sshindel's Epcot Manifesto

[sshindel]

Nevermind my early rant on IASW. I'm with the new pavilion idea. And I could see it moving right out of Fantasyland with few heads rolling.

In my first cut of that idea, I had moved IaSW and CoP both to that pavilion. I don't know why I thought moving both would somehow be more plausible than moving one. I just see CoP as something in more need. It's something that doesn't fit at all in Tomorrowland. There has been rumored talk for years about removing it. It's hard to keep it current in the last scene.
If it was in a retro-themed pavilion, it wouldn't need to be. It could be put back to the "original" show, and kept as the historical artifact that it is.

IaSW still kind of fits in Fantasyland (though it's thematic fit is obviously best in World Showcase). I'd love to see them both in Epcot, I'm sure I'll see neither in Epcot, so in my imagineering, I split the difference.

 

[sshindel]

Only slightly related to Epcot.
My oldest girl just asked to watch Bill Nye the Science Guy and both girls are enthralled by it. Thank you Netflix!
1) I am beyond happy about this
2) I still think that a crazy, madcap LPS ride Bill Nye style would work really well in any pavilion, but Energy seems like the best place.

 

[Nemo14]

Only slightly related to Epcot.
My oldest girl just asked to watch Bill Nye the Science Guy and both girls are enthralled by it. Thank you Netflix!
1) I am beyond happy about this
2) I still think that a crazy, madcap LPS ride Bill Nye style would work really well in any pavilion, but Energy seems like the best place.

*may have binge-watched a few episodes last weekend...*

 

[sshindel]

*may have binge-watched a few episodes last weekend...*

I am going to continue to encourage this. I feel if I add some interesting follow ups, Mr. Nye will do the rest by being his entertaining self.

 

[Nemo14]

I am going to continue to encourage this. I feel if I add some interesting follow ups, Mr. Nye will do the rest by being his entertaining self.

I was actually looking through Netflix for something my 95 year old mother might like and found Bill Nye (I couldn't sit through another episode of Murder She Wrote). I think she liked it as much as my kids did back in the day.

 

[englanddg]

I agree so much with the music. I said this briefly last night, but it pulls such a connection. For me, I'm an outlier for remembering a lot of Epcot. I was born in 90, and while we went nearly every year through 98, Epcot was not a priority. I have very fond memories of Figment and Dreamfinder, Wonders of Life (I LOVED Body Wars.) and the music in general. I was actually surprised when I picked up a CD a year or so ago with all of the original Sherman music - and knew most of the words. Not just Veggie Veggie.

By the way, a lot of signs are pointing to Inside Out going somewhere. As to where, no idea, but if it does well (and it's merch is already doing well for a film with another two weeks until release), I can see some green lighting. I don't know if it would go more towards Imagination though.

Also, brief though - I could see taking what was Wonders of Life (the concept of life sciences) and putting it in Innoventions. Then you can still expand Space, and have room for other smaller to-dos focused on the various life sciences. Although that would eliminate Body Wars.

The did try some of that with Habit Heros...so, yeah, I can see that too.

Frankly, anything would be better than the mess that is Innoventions East right now, with half of the exhibition spaces empty or filled with PS4/Xbox's playing the latest "games"...

 

[mahnamahna101]

Epcot really needs to return to its unifying message of the past, present and future.

Future World ($1.25 billion)

Main plaza

1. Spaceship Earth gets a new voiceover by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Possibly Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking. The sets/AAs get plussed, and the grand finale demonstrates how communication is crucial to a better tomorrow (tunnel to hide the descent) - $65 million
2. Innoventions East and West get plussed with demonstrations of the latest technology. Exhibits are updated every six months - $60 million ($125 million)
3. Character Spot and Mouse Gear both rethemed to the future - $50 million ($175 million)

Soarin' Around the World

1. Soarin' gets a 4th theater and a proper entrance/queue outside of The Land. The queue is themed to an air hangar. For the new ride film, on-board audio explains how the skies can improve the world for a better tomorrow. Each continent's achievements are exhibited promptly, with the finale showing Earth from outer space and depicting a message of hope. - $125 million ($300 million)

The Land

1. Rainforest Rush - in an effort to conserve the rainforest, explorers race to fend off arsonists. Utilizing the shoot 'em up concept with a suspended coaster system, this attraction reinforces the necessity of protecting the environments we have been given - $150 million ($450 million), 42"
2. Circle of Life gets a mild update - $25 million ($475 million)
3. Living With the Land gets a massive upgrade/expansion - $75 million ($550 million)

