Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
On the surface I would call it a draw. As of now they both fail in different areas. The sequel trilogy had more star wars moments and visually felt more like star wars. But the prequels told a singular story vision. I've had a long time to come to terms with my issues with the prequels so I would give the edge to them right now.


I liked RotS probably better than anything in this trilogy. I thought VIII to be the worst SW movie ever made. So breaking it down VII and IX are better than I and II. But VIII is so abysmally worse than III - that I have to give a slight nod to the Prequels.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I liked RotS probably better than anything in this trilogy. I thought VIII to be the worst SW movie ever made. So breaking it down VII and IX are better than I and II. But VIII is so abysmally worse than III - that I have to give a slight nod to the Prequels.
Sound reasoning...

I just am far more harsh on 7...
What in the hell did you think a complete remake was gonna do???? It only made a mockery of itself as it attempted to plug the original characters into roles that others played 40 years ago. You can do that with bit franchises...but not iconic characters.

8 was abysmal...1 was horrendous...2 was laughable...7 was a slap with a wet fish...9 was a disjointed mess....3 was better but they had HIM in it....

It’s just still hard to process....it reminds me of a lot of the comedic commentary in the People vs George Lucas...only now reborn for Disney

On phantom menace:
“16 years....16 YEARS...
...and this was really the best you could do??”

That mirrors my thoughts in many ways on 7...only they didn’t even try to be original”

What’s for sure now is no one better EVER say a bad word about return of the Jedi again...
Don’t even try it
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The Last Jedi.


If my age is no longer on my profile, it's not because I took it off. I'm 21.

Star Wars is literally for kids, . It's a series of films about wizards, princesses, queens, and knights.
Not to Point out the obvious: but you’re about 20 years too young to understand the cord Star Wars struck in its time and space...

George Lucas claimed it was for kids after his prequels started to tank...the themes and pacing of the original 3 mostly were not. It was also a commentary on the post 60’s social climate as well...a time of tumult that had to “re-invent” what we found to be compelling and what our new fairy tales would look like.
 
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TROR

Well-Known Member
Not to Point out the obvious: but you’re about 20 years too young to understand the cord Star Wars struck in its time and space...you clown.

George Lucas claimed it was for kids after his prequels started to tank...the themes and pacing of the original 3 mostly were not. It was also a commentary on the post 60’s social climate as well...a time of tumult that had to “re-invent” what we found to be compelling and what our new fairy tales would look like.

Now study chapter 12 before next class...you have Internet muscles on this...not real ones
That's like saying The Lord of the Rings isn't for kids because it has heavy themes. Children's content can still be enjoyed by adults yet still be made for children.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
The Marvel EU wasn't stopped by The Incredible Hulk. The Last Jedi won't stop Star Wars.

Just a reminder it was followed by IM2 which did well but not great.
None of the MCU movies get as bad as TLJ. Not even Thor: The Dark World.
Not really. What did Rian ruin from TFA? Things like Kylo destroying his helmet, Snoke dying, Rey being nobody aren’t undoing TFA, they’re growing the story. Maybe it’s not how you or JJ wanted the story to go, but it’s not a contradiction to what was set up in TFA. Compare that to Luke sparking hope at the end of TLJ and then he didn’t in TROS, or Rose having romantic interest in Finn in TLJ and then having none in TROS.
Pretty much every intriguing mystery was shot down and the movie basically said “yeah, none of this matters anymore.”
That's like saying The Lord of the Rings isn't for kids because it has heavy themes. Children's content can still be enjoyed by adults yet still be made for children.
So why lambast Rogue One for having heavier themes?
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Pretty much every intriguing mystery was shot down and the movie basically said “yeah, none of this matters anymore.”
Such as... ? Snoke was never set up to be a mystery, Rey's lineage was but it answered the question in a way that does matter to the characters, The Knights of Ren weren't even addressed so Rian didn't stomp all over them (though JJ sure did).

