Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

[jt04]

We do have differing views...

But it’s not world views...it’s basic consumer products and/or economics.

There is no unwritten rule to “be positive” about what you buy...as suggested for 20 years on the disboards.

In fact...in the case of Disney...if they pick up that’s what you’re doing, they will figuratively strangle you with it over time. I’ve been behind the wall.

Back to Star Wars - I hope they can save it and understand...but my confidence isn’t at its peak right now

I am selective about what I defend and don't defend. Was very critical of FLE 2.0. Silent on other decisions. No real agenda except, I guess, wanting to see WDW succeed and central Florida's tourist industry grow. If I had to sum up my 20,000+ contributions here. Certainly haven't received any personal gain.

 

[erasure fan1]

Anyway, I just wanted to say Episode IX should've opened with "Hope has returned to the galaxy! The legend of Luke Skywalker has spread, inspiring systems to join the Resistance," given that's what's set up at the end of The Last Jedi

Yes, that should have been the way it opened. Kennedy allowed Rian to make the movie he made. So own up and finish it. This is why things are so disjointed. You let JJ soft reboot star wars and start down a certain path. Then you let Rian come in and run roughshod all over 7. So now with 9, they take things back to more of a 7 trajectory. That is why Kennedy takes so much of the blame on all this in my eyes. I will say that if you are going to blame JJ for not continuing Rians path. Keep in mind that JJ was a lot more true to 8 than Rian was to 7.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

In fact...in the case of Disney...if they pick up that’s what you’re doing, they will figuratively strangle you with it over time.

Which is what I don't understand. Disney is not a stupid company. The reception of TFA was great. We can argue the merits of reboot, same-ol-same ol, etc. But the blueprint was there. A $2 Billion dollar blueprint at that.

How they let TLJ out into the public - knowing it would completely change that dynamic is beyond me. I expected to be fed more and more. Which again, we can argue the merits of "remaking the original trilogy". I didn't necessarily want THAT. But I thought they would be able to reach a middle ground. Nobody in their right mind could have thought that TLJ was that middle ground.

They had plenty of time to tinker with personal agendas, subversion of expectations etc, utlizing the standalone movies or the Disney+ vehicle. Why they chose to do it with the trilogy is beyond me. But you reap what you sow.

 

[jt04]

Which is what I don't understand. Disney is not a stupid company. The reception of TFA was great. We can argue the merits of reboot, same-ol-same ol, etc. But the blueprint was there. A $2 Billion dollar blueprint at that.

How they let TLJ out into the public - knowing it would completely change that dynamic is beyond me. I expected to be fed more and more. Which again, we can argue the merits of "remaking the original trilogy". I didn't necessarily want THAT. But I thought they would be able to reach a middle ground. Nobody in their right mind could have thought that TLJ was that middle ground.

They had plenty of time to tinker with personal agendas, subversion of expectations etc, utlizing the standalone movies or the Disney+ vehicle. Why they chose to do it with the trilogy is beyond me. But you reap what you sow.

On the bright side they seem to have ditched they yin and yang takeover of the ip with ep 9. Clearly this is back to good vs evil of the OT.

Which is probably why the critics hate it.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Clearly this is back to good vs evil of the OT.

Good vs Evil is the baseline of probably most every movie ever made. Sometimes it's not emphasized as much, but it's there. There is always an antagonist and a protagonist. Most movies don't work without those two key elements.

IMO I thought it would be cool to maybe cross those lines a bit. Maybe the Jedi weren't as "good" as we were led to believe. Maybe the Sith weren't as "bad" (although due to the Nazi Germany depiction of the Empire in the OT - that would have been a bit harder to pull off). I'd have liked to delve a bit more into the Whills. Maybe even explore a new yet to be discovered group (who was a bit more centric and "balanced" - That had both light and dark elements and took issue with both previously defined sides). Maybe the Knights of Ren could have been that group. Which would have given Kylo a more defined arc - having inherited the evil that was Vader and the good that was Leia.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which is what I don't understand. Disney is not a stupid company. The reception of TFA was great. We can argue the merits of reboot, same-ol-same ol, etc. But the blueprint was there. A $2 Billion dollar blueprint at that.

How they let TLJ out into the public - knowing it would completely change that dynamic is beyond me. I expected to be fed more and more. Which again, we can argue the merits of "remaking the original trilogy". I didn't necessarily want THAT. But I thought they would be able to reach a middle ground. Nobody in their right mind could have thought that TLJ was that middle ground.

They had plenty of time to tinker with personal agendas, subversion of expectations etc, utlizing the standalone movies or the Disney+ vehicle. Why they chose to do it with the trilogy is beyond me. But you reap what you sow.

