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Star Wars Ep. 9 Thread

rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
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Sadly there will always be extremes, but you never judge the normal dislike of these movies by those few extremist. That's called profiling. I bet you, that if Rey was Ray the male hero, Ray would have probably gotten more negativity because of him being a male. Atleast Rey being a female I'm sure gets some slack because men do respect women and have a caring nature towards them. People just want you to respect the characters that got you here, while ushering in the new. Disney didn't do this very well.
Oh, wow, I disagree. The criticism of Rey being a Mary Sue is commonplace. That's not something you see as much with male characters. Heck, there are 19.1 million google results for Rey Mary Sue, which is 8 million more than just Gary Stu - the general male term of the phenomenon. Of course, it's really impossible to say as the character wasn't a man.
 
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Mike S

Well-Known Member
Oh, wow, I disagree. The criticism of Rey being a Mary Sue is commonplace. That's not something you see as much with male characters. Heck, there are 19.1 million google results for Rey Mary Sue, which is 8 million more than just Gary Stu - the general male term of the phenomenon.
Superman gets these complaints all the time.
 

rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
Superman gets these complaints all the time.
That's a good point. I have heard that. Still, 11 million more results for Rey than Supe. ;) My point wasn't that it only exists for female characters, but it is generally a female character criticism. And it's commonly applied to Rey.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
That's a good point. I have heard that. Still, 11 million more results for Rey than Supe. ;) My point wasn't that it only exists for female characters, but it is generally a female character criticism. And it's commonly applied to Rey.
So I had legit never heard that term before this site, and I find it stupid and ridiculous as an attack. But I think your comparison is way off as to why it's a female thing. Of course she would have the largest google search. What other giant movie has come out this year that would have that complaint?
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
So I had legit never heard that term before this site, and I find it stupid and ridiculous as an attack. But I think your comparison is way off as to why it's a female thing. Of course she would have the largest google search. What other giant movie has come out this year that would have that complaint?
Or really anything of interest recently with as wide of a reach as Star Wars. Only thing I can think of is Captain Marvel. Even other super heroines haven’t gotten such complaints like Wonder Woman or the myriad of other Marvel female stars.
 

rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
So I had legit never heard that term before this site, and I find it stupid and ridiculous as an attack. But I think your comparison is way off as to why it's a female thing. Of course she would have the largest google search. What other giant movie has come out this year that would have that complaint?
It's not my comparison that makes it a female thing. Mary Sue is a female thing that has sometimes been applied to male characters. As Mike pointed out, Superman has been hit with the complaint as well. He's had three movies in the last six years and about 75 years of existence before that. Obviously google results are not the scientific method; I was mostly noting the sheer volume to indicate that it wasn't an obscure criticism of the Rey character.

Or really anything of interest recently with as wide of a reach as Star Wars. Only thing I can think of is Captain Marvel. Even other super heroines haven’t gotten such complaints like Wonder Woman or the myriad of other Marvel female stars.
The argument the original poster made was that Rey gets cut slack because she is a woman and would be criticized more as a man. I don't agree and I think she has received ample criticism already. One of the major criticisms is that she is a Mary Sue - a too-perfect female character. (And, yes, I have seen it for Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel too, though not to same degree.)
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
The argument the original poster made was that Rey gets cut slack because she is a woman and would be criticized more as a man. I don't agree and I think she has received ample criticism already. One of the major criticisms is that she is a Mary Sue - a too-perfect female character. (And, yes, I have seen it for Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel too, though not to same degree.)
When articles like this exist I wouldn’t be surprised if a male protagonist with the same characteristics as Rey caused a good amount of backlash.
https://www.newsweek.com/jedi-fallen-order-main-character-male-protagonist-rey-1448158

You’d have us complaining about why the character is so powerful plus weirdos like the writer of this article who claim to be progressive but clearly just have something against men, especially if they’re white.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
It's not my comparison that makes it a female thing. Mary Sue is a female thing that has sometimes been applied to male characters. As Mike pointed out, Superman has been hit with the complaint as well. He's had three movies in the last six years and about 75 years of existence before that. Obviously google results are not the scientific method; I was mostly noting the sheer volume to indicate that it wasn't an obscure criticism of the Rey character.



The argument the original poster made was that Rey gets cut slack because she is a woman and would be criticized more as a man. I don't agree and I think she has received ample criticism already. One of the major criticisms is that she is a Mary Sue - a too-perfect female character. (And, yes, I have seen it for Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel too, though not to same degree.)
I guess I took your argument wrong. I thought you were trying to say that she faces more criticism of this because she is a woman and you were using the search results for your basis. My point was more that I don't think the google results would have any indication of if she faces more criticism than most for this, strictly because she is the main character of one of the largest movies/franchises out there today. Superman is way worse in my eyes, but all those movies combined probably don't match TFA, so I wouldn't expect as much criticism on it, especially with him being an established character already (FYI, I now know there is a Gary Stu name to pay attention for as well, another thing I never knew about). I think this criticism is ridiculous, but I also would expect to see it more often than for any other characters or movies.
 

rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
When articles like this exist I wouldn’t be surprised if a male protagonist with the same characteristics as Rey caused a good amount of backlash.
https://www.newsweek.com/jedi-fallen-order-main-character-male-protagonist-rey-1448158

You’d have us complaining about why the character is so powerful plus weirdos like the writer of this article who claim to be progressive but clearly just have something against men, especially if they’re white.
My apologies, but I don't totally follow what you're trying to say. Reading that article seems to reinforce the notion that there is a different standard for female characters. Or at least there can only be so many.