So why lambast Rogue One for having heavier themes?
Because it doesn't have heavy themes. Violence, "grit," and the main characters dying ≠ heavy themes.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
That's like saying The Lord of the Rings isn't for kids because it has heavy themes. Children's content can still be enjoyed by adults yet still be made for children.
Those movies can and will continue to be enjoyed by kids.

But saying they’re “kid movies” is a ridiculous stance/excuse. The people that made the OT...there were hundreds...have never once said in any print or interview that they were “kids movies”. There’s been a bit of that print and interview available over the years.

If anything...they are “simplified” adult movies that kids can take what they want out of. Which is the modern template of most Hollywood blockbusters...including the lord of the rings.

Many Disney fans struggle to find how to fight through “mental misdirection” like George said...or when Disney blamed “fatigue” for solo...

Don’t be one of those people...analyze the nuance and deduce the truth
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Such as... ? Snoke was never set up to be a mystery, Rey's lineage was but it answered the question in a way that does matter to the characters, The Knights of Ren weren't even addressed so Rian didn't stomp all over them (though JJ sure did).

I don’t need to comment here...READ what you wrote again
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Those movies can and will continue to be enjoyed by kids.

But saying they’re “kid movies” is a ridiculous stance/excuse. The people that made the OT...there were hundreds...have never once said in any print or interview that they were “kids movies”. There’s been a bit of that print and interview available over the years.

If anything...they are “simplified” adult movies that kids can take what they want out of. Which is the modern template of most Hollywood blockbusters...including the lord of the rings.

Many Disney fans struggle to find how to fight through “mental misdirection” like George said...or when Disney blamed “fatigue” for solo...

Don’t be one of those people...analyze the nuance and deduce the truth
Ok dude you're right, the fairy tale about wizards and knights saving princesses is not for children. It's high art for sophisticated adults.

I don’t need to comment here...READ what you wrote again
Yes? Snoke was not a mystery in TFA so there was no need for Johnson to explain where he came from. Rey's lineage was a mystery and Rian's answer in TLJ still matters to the character and the story (the idea of her being a nobody is still more compelling and unique than her being a descendant of the Sith, as if we haven't seen that before!).
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Such as... ? Snoke was never set up to be a mystery, Rey's lineage was but it answered the question in a way that does matter to the characters, The Knights of Ren weren't even addressed so Rian didn't stomp all over them (though JJ sure did).


Because it doesn't have heavy themes. Violence, "grit," and the main characters dying ≠ heavy themes.
Snoke was setup as the new big bad. People found him intriguing and wanted to know more. Whoever was making VIII should’ve seen this and done something big with it. The fact they brought back Palpatine proves Disney was on the same page as the people saying Kylo Ren wasn’t intimidating enough to be a main villain. Other things I do blame on JJ. Rey’s parentage should’ve never been made a big deal of imo. That’s what set off all the theories. It’s also clear he didn’t have a clue where he wanted most of his things to go. The point remains though that TFA set things up that people wanted payoffs to and never got.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Snoke was setup as the new big bad. People found him intriguing and wanted to know more. Whoever was making VIII should’ve seen this and done something big with it. The fact they brought back Palpatine proves Disney was on the same page as the people saying Kylo Ren wasn’t intimidating enough to be a main villain. Other things I do blame on JJ. Rey’s parentage should’ve never been made a big deal of imo. That’s what set off all the theories. It’s also clear he didn’t have a clue where he wanted most of his things to go. The point remains though that TFA set things up that people wanted payoffs to and never got.
Snoke, like every side character in any story, exists to further develop the main character's stories. That's exactly what Snoke did and that's all he ever had to do.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Ok dude you're right, the fairy tale about wizards and knights saving princesses is not for children. It's high art for sophisticated adults.

Stories of fantasy, fairy tales, fables and ghosts have been a core part of human culture since the beginning of recorded civilization...they are a constant...they just evolve with the Times.