The last Jedi is 1000% on kennedy, Johnson and the LFL story group...

They basically “went rogue”...

Let me introduce another “thread celebrity”:

Ugly Truths About the Lucasfilm Story Group Starting to Emerge - Bleeding Fool

Readers of this blog may be familiar with the mysterious nature of Kiri Hart’s departure from the Lucasfilm, which received no self-aggrandizing fanfare in the same manner that her hiring did.

bleedingfool.com

There is something not right about Kennedy and Johnson...she defended him “too hard”...and I don’t think his “trilogy” announcement was sanctioned by the dwarf house...they’ve never mentioned it once...not ever.

But the reason why Disney screwed it up...and deviated from their “good and bad” setup...
Is there other Achilles heel: creative hubris.

They believe that they can sell anything they want. But that’s because what they’ve had is generally the best stories and characters in Hollywood. Lucas made the same mistake...the label was never bigger than the substance.

Your know what I honestly blame? Get ready...

The live action remakes of Disney cartoons.

They made malificent...which was not a remake...then some nitwit decided that the rehashes were great and it didn’t matter if they were good.

They largely haven’t been...but they make a fortune. Their conclusion was: “as long as it’s Disney”

But they went and grabbed an animal
By the tail that they didn’t understand: Star Wars...

They walked into and alley with a starving alligator with a steak shoved down their pants.

Didn’t focus on the story and emotions...just their data analysis. Don’t get it.

I believe that Star Wars is considered a borderline disaster by Disney right now...in a screwy way...I just can’t prove it.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

There is something not right about Kennedy and Johnson

Yup.

 

[erasure fan1]

You know what I honestly blame? Get ready...

The live action remakes of Disney cartoons.

They made malificent...which was not a remake...then some nitwit decided that the rehashes were great and it didn’t matter if they were good.

We have a winner! I feel I've been fairly consistent with my criticism of Disney. And one of those things I have been most vocal about is the live action remakes. I truly believe they have done a lot more harm than good for the brand overall. The philosophy of mediocrity will sell based on strength of the brand has sadly leached into star wars. Thankfully that hasn't hit marvel yet. Sorry broken record time... Feige has been there to fend off the infection, unlike star wars and Kennedy. The jury is still out with pixar. I guess we will see how things play out without Lasseters influence.

Thankfully Favreau seems to have been able to avoid the missteps of Disney/Lucasfilm with star wars. And for that I have some hope. I'm just in a, ok prove it, frame of mind at this point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Lol...I see you got edited for going “too piggy” Scorp...

Crossed the line.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Lol...I see you got edited for going “too piggy” Scorp...

Crossed the line.

Self edited. Didn't feel my comment was appropriate for this thread. Probably best served for the "netherworlds" (That other forum section - that I try to stay far away from)

See.....I do have standards (sometimes)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Self edited. Didn't feel my comment was appropriate for this thread. Probably best served for the "netherworlds" (That other forum section - that I try to stay far away from)

See.....I do have standards (sometimes)

Good call...

I liked it halfway through...not so much at the end

 

[TROR]

Yes, that should have been the way it opened. Kennedy allowed Rian to make the movie he made. So own up and finish it. This is why things are so disjointed. You let JJ soft reboot star wars and start down a certain path. Then you let Rian come in and run roughshod all over 7. So now with 9, they take things back to more of a 7 trajectory. That is why Kennedy takes so much of the blame on all this in my eyes. I will say that if you are going to blame JJ for not continuing Rians path. Keep in mind that JJ was a lot more true to 8 than Rian was to 7.

Not really. What did Rian ruin from TFA? Things like Kylo destroying his helmet, Snoke dying, Rey being nobody aren’t undoing TFA, they’re growing the story. Maybe it’s not how you or JJ wanted the story to go, but it’s not a contradiction to what was set up in TFA. Compare that to Luke sparking hope at the end of TLJ and then he didn’t in TROS, or Rose having romantic interest in Finn in TLJ and then having none in TROS.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy would have mucked up the JAWS remake..........I'll leave it at that.

 

[seascape]

Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy would have mucked up the JAWS remake..........I'll leave it at that.

The Jaws movies went down hill with each release. The Original Jaws was a great movie and the only Jaws movie worth seeing. Universal blew it with the remakes by going cheap. Profits are one thing but a high quality movie is more important in the long run.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

What did Rian ruin from TFA?

No character development. Massive plot holes. Things that didn't make sense. Regressing characters. I'll ask you this - What was Rose Tico's purpose? What was Holdo's purpose. What did Canto Bight have to do with anything?

Instead of taking the new "big three" and connecting them more...he separated them. He had Phasma, Snoke, The Knights of Ren, Rey's backstory, characters like Finn and Poe - that he completely cast aside. But the biggest thing - He killed the story.

