Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

flynnibus

Premium Member
Johnson didn't kill Star Wars, fans did. They drove Lucas away with their vitriol. Then they spewed more hate at the new works until JJ decided to just give fanbois what they wanted rather than a good movie. People who put their hands over their ears and screamed "nuh uh, Luke wouldn't do that!" killed Star Wars.

So it's all the fan's fault that people didn't care for a blockbuster movie that ultimately was just a rehash of existing plot mechanisms with almost no originality?

Instead of blaming fans for imaginary hate... maybe you and Iger should step back and start to accept people JUST DIDN'T LIKE YOUR PRODUCT
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
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JJ also responded to memes about Chewie not getting a medal or a hug. JJ and Disney were looking to try and appease SW fanbois and look at the mess they created. 57% RT score isn't much of an "endoresement." Johnson created a much better film and the critics agreed. Unfortunately the man-children of the world didn't want a good movie, they wanted to be coddled and told they were special. More proof that the SW fan killed Star Wars.

Or the lack of talent in the creative lead to take feedback and use it in a good manner instead of taking the easy route of just 'giving them what they said they want' and them blaming the mob for their lack of creativity.

Walt didn't chastize the public for asking for more Three Little Pigs.. he declined and instead made better stuff. He didn't prance around pointing fingers at the public...
 

"El Scorpion"

Special Patrol Group
Premium Member
In the Parks
No
You were factually inaccurate. Don’t double down on false accusations. Just own up to it.



Is there something about:

GREAT - you got me. I confused the Del Toro's while posting something sarcastically.

That you didn't understand. Maybe I could space it differently - if it would help.
 
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Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Is it not possible that Lucas, Johnson and Abrams all have made some poor decisions regarding Star Wars that can be criticized on their own terms?

Certainly. None of the SW films are close to perfect. Its clear in New Hope that Luke is not related to Vader nor Leia. Vader's character changes quite a bit for the 2nd film. There's tons of sloppy writing that doesn't hold up to any type of scrutiny. I'll be the first to admit that Johnson's film had some dumb errors in terms of storytelling. Heck, the movie should have ended in the throne room with Kylo and Rey and saved Crait for the next film.

But when judging such an imperfect franchise as SW, I look at the story and what each film did with that story. I liked where Johnson took Luke and Ren. I liked the Hondo maneuver as did almost everyone I talked with. I liked the idea of the hotshot maverick being wrong and screwing things up because they're thinking only about themselves. Even though I think it should have waited, I loved the final stand off between Luke and the First Order and he attacked Kylo's biggest weakness, his reputation and image.

Compare that to TFA where I loved the first act of the film, but once they found the Falcon, the movie took a massive dip for me. I knew exactly where the movie was going as it went about to retread so much. The performances kept it interesting, but it was just JJ repeating previous movies while leaving his "mystery boxes" around. Mystery boxes that he's admitted to not having answers to. Its why most JJ properties start interesting and then peter out.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
So it's all the fan's fault that people didn't care for a blockbuster movie that ultimately was just a rehash of existing plot mechanisms with almost no originality?

Instead of blaming fans for imaginary hate... maybe you and Iger should step back and start to accept people JUST DIDN'T LIKE YOUR PRODUCT

My product? My check must be in the mail. When fans attack actors for roles they play, there's a problem with the fans. If I don't like Fast and Furious, I don't troll the actors to the point of quiting social media. The Disney movies ain't perfect, but this last blunder is clearly trying to pander to fans and that's one of its biggest downfalls.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Is there something about:



That you didn't understand. Maybe I could space it differently - if it would help.
You conveniently left out that you called that poster triggered, when he was simply correctly your inability to adhere to factual information.

You seem to have no problem accusing people of being snowflakes and whining about them being triggered, but it’s clear that you have a problem with the fact that 2 of main characters and female and black. That must really make you distraught. You’ll be fine.
 
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NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
I saw the movie a second time today, in IMAX.

I still really like the movie. I'm glad I'm able to enjoy these movies for the fun rides that they are. I'm happy to critique where they fell short, but I don't focus on the negative. This movie is a lot of fun with some great moments. Seeing people continue to obsessively rant about The Last Jedi seems unhealthy to me.

I like the final shot of the heroes celebrating in the woods. So much better than the awful end shot in Return of the Jedi of the cast posing like they're having their family portrait taken.

I still wish there were more shots of the galaxy rising up. Three moments felt insufficient.

The final space battle could have been longer.

The arrival of the fleet and the theme kicking in is awesome. It's moments like these that let me overlook any flaws the movie has.

I missed some music cues the first time, like the reprise of Jedi's Luke/Vader battle. John Williams has elevated all of these movies far beyond what they would be otherwise. He's a legend. I've listened to the new score many times and it's fantastic.

I really like Richard Grant in this. He's a smarmy Imperial office but not quite cartoony the way Hux is.