Weather Institute

1. Operation: STORM (trackless dark ride. This 15 minute adventure involves a tour of the Weather Institute. Guests are taught the science behind weather and how technology will soon improve our abilities to handle intense weather situations. However, a massive storm has accidentally been released by the scientists in the artificial environment. The RVs randomly 'travel' as guests first-hand experience a tornado, a hurricane, a 'sandstorm', hail and an earthquake) - no height requirement, but those under the age of 7 should refrain from riding due to the intensity of the finale. - $300 million. An interactive Weather Tracking center is included in the post-show. ($850 million)

The Seas

1. Finding Nemo is removed except for Turtle Talk. In its place, a sea captain takes guests on a voyage to uncover the necessity of preserving the ocean for future use. Actual aquariums and seaside environments adorn this ride, as the screens and un-educational value of Nemo have been removed. - $125 million ($975 million)

Imagination

1. Journey to Imagination is revamped to something akin to its original glory - mainly to highlight the importance of imagination to make a bright future a reality. Actual sets/AAs return, One Little Spark is performed, the cut show scenes return - $150 million ($1.125 billion)
2. ImageWorks gets its top level again - $25 million ($1.150 billion)
3. Captain EO gets a facade update - $25 million ($1.175 billion)

Energy

1. The ride experience is updated primarily to be more interactive and involving. Elaborate sets and dioramas surround the slow-moving theater RVs rather than the bland screening rooms. 360 degree screens fill in the empty spaces to make the ride feel more layered. The dinosaur sequence is revamped to be more lively, while the information within the ride is rendered more relevant to the necessity of preserving energy. Bill Nye can still host - $150 million ($1.325 billion)

The Mind

1. Adventures Through Inner Space (a revamped E.T. Adventure-esque version of the Disneyland classic. This takes us on a voyage through the human body and its anatomy. Through this understanding, man can cure disease and develop the tools necessary to make human existence pleasant. The finale incorporates a 'surge') - 34" height requirement due to larger RVs and slight drops. ($1.55 billion)
2. Inside and Out: The Mind (similar to Cranium Command, but updated to include the characters from Inside Out) - $75 million ($1.625 billion)

Mission Space

1. Updated ride film with randomized sequences, Choose Your Own Adventure-esque storytelling and more interactivity - $75 million ($1.7 billion)

Carousel of Progress

1. A tribute to our past and an idealized view of where we may head. This is relocated from Tomorrowland. - $75 million ($1.775 billion)

World of Motion (pavillion)

1. Jr. Autopia is added next to Test Track for the little ones. Throughout the ride, the importance of safe and efficient driving and transportation is communicated by on-board audio and small show scenes - $100 million ($1.875 billion)

It's a Small World

1. The Odyssey restaurant is bulldozed for a relocated, grand upgrade of IASW. AAs are brand-new, sets are brand-new, but the message of peace remains - $200 million ($2.075 billion)

Just to truly fix Future World costs $2 billion roughly. World Showcase isn't as bad. $1-1.25 billion would make it phenomenal once more.

 

[sshindel]

Epcot really needs to return to its unifying message of the past, present and future.

Future World ($1.25 billion)

Main plaza

1. Spaceship Earth gets a new voiceover by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Possibly Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking. The sets/AAs get plussed, and the grand finale demonstrates how communication is crucial to a better tomorrow (tunnel to hide the descent) - $65 million
2. Innoventions East and West get plussed with demonstrations of the latest technology. Exhibits are updated every six months - $60 million ($125 million)
3. Character Spot and Mouse Gear both rethemed to the future - $50 million ($175 million)

Soarin' Around the World

1. Soarin' gets a 4th theater and a proper entrance/queue outside of The Land. The queue is themed to an air hangar. For the new ride film, on-board audio explains how the skies can improve the world for a better tomorrow. Each continent's achievements are exhibited promptly, with the finale showing Earth from outer space and depicting a message of hope. - $125 million ($300 million)

The Land

1. Rainforest Rush - in an effort to conserve the rainforest, explorers race to fend off arsonists. Utilizing the shoot 'em up concept with a suspended coaster system, this attraction reinforces the necessity of protecting the environments we have been given - $150 million ($450 million), 42"
2. Circle of Life gets a mild update - $25 million ($475 million)
3. Living With the Land gets a massive upgrade/expansion - $75 million ($550 million)

Weather Institute

1. Operation: STORM (trackless dark ride. This 15 minute adventure involves a tour of the Weather Institute. Guests are taught the science behind weather and how technology will soon improve our abilities to handle intense weather situations. However, a massive storm has accidentally been released by the scientists in the artificial environment. The RVs randomly 'travel' as guests first-hand experience a tornado, a hurricane, a 'sandstorm', hail and an earthquake) - no height requirement, but those under the age of 7 should refrain from riding due to the intensity of the finale. - $300 million. An interactive Weather Tracking center is included in the post-show. ($850 million)

