]

I'd say her story has barely scratched the service. That was the problem with her in Rise, suddenly she's a Palpatine and it amounts to nothing. No conflict, no mystery as to her being bad or good, she was good before she knew and good after. Someone mentioned earlier the idea she could be a hybrid, using Jedi and Sith powers.

I'd like to see more stories with Rey, especially now that we're (hopefully) done with this need to have everyone be related and connected in some way.

I would've been interested in that if it had been in Episode 9. I feel like it's too late now, but I might be wrong. I think there are some interesting ideas they broached in 7 and 8, but failed to pay off in 9 that could work.

It’s 100% about the quality and really not much else. The quality has been terrible.

Disney received an overwhelmingly receptive fan base - as the Star Wars fans have always been...5 years ago. Star Wars Fans are critical...but they also want new stuff more than any fans of any franchise. It’s part of their soul.

The product has been roundly bad on the whole. Near all of it. No need to list what could be hundreds of examples.

The evidence doesn't support this conclusion. There's been some good and some bad, much like the six movies that came before. Whether you want to consider fan ratings, box office numbers, or critical opinion, there is ample evidence to that.

 

[Tony Perkis]

I would've been interested in that if it had been in Episode 9. I feel like it's too late now, but I might be wrong. I think there are some interesting ideas they broached in 7 and 8, but failed to pay off in 9 that could work.



The evidence doesn't support this conclusion. There's been some good and some bad, much like the six movies that came before. Whether you want to consider fan ratings, box office numbers, or critical opinion, there is ample evidence to that.

I really wish this foolish notion that there is a objective truth about the quality of the films would just die.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I really wish this foolish notion that there is a objective truth about the quality of the films would just die.

As I wish the idea of consensus, patterns, and common sense would be embraced

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The evidence doesn't support this conclusion. There's been some good and some bad, much like the six movies that came before. Whether you want to consider fan ratings, box office numbers, or critical opinion, there is ample evidence to that.

Maybe “quality” isn’t the right word...

Disney has failed in its attempt to enhance the franchise and grow it’s appeal longterm.

Movies that have no discernible story arcs with poorly written characters are frankly terrible. That’s mostly what we’ve gotten.

No...that in no way compares to the OT and the PT comparisons where never the goal.
Strategic failure.

 

[Tony Perkis]

As I wish the idea of consensus, patterns, and common sense would be embraced

Not when they’re based on flawed logic.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

No it won't garner the same excitement as a every 3yr release. But that's ok. A yearly star wars can do a well above average box office with a moderate box office thrown in. Then you have the event film, similar to the avengers, that does the 1.5 plus billion. If the expectation is 1.8b plus every time. Star wars is destined to fail.

Absolutely. The build up to this was 42years in the making. If it wasn't the "epic conclusion to the Skywalker saga" I would agree with you. Rise of skywalker suffered from the divisiveness of last jedi for sure. It wasn't going to beat force awakens but to think it wouldn't split the difference, doesn't make sense to me.

The Force Awakens was the Endgame of Star Wars. The sequel fans had been waiting for since 1983.

With the original cast out of the picture by Episode 9, it was never going to be an Endgame type event (a movie that concluded a decade of story telling).

Maybe had they done things differently and it had actually been the conclusion of the Skywalker saga, it could have done better. It was ultimately the conclusion to the Palpatine saga, and the conclusion to the story of Rey & company (characters people generally seem to like, but not to the degree fans have obsessed over Luke, Han, and Leia for decades).

 

[Mike S]

The Force Awakens was the Endgame of Star Wars. The sequel fans had been waiting for since 1983.

With the original cast out of the picture by Episode 9, it was never going to be an Endgame type event (a movie that concluded a decade of story telling).

Maybe had they done things differently and it had actually been the conclusion of the Skywalker saga, it could have done better. It was ultimately the conclusion to the Palpatine saga, and the conclusion to the story of Rey & company (characters people generally seem to like, but not to the degree fans have obsessed over Luke, Han, and Leia for decades).

Easiest thing they could’ve done was make it so Luke doesn’t disappear at the end of TLJ and show more training with him and Rey in RoS since they knew Carrie was gone and couldn’t be used effectively. Luke simply not dying after the Force projection wouldn't have altered anything about what certain people liked about that movie. Then just have a big battle in the beginning of IX where Leia dies.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not when they’re based on flawed logic.

Such as a precipitous drop in box office, short runs, public firings of multiple directors, script doctors being brought in late for edits and reshoots, and the ceo of an unlimited wealth corporation announcing they’re “taking a step back” from making movies in perhaps the most influential ( and by far most lucrative) film franchise ever?