Many people were unhappy that we never learn what Finn wanted to tell Rey. There are multiple moments in the film that hint he is force sensitive, so the consensus that this was what it was makes sense.

There has been talk about healing, and why didn't we see it before? Theory: healing is a dark side power, one of those unnatural abilities Palpatine speaks of. Rey healing the sand worm is the first hint she has dark powers in her, followed by the lighting. This is why the Jedi never healed anyone before. And yes, I'm aware of the implications this theory could have for another beloved Star Wars character.

I don't understand why Palpatine tells Rey that if she kills him, he will join her body and they will rule together. That's not a selling point.

My IMAX theater was a bit too loud. Also, whoever allowed thirty (thirty!) minutes of commercials and previews before the movie deserves a force lightning bolt to the chest.

Great breakdown! Agree about Hux. He was the spy, but it was for selfish reasons, so he still didn’t end up redeemable imo.

We’re likely going to see again this weekend. My wife (who loves to root for bad guys) is still devastated about Kylo. But I’m not. I liked his character, but a mass murderer doesn’t deserve a happy ending. And he still kind of got one, minus the whole death part.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
My product? My check must be in the mail. When fans attack actors for roles they play, there's a problem with the fans. If I don't like Fast and Furious, I don't troll the actors to the point of quiting social media. The Disney movies ain't perfect, but this last blunder is clearly trying to pander to fans and that's one of its biggest downfalls.

The moronic behavior of some does not paint everyone the same. The stupidity of some has nothing to do with the behavior of others. It's rather pointless to hang what Joe does while talking about Bill.

The pandering to fans has been Disney's MO from the start.. and it sucked. Just read the quotes from Iger himself on their desire to keep the film familiar...

You keep pointing the finger at fans... for behavior that DISNEY THEMSELVES SET OUT TO DO.

Iger: "He [Lucas] wasn't wrong, but he also wasn't appreciating the pressure we were under to give ardent fans a film that felt quintessentially Star Wars. "

""We'd intentionally created a world that was visually and tonally connected to the earlier films, to not stray too far from what people loved and expected "

NOTE: This is DISNEY'S interpretation of what needed to be done.. before any movies or scripts were even known. This is Disney's ambition... unless there is some fan overlord who gets to hand Iger his marching orders we don't know about?

This endless blaming the fans is so boorish. THE FANS DON'T MAKE THE MOVIES. The fans judge them. Disney took a path from the start that THEY thought was best... they didn't take those marching orders from anyone else but themselves.

Disney didn't make a film.. and then adapt to fan input... they made TFA on their initiatives... and then they went again on THEIR initiatives with TLJ.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Great breakdown! Agree about Hux. He was the spy, but it was for selfish reasons, so he still didn’t end up redeemable imo.

We’re likely going to see again this weekend. My wife (who loves to root for bad guys) is still devastated about Kylo. But I’m not. I liked his character, but a mass murderer doesn’t deserve a happy ending. And he still kind of got one, minus the whole death part.

Its the same ending Vader got after he was a mass murderer. Except Vader got to be a Force Ghost.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Disney didn't make a film.. and then adapt to fan input... they made TFA on their initiatives... and then they went again on THEIR initiatives with TLJ.

They made TFA and the original parts were good. TLJ was great and was acclaimed. Then TROS...they backpedaled because of fan reactions to their acclaimed film. Check those boxes. Just give them what they want.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
They made TFA and the original parts were good. TLJ was great and was acclaimed. Then TROS...they backpedaled because of fan reactions to their acclaimed film. Check those boxes. Just give them what they want.

This selective viewing of the world is comical.

THE ANGST OVER THE NEW TRILOGY DID NOT START WITH ROS...

Your narrative is the problem is because they just gave the fans what they wanted. HELLO, THATS WHAT THEY TRIED ALL ALONG.. and people didn't like it. So stop with this 'its the fans fault' crap.. it doesn't hold up to any logic reasoning at all. Disney made the films - not the fans.
 

GenerationX

Well-Known Member
TLJ failed miserably. It was inconsistent with the established universe of the Skywalker Saga, illogically changed an established character, failed to take the baton from the first part of its trilogy, and failed to pass a baton to the third part in the trilogy. Terrible storytelling. Thankfully, on rewatching the saga, TLJ is completely unnecessary now.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
The narrative change has been fascinating here. I have said this is the true litmus test for if the last jedi backlash was just a small minority or not. Interesting how it has moved from "everyone loved it except for a small very vocal minority " to "critics said it was great, the fans are idiots."
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
Some quick thoughts before bed. Finally got to see it tonight for my birthday and I absolutely loved it!!! I was there with 18 friends and everyone had a blast. Like with Jedi, I see and understand a lot of the criticisms but none of that stuff bugs me enough to take away from the great time we all had. I can’t wait to see it again. Palpatine was terrifying. I love that they canonized Leia’s training. I really hope we see these characters again. I’m so happy that a new Star Wars film is in theaters right now. 😀
 
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