The Seas

1. Finding Nemo is removed except for Turtle Talk. In its place, a sea captain takes guests on a voyage to uncover the necessity of preserving the ocean for future use. Actual aquariums and seaside environments adorn this ride, as the screens and un-educational value of Nemo have been removed. - $125 million ($975 million)

Imagination

1. Journey to Imagination is revamped to something akin to its original glory - mainly to highlight the importance of imagination to make a bright future a reality. Actual sets/AAs return, One Little Spark is performed, the cut show scenes return - $150 million ($1.125 billion)
2. ImageWorks gets its top level again - $25 million ($1.150 billion)
3. Captain EO gets a facade update - $25 million ($1.175 billion)

Energy

1. The ride experience is updated primarily to be more interactive and involving. Elaborate sets and dioramas surround the slow-moving theater RVs rather than the bland screening rooms. 360 degree screens fill in the empty spaces to make the ride feel more layered. The dinosaur sequence is revamped to be more lively, while the information within the ride is rendered more relevant to the necessity of preserving energy. Bill Nye can still host - $150 million ($1.325 billion)

The Mind

1. Adventures Through Inner Space (a revamped E.T. Adventure-esque version of the Disneyland classic. This takes us on a voyage through the human body and its anatomy. Through this understanding, man can cure disease and develop the tools necessary to make human existence pleasant. The finale incorporates a 'surge') - 34" height requirement due to larger RVs and slight drops. ($1.55 billion)
2. Inside and Out: The Mind (similar to Cranium Command, but updated to include the characters from Inside Out) - $75 million ($1.625 billion)

Mission Space

1. Updated ride film with randomized sequences, Choose Your Own Adventure-esque storytelling and more interactivity - $75 million ($1.7 billion)

Carousel of Progress

1. A tribute to our past and an idealized view of where we may head. This is relocated from Tomorrowland. - $75 million ($1.775 billion)

World of Motion (pavillion)

1. Jr. Autopia is added next to Test Track for the little ones. Throughout the ride, the importance of safe and efficient driving and transportation is communicated by on-board audio and small show scenes - $100 million ($1.875 billion)

It's a Small World

1. The Odyssey restaurant is bulldozed for a relocated, grand upgrade of IASW. AAs are brand-new, sets are brand-new, but the message of peace remains - $200 million ($2.075 billion)

Just to truly fix Future World costs $2 billion roughly. World Showcase isn't as bad. $1-1.25 billion would make it phenomenal once more.

I really have no idea how to estimate cost on anything I've proposed.
My best guess is "too much".

 

[Nemo14]

I really have no idea how to estimate cost on anything I've proposed.
My best guess is "too much".

but it would justify the proposed ticket prices...

 

[mahnamahna101]

I really have no idea how to estimate cost on anything I've proposed.
My best guess is "too much".

Yeah in order to fix everything, it would take roughly $3.5-4 billion.

When MK needs $750 million, AK needs $1 billion, and DHS needs $1.5-2 billion, Epcot would have to settle for $1-1.5 billion initially.

 

[Nemo14]

Yeah in order to fix everything, it would take roughly $3.5-4 billion.

When MK needs $750 million, AK needs $1 billion, and DHS needs $1.5-2 billion, Epcot would have to settle for $1-1.5 billion initially.

but don't forget Iger's bonus...

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I think the descending portion of Spaceship Earth is a perfect metaphor for what's wrong with WDW in general. Everything is now for the children. The powers that be are so terrified of any child being bored (a natural part of growing up) that they constantly have to throw in toys, something for the hands. Instead of letting a ride wash over you, and maybe even go over your head intellectually, inviting you to return later, it's instant gratification...here's something to play with...here's your goody bag...thanks parents, kindly step this way towards the gift shop.

Im missing something what's wrong with the desending portion? You mean with the pictures and all? I always looked at as a subtle nod to Horizons with giving you choices

 

[sshindel]

Im missing something what's wrong with the desending portion? You mean with the pictures and all? I always looked at as a subtle nod to Horizons with giving you choices

@marni1971 can likely give a full explanation of it, but in a few words, they tore out everything that existed in the descent for the 2007 redo, and basically left it in a shambles, unfinished walls and all. If they did this because they knew they were adding screens so "no one would be looking at the walls", or if they added the screens as a relatively cheaper option than actually finishing the descent, I'm not sure.

 

[marni1971]

Im missing something what's wrong with the desending portion? You mean with the pictures and all? I always looked at as a subtle nod to Horizons with giving you choices

They ran out of time and money.

The original plan was a recap of everything seen previously in between the in car screen displays.