I hope no one is paying college tuition for you...you’re not getting much out of it
 

Gallandro

New Member
Not to Point out the obvious: but you’re about 20 years too young to understand the cord Star Wars struck in its time and space...you clown.

George Lucas claimed it was for kids after his prequels started to tank...the themes and pacing of the original 3 mostly were not. It was also a commentary on the post 60’s social climate as well...a time of tumult that had to “re-invent” what we found to be compelling and what our new fairy tales would look like.

Now study chapter 12 before next class...you have Internet muscles on this...not real ones

So I’m a newbie here, and I found this thread elsewhere... but sorry I had to reply to this. This notion that Lucas only claimed Star Wars was for kids after the prequels is complete revisionist history.


Lucas in a 1977 Rolling Stone interview:

“Right after Graffiti I was getting this fan mail from kids that said the film changed their life, and something inside me said, do a children’s film. And everybody said, “Do a children’s film? What are you talking about? You’re crazy”.

You know, I had done Graffiti as a challenge. All I had ever done to that point was crazy, avant-garde, abstract movies. Francis really challenged me on that. “Do something warm,” he said, “everyone thinks you’re a cold fish; all you do is science fiction”. So I said, “Okay, I’ll do something warm”. I did Graffitiand then I wanted to go back and do this other stuff, I thought I had more of a chance of getting Star Wars off the ground. I had gone around to all the studios with Apocalypse Now for the tenth time and then they said, no, no, no. So I took this other project, this children’s film.”

Lucas Time magazine May 1977:

"It's the flotsam and jetsam from the period when I was twelve years old," says Director George Lucas, 33. "All the books and films and comics that I liked when I was a child. The plot is simple —good against evil—and the film is designed to be all the fun things and fantasy things I remember.”

As far back as a June 1976 interview with the Los Angles Times Lucas described Star Wars as a “kids movie” aimed “primarily at 14 and 15 year olds.”

Lucas in April 1977 American Film Magazine:

“George Lucas does nothing to disguise the fact that Star Wars is for the schoolboy in us all. "I decided I wanted to make a children's movie, to go the Disney route," Lucas explains in his distinctively nervous manner. "Fox hates for me to say this, but Star Wars has always been intended as a young people's movie. While I set the audience for Graffiti at sixteen to eighteen, I set this one at fourteen and maybe even younger than that."
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Dude, stop whining. The Last Jedi's a fine movie. Like I said, answer how Rian stepped over JJ's work and contradicted what had been set up, or shut up. I'm not responding to your moaning again. Grow up. I didn't think TROS was good, but I'm not digging deep into why or how because I can just have fun with what I was given or move on in life like an adult.

He’ll complain about Star Wars getting woke, avoiding your initial complaint.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Neither JJ or Rians story is what I wanted if I'm being honest. And realistically the way ep9 went, wasn't the way you wanted it to go obviously. But Rian took Finn and Hux and made them fools. I'm sick of hearing about Rose because Rian did no better with Maz, and Maz had a lot more potential than Rose in my opinion. You really can't argue that Rian took the story forward, I just don't like it. And then say JJ was wrong for doing the exact same thing. Just because you didn't like it. Sorry but thats not a great argument. Rey wasn't a nobody makes a lot of sense in the Skywalker saga. And Luke did spark hope, when the chips were down and the opportunity was there, they came. No matter what you thought of either of them. It should have been ONE vision. That is the crux of this whole argument. I'm not on JJs side or Rians.
Maz was a plot device, not an investable character. He was simply there to get the characters from A to B in both TFA and TLJ.

Her existence in TROS was to offer a moment of cringey fan service.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Maz was a plot device, not an investable character. He was simply there to get the characters from A to B in both TFA and TLJ.

Her existence in TROS was to offer a moment of cringey fan service.
Isn’t Maz a she?

I just wish they didn’t do the BS “story for another time” with Luke’s old Lightsaber. Pretty much made everyone think she’s actually big and important. I remember some thinking she would somehow be like this Trilogy’s Yoda because of that. I agree on her TRoS role. Useless.
 

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