I guess I took your argument wrong. I thought you were trying to say that she faces more criticism of this because she is a woman and you were using the search results for your basis. My point was more that I don't think the google results would have any indication of if she faces more criticism than most for this, strictly because she is the main character of one of the largest movies/franchises out there today. Superman is way worse in my eyes, but all those movies combined probably don't match TFA, so I wouldn't expect as much criticism on it, especially with him being an established character already (FYI, I now know there is a Gary Stu name to pay attention for as well, another thing I never knew about). I think this criticism is ridiculous, but I also would expect to see it more often than for any other characters or movies.
I dunno. Once folks lob the Mary Sue criticism at Rey it's hard not to think that it's at least in part because she is a female character. So, yes, that would seem to indicate that she does face more criticism because she is a woman. (I was just using the google results as an example of how common the criticism is.) Whether the same "too perfect" criticisms would befall the same character who was a man is impossible to determine. I don't think it would and was throwing out a couple reasons, but it's all conjecture.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
My apologies, but I don't totally follow what you're trying to say. Reading that article seems to reinforce the notion that there is a different standard for female characters. Or at least there can only be so many.
I only picked one article for convenience’s sake but when this game was revealed there were a good amount of complaints of “wow, another white guy. How boring.” To me it was just ludicrous. Male characters do get similar complaints these days.
 

mnelson3

Well-Known Member
I’ve been hearing some things about the final act of the movie, and that there were significant cuts from what George had wanted, which sounded really awesome like a lightsaber battle with Palpatine, etc. Now I think it will just be a brief battle with Palpatine with Rey blocking his force lightning and reflecting it back at Palpatine, quickly destroying him. Sounds like we are going to end up with a very watered down version of the movie compared to what it could have been and should be and what the fans want. No doubt Disney is trying to cater to “all audiences” 🙄. Likely why the last to films stunk. I’d love for the rumors I heard to be all wrong though and for Ep. 9 to be everything Star Wars fans want and then some! But it’s not sounding promising.
 

Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
It's not my comparison that makes it a female thing. Mary Sue is a female thing that has sometimes been applied to male characters. As Mike pointed out, Superman has been hit with the complaint as well. He's had three movies in the last six years and about 75 years of existence before that. Obviously google results are not the scientific method; I was mostly noting the sheer volume to indicate that it wasn't an obscure criticism of the Rey character.



The argument the original poster made was that Rey gets cut slack because she is a woman and would be criticized more as a man. I don't agree and I think she has received ample criticism already. One of the major criticisms is that she is a Mary Sue - a too-perfect female character. (And, yes, I have seen it for Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel too, though not to same degree.)
To be honest, it didn't matter if Rey was female or male, i think her powers come from the fact that the writers and directors feel like they have to keep pushing the envelope. Each movie has to show more action and more force abilities. I remember in one of the documentaries from the prequels, they were talking about how with each progressing movie, the fighting had to be elevated. I believe it's the same principle with Reys force powers.. if Luke and the original trilogy were made today, I bet his abilities would have been elevated as well. This is an action oriented movie society and they need to keep with with our attention spans.
I don't agree with the need to keep pushing the envelope, I think good storytelling is the way to go. Empire had a better physical fight, ROTJ had a more emotional fight and people seem to like that one better.
 

rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
To be honest, it didn't matter if Rey was female or male, i think her powers come from the fact that the writers and directors feel like they have to keep pushing the envelope. Each movie has to show more action and more force abilities. I remember in one of the documentaries from the prequels, they were talking about how with each progressing movie, the fighting had to be elevated. I believe it's the same principle with Reys force powers.. if Luke and the original trilogy were made today, I bet his abilities would have been elevated as well. This is an action oriented movie society and they need to keep with with our attention spans.
I don't agree with the need to keep pushing the envelope, I think good storytelling is the way to go. Empire had a better physical fight, ROTJ had a more emotional fight and people seem to like that one better.
That makes a lot of sense. I remember being surprised by both Rey and Kylo's abilities. I don't necessarily think it's a problem (humans today are bigger, faster, and stronger than they were 40 years ago), but did think it was inconsistently presented. Kylo stops a blaster shot, but struggles when fighting Rey. I guess he was hurt, but still. I thought it was better in TLJ, as it was less about their force abilities and more about the decisions they were going to make.
 
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