sshindel's Epcot Manifesto

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Original Poster
With the rumor mill buzzing that some of a rumored massive budget actually going towards something at Epcot, and everyone's assumption that Inside Out to Imagination is happening. I felt that it would be a good time to add my initial thoughts on this idea to my manifesto.

As I've mentioned previously in this manifesto, I'm not 100% opposed to adding characters to Future World. I am however 100% opposed to poorly adding characters to Future World. Based on what we've seen with Nemo, and what it seems like we're getting with Frozen, it does not give me high hopes.

The thing though is that Inside Out is a really good match for Epcot. While it's not a perfect representation of how the brain works, there is a lot that they did get right in terms of modern study into the mind. The fact that they took the time to actually try and make the film make sense from an emotional, story, and scientific perspective shows the kinds of care that was once given to Epcot.

Inside Out was a spectacular film. I need to rewatch it a little more, but it's currently up at the top of the Pixar pantheon for me. I love the film deeply already. It was so well done it really shows what the medium is capable of.

I just think that the tie to Imagination is less strong than it would be as the cornerstone of a rebuilt Wonders of Life. Imagination Land was a great, small part of the film. There is so much more that can/should be explored with this film. It is a great gateway to exploring what we know about how the mind works. I just feel that picking Imagination Land and forcing it to be the focus of an entire pavilion feels more like Nemo than it does the kind of experience that Epcot and the Imagination pavilion deserves. I still hold onto the wonder of the original pavilion as a perfect representation of what this pavilion could be. It didn't need an IP, and it didn't need to take an IP that would be much better suited elsewhere. It's like the Frozen argument. Sure, Frozen needs to be represented in WDW. It just should be done elsewhere. Fantasyland. It should be done well, with a budget matching it's popularity and quality.

Of course, this is all speculation. It could turn out fantastic. It could be well designed, well executed, and more likely than not, it's gotta be better than the Imagination Institute. If they wanted to change Imagination into a Neuroscience pavilion, I'd be all aboard on it. I love that stuff.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
I'm all for it. As long as it's true to Figment and Dreamfinder. The shell that Figment is on the current attraction, Ugh...
I've always seen the current ride as a placeholder built around a single joke: That JIYI sucked. Then the joke just got staler and staler as time went on.

It's clear that there's a desire within Imagineering to make things truly right again at the pavilion, but it keeps getting sidelined. Nemo ate up the budget for another Imagination redo. Supposedly Frozen Norway did the same thing just recently. And after years of stringing us along with merch and D23 appearances and the comic that's been the most successful thing to come out of Imagineering's Kingdoms side-project with Marvel, it'd be horribly cruel to sideline them completely. At that point, I'd probably be done with Epcot all together.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Original Poster
I've always seen the current ride as a placeholder built around a single joke: That JIYI sucked. Then the joke just got staler and staler as time went on.

It's clear that there's a desire within Imagineering to make things truly right again at the pavilion, but it keeps getting sidelined. Nemo ate up the budget for another Imagination redo. Supposedly Frozen Norway did the same thing just recently. And after years of stringing us along with merch and D23 appearances and the comic that's been the most successful thing to come out of Imagineering's Kingdoms side-project with Marvel, it'd be horribly cruel to sideline them completely. At that point, I'd probably be done with Epcot all together.
That will be me if they ever close down LwtL. They're already really close to losing me altogether, but that would be the nail in the coffin.
 

Haymarket2008

Well-Known Member
I've always seen the current ride as a placeholder built around a single joke: That JIYI sucked. Then the joke just got staler and staler as time went on.

It's clear that there's a desire within Imagineering to make things truly right again at the pavilion, but it keeps getting sidelined. Nemo ate up the budget for another Imagination redo. Supposedly Frozen Norway did the same thing just recently. And after years of stringing us along with merch and D23 appearances and the comic that's been the most successful thing to come out of Imagineering's Kingdoms side-project with Marvel, it'd be horribly cruel to sideline them completely. At that point, I'd probably be done with Epcot all together.

100% yes.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
It's clear that there's a desire within Imagineering to make things truly right again at the pavilion, but it keeps getting sidelined. Nemo ate up the budget for another Imagination redo. Supposedly Frozen Norway did the same thing just recently. And after years of stringing us along with merch and D23 appearances and the comic that's been the most successful thing to come out of Imagineering's Kingdoms side-project with Marvel, it'd be horribly cruel to sideline them completely. At that point, I'd probably be done with Epcot all together.

As if we all needed another reason to hate the Frozen thing.

I think all the Dreamfinder merchandise is their way of saying, "We know we messed up. We don't know when Dreamfinder will be back, but in the meantime have him on a t-shirt".
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Original Poster
As if we all needed another reason to hate the Frozen thing.

I think all the Dreamfinder merchandise is their way of saying, "We know we messed up. We don't know when Dreamfinder will be back, but in the meantime have him on a t-shirt".
Sadly I think it's ^ "We don't know IF Dreamfinder will be back, but in the meantime, we know you'll spend money on this so..."
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Original Poster


Bumping with Glen Keane demonstrating something I'd love to see in a re-imagined ImageWorks.