Hence the waste of space that exists today. Some of the 94 version was ripped out. Some just left intact and hidden.

Since late 2007 more star curtains and more (infamous) triangles have been added to try to disguise it.

 

[EnergyKing]

Im missing something what's wrong with the desending portion? You mean with the pictures and all? I always looked at as a subtle nod to Horizons with giving you choices

For me it's tonally inconsistent with the rest of the ride; it goes from awe-inspiring and transcendent to silly and throwaway. The last thing I need to see on SE is my own face, bloated with vacation weight. Horizons did much better at whatever SE is trying to do there.

 

[sshindel]

For me it's tonally inconsistent with the rest of the ride; it goes from awe-inspiring and transcendent to silly and throwaway. The last thing I need to see on SE is my own face, bloated with vacation weight. Horizons did much better at whatever SE is trying to do there.

I agree with this. I feel that the descent completely kills the story and momentum of the rest of the ride. It's exactly what you said. It goes from grand to silly. It may be fun to see a poor picture of yourself in animation, and most people probably don't even notice the transition, but under it all, it totally undercuts the entire rest of the pavilion. The story is built in such a way throughout the rest of the ride that builds to that climax at the peak. But instead of reinforcing the message, instead of expanding upon the idea that we, all of us on the planet, are one human race, working together through communication to build the future, we're instead thrown into a silly little thing basically putting a terrible photo of us on the head of the Jetsons intro. It has no relation to the rest of the ride, the rest of the park, or anything else. Heck, it would be more tied into the message if it just told us all to whip out our cell phones and tweet #SpaceshipEarth. Oh god, I said it out loud and now it'll happen. It'll just be a bunch of people's tweets and selfies on the little screens with hashtags. Ugh, why did I do that?
Even with just coming down to various lights and colors listening to Tomorrow's Child, this underlined and reinforced the message of the pavilion. The music helped give an emotional connection to the message of the rest of the pavilion. It tied all of the stories told through the wonderful AA work and set pieces, it gave an underlying message of hope, and the music helped stimulate another part of the brain that helped form that emotional bond to the message.
I'm telling you. The impact of SSE is as much in the flow, the gradual build to that moment in the top, the script and score coming together in perfect timing to greet our Spaceship Earth, and then the descent which underscores the message. I don't feel the current narration hits that note correctly, and I REALLY don't feel that the descent does what it should do. It does the exact opposite. It turns what could be a moving experience into one that might be classified in the best terms as "well, that was fun".

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I agree with this. I feel that the descent completely kills the story and momentum of the rest of the ride. It's exactly what you said. It goes from grand to silly. It may be fun to see a poor picture of yourself in animation, and most people probably don't even notice the transition, but under it all, it totally undercuts the entire rest of the pavilion. The story is built in such a way throughout the rest of the ride that builds to that climax at the peak. But instead of reinforcing the message, instead of expanding upon the idea that we, all of us on the planet, are one human race, working together through communication to build the future, we're instead thrown into a silly little thing basically putting a terrible photo of us on the head of the Jetsons intro. It has no relation to the rest of the ride, the rest of the park, or anything else. Heck, it would be more tied into the message if it just told us all to whip out our cell phones and tweet #SpaceshipEarth. Oh god, I said it out loud and now it'll happen. It'll just be a bunch of people's tweets and selfies on the little screens with hashtags. Ugh, why did I do that?
Even with just coming down to various lights and colors listening to Tomorrow's Child, this underlined and reinforced the message of the pavilion. The music helped give an emotional connection to the message of the rest of the pavilion. It tied all of the stories told through the wonderful AA work and set pieces, it gave an underlying message of hope, and the music helped stimulate another part of the brain that helped form that emotional bond to the message.
I'm telling you. The impact of SSE is as much in the flow, the gradual build to that moment in the top, the script and score coming together in perfect timing to greet our Spaceship Earth, and then the descent which underscores the message. I don't feel the current narration hits that note correctly, and I REALLY don't feel that the descent does what it should do. It does the exact opposite. It turns what could be a moving experience into one that might be classified in the best terms as "well, that was fun".

I don't mind the picture but the animation and what they actually do with it is a bit disappointing especially when compared to Horizons.

 

[sshindel]

I don't mind the picture but the animation and what they actually do with it is a bit disappointing especially when compared to Horizons.

IMO, pretty much anything is disappointing when comparing it to Horizons.

 

[rsoxguy]

Ooo...information from the Premium Member's Lounge. I feel privileged and all tingly inside.

 

[Nemo14]

Ooo...information from the Premium Member's Lounge. I feel privileged and all tingly inside.

Neah - that's just the chili you had yesterday talking.