What anticipation was built up leading into IX? What story was there left to follow? What "payoff" could the audience expect/look forward to. What question was possibly going to be answered?

 

[TROR]

No character development.

Um, Kylo Ren killed Snoke and became the Supreme Leader of the First Order. Rey learned to be a Jedi. Poe learned what it meant to be a leader and not a hot head. Finn learned to care about the Resistance as a whole and not just himself and his friends. Luke over came his exile to be a hero.

Massive plot holes. Things that didn't make sense. Regressing characters. I'll ask you this - What was Rose Tico's purpose? What was Holdo's purpose. What did Canto Bight have to do with anything?

To teach Finn and Poe their lessons.

Instead of taking the new "big three" and connecting them more...he separated them. He had Phasma, Snoke, The Knights of Ren, Rey's backstory, characters like Finn and Poe - that he completely cast aside. But the biggest thing - He killed the story.

The "big three" didn't even all meet in TFA so he didn't split them up because they were never together. Poe and Rey don't meet till the end of TLJ and that's JJ's fault, not Rian's.

Phasma got exactly as much time as she deserved and was necessary to serve the story, Snoke got just as much time as he deserved and was necessary to serve the story, and while I would have liked to see The Knights of Ren they weren't necessary for the story.

What anticipation was built up leading into IX? What story was there left to follow? What "payoff" could the audience expect/look forward to. What question was possibly going to be answered?

The fact Kylo Ren is now the Supreme Leader of the First Order, Luke Skywalker has inspired hope throughout the galaxy, Rey further training in the force, the growing of the Resistance with their allies, the end of the war.

Nothing you said even answers my question. Tell me what Rian did that overruled and contradicted what was specifically set up in TFA or shut up.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Um, Kylo Ren killed Snoke and became the Supreme Leader of the First Order. Rey learned to be a Jedi. Poe learned what it meant to be a leader and not a hot head. Finn learned to care about the Resistance as a whole and not just himself and his friends. Luke over came his exile to be a hero.


To teach Finn and Poe their lessons.


The "big three" didn't even all meet in TFA so he didn't split them up because they were never together. Poe and Rey don't meet till the end of TLJ and that's JJ's fault, not Rian's.

Phasma got exactly as much time as she deserved and was necessary to serve the story, Snoke got just as much time as he deserved and was necessary to serve the story, and while I would have liked to see The Knights of Ren they weren't necessary for the story.


The fact Kylo Ren is now the Supreme Leader of the First Order, Luke Skywalker has inspired hope throughout the galaxy, Rey further training in the force, the growing of the Resistance with their allies, the end of the war.

Nothing you said even answers my question. Tell me what Rian did that overruled and contradicted what was specifically set up in TFA or shut up.

So, yeah. He pretty much killed the story.

 

[TROR]

So, yeah. He pretty much killed the story.

He killed the story because you have no imagination or creative juice in your brain.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

He killed the story because you have no imagination or creative juice in your brain.

Well. You didn't work on the story. I didn't work on the story. So how about we hear from someone who did? Fair?

“I think [The Last Jedi director] Rian Johnson is an amazing filmmaker, and I just think that when you’re doing a trilogy, you can’t just abandon a story. So whatever he chose to put in that film, those things that are dangling have to be dealt with.”

Not exactly a "glowing" endorsement. Realize. It's not "evolve what he did", not "expand on what he did", not even "carry what he did forward". Nope. We just had to "deal with it"

Luke’s Death Was Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker’s Biggest Post-Last Jedi Challenge

Luke's death was one of the hardest things about making The Rise Of Skywalker.

screenrant.com

 

[TROR]

Well. You didn't work on the story. I didn't work on the story. So how about we hear from someone who did? Fair?

“I think [The Last Jedi director] Rian Johnson is an amazing filmmaker, and I just think that when you’re doing a trilogy, you can’t just abandon a story. So whatever he chose to put in that film, those things that are dangling have to be dealt with.”

Not exactly a "glowing" endorsement. Realize. It's not "evolve what he did", not "expand on what he did", not even "carry what he did forward". Nope. We just had to "deal with it"

Luke’s Death Was Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker’s Biggest Post-Last Jedi Challenge

Luke's death was one of the hardest things about making The Rise Of Skywalker.

screenrant.com

Dude, stop whining. The Last Jedi's a fine movie. Like I said, answer how Rian stepped over JJ's work and contradicted what had been set up, or shut up. I'm not responding to your moaning again. Grow up. I didn't think TROS was good, but I'm not digging deep into why or how because I can just have fun with what I was given or move on in life like an adult.