This is freaking amazing to watch.
I can actually picture it in ImageWorks. I can see it as kind of an instructor lead demonstration, where he drew something quick, then people from the crowd got the chance to draw. Maybe with some other kiosks behind him. Sort of a mix between the School of Drama and Making Faces
imageworkstheater2.jpg

imageworks.jpg


This is exactly the kind of thing that should be in ImageWorks, thank you so much for posting this!
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Original Poster
This reminds me. I had a bit more idea of how a potential Universe of Energy attraction could be handled. Maybe if I get some time this afternoon, I'll try and flesh it out a little in here.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Original Poster
In order to keep in line with my title on here, but try and not break the Terms of Use, let me not promote an external website, but say if you were to go out and search for the words "Epcot" and "manifesto" on google, Twitter, or Facebook you might find a place that will contain ongoing and updated versions of this content, plus other things occasionally.
Just sayin... :cautious:
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Editor's note
The following is a slightly modified version of a thread written in the Premium Members Lounge. I will be modifying it slightly not to change content, but because I don't want to cut and paste side-conversations with people who may or may not want me posting their content. The rest will be fairly straight cut and pasted from stuff I've written already, and hopefully, from there we can get into some really interesting conversations. I wonder how long this thread will live before it's locked away, and I am as well.

Editor's note part deux: This sucker is long. I will likely try and edit and paste a few large posts at a time. It may have fits and starts for a while, as new responsibilities at work are making it harder to post during business hours :)

Back in March one random night when my wife had book club at our house, which sounds a lot more like wine club to an untrained ear like myself, I started this thing. I've been talking about writing a manifesto about Epcot for years as a joke. A few beers into the night, I popped open a new thread in the PML and just started going. This thread has been an evolving thing. It's started as comments in various threads, which turned into a PM conversation, which turned into a PML thread, which is now turning into another thread. Next stop, lifestyler blog and free Disney swag!!! :cautious: Well, tonight she's at book club again, somehow at a sushi restaurant. Must be a book based in Japan and the women all want to really get into the mood to talk literature!

Question: Wait, you mean you really are going to write a manifesto? It wasn't a joke?

Well, it started off as a joke. In fact, a few months ago, it still was a joke. An odd confluence of events started this in motion.

First, well, there was Norway. I don't think I have to explain that one (yet). That was a long time ago (in forum years). A group of us WDWMagic-ers actually somehow ended up being at WDW, at Epcot, on the last day of Maelstrom. This was pure happenstance, a trip booked months upon months in advance to run the ToT 10 miler.

Then, a good and honest question in a PM from @flyerjab asked to @George and I started me thinking more about Epcot again. Don't blame him though. I would have made it out of that extremely good conversation alive.

Then there was a random post asking about why all the good theme songs seemed to be gone from Epcot.

Then the rumor about closing Innoventions West. Next thing I know, I'm listening to the Epcot Entrance Area loop from 1982 marking down the timepoints that different pieces of attraction theme music are woven into the loop. A few hours later, I'm posting a massive Imagineering idea in the PML. Then here comes the manifesto train chugging into the station! Choo Choo Choo.
Today, some Epcot conversation in a different thread made me decide I wanted to put this out where people can read it, and then decide for themselves if they ever want to read or trust a comment from me again.

Question: Why are you referring to this as a manifesto?
As you can tell from this here opening post, I like to type a lot. Words upon Words. Less is not more for me.

Also, I couldn't call it anything else really. It isn't really organized. I get side tracked. Hopefully, some honest conversation among friends will happen, and will lead me in different directions. I'm also not a historian. I'm sure @marni1971 would/will be able to come in here and correct somewhere around a million mistakes that I'll make. I may do a little google fu if I really want to back up a point, but a lot of what I'm going to say here is/was off the cuff, based on my experiences, feelings, thoughts, ramblings, etc.

Question: Do I really have to read this? Just go to Disney and shut up.
Point taken. My feelings will not be hurt in the slightest if you ignore this, disagree with this, laugh at me behind my back, to my face, talk about me in PMs or in other threads. A lot of my rambling has been therapeutic in some strange way.

Question: Wont this intro ever end? This is longer than Ellen's Energy Adventure and much more boring.

Ok, without further ado, let the crazy begin!

Editor's note: I'm adding links to a bit of a "table of contents", so when you get overwhelmed by a wall of text, you can easily jump around.

Background
The Mission of Epcot Center
Soarin'
The Living Seas
Universe of Energy
Journey into Imagination
Communicore / Innoventions
Horizons
Mission:Space
The Land / Kitchen Kabaret
Urban Green
Spaceship Earth
Spaceship Earth cont ... The Pale Blue Dot
World of Motion / Test Track
Wonders of Life
Epcot Music
Hatin' on Festivals
Bad The Seas Concept Art Teaser
The start of the Imagineering
Festival Space in World Showcase
Where to put it
Inspirations for the festival space
You want to move WHAT?
Outdoor event space
Historical ties
Rounding out the pavilion
Wrapping up the Festival Space
A note on the above
A quick recap
Quick sidebar on the Mission
Updated Wonders of Life
Innoventions and the Urban Oasis
The Imagination Compromise
The Land
The Seas
Another Recap
Universe of Energy
Some odds and ends
Thoughts on the Sponsor model
Does Epcot have to be for "everybody"?
I just read this updated intro post. Good job! I guess since the last time you updated this post was July, I'm waaaay behind
 

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