sshindel's Epcot Manifesto

[rsoxguy]

Neah - that's just the chili you had yesterday talking.

Um, I think that it "talks" in other ways.

 

[Nemo14]

Um, I think that it "talks" in other ways.

I was trying to be nice - turning over a new leaf and all that...

 

[sshindel]

Ooo...information from the Premium Member's Lounge. I feel privileged and all tingly inside.

I cut out all the badmouthing and gossiping we do obviously. And the secret plans to take over the world.

 

[sshindel]

I had to take one of those StrenghtFinder assessments for work. Part of one of the descriptions in my top 5 strengths made me guffaw thinking about this thread:

But what is certain is that you enjoy bringing things back to life. It is a wonderful feeling to identify the undermining factor(s), eradicate them, and restore something to its true glory.
Intuitively, you know that without your intervention, this thing—this machine, this technique, this
person, this company—might have ceased to function. You fixed it, resuscitated it, rekindled its
vitality. Phrasing it the way you might, you saved it.

Pretty much explains everything right there.

 

[Prog]

I love this manifesto. But how do we make it reality?

 

[sshindel]

I love this manifesto. But how do we make it reality?

If I knew that, I wouldn't have time to write it, I'd be doing whatever it took to make it happen!

 

[morningstar]

Editor's note: The following is three quick posts I had made within a short amount of time as I brainstormed, consolidated here for ease of reading.

I need to figure out how long the descent to SSE actually is. I'm now semi-convinced that playing Sagan's Pale Blue Dot speech would be the perfect thing for the entire descent.



It's looking like 5-6 minutes, based on the 2007 audio and the length of Tomorrow's Child.

So, what we do is we set up the clip a little. As we start the descent, we take on the role of Voyager.
Starting when we turn around, we're faced with the Earth.

We then progress backwards, getting farther away from Earth as we do. We pass the moon, we pass Mars, the asteroid belt, Jupiter, etc...

If we can have one consistent view of the Earth as we go backwards, that would be best. Maybe we still need my constant video screen. This takes 2-3 minutes. Music soundtrack, some of the narration script continues to set up the shot.

When we reach Saturn, we pass through the rings and freeze frame on the classic Pale Blue Dot picture, or if we wanted for effect, the one that Cassini took:

Then we queue Sagan's speech.

Plus, telling Ann Druyan that we're going to use Carl's speech would be a great way to get her on board to write the script.

Ohhh.... Maybe we can incorporate her work on Voyager's golden record in the 2-3 minute intro. Sounds from the golden record playing while the script describes it's purpose, to try and communicate with any intelligent life that might encounter Voyager. Communications outside of our Spaceship Earth!

What about playing clips of significant events in reverse chronological order, as if we're going back in time because of the propagation of the signals at the speed of light as we recede from Earth. It's been done in some movies, but it would be more effective when you feel like you're along for the ride. It also stays within the communications theme. Most of the way up has been the long, slow evolution of communications before electronics. The finale can be a whirlwind tour of electronic communications in reverse. FaceTime, the first tweet, YouTube, Napster, the first web page, e-mail, live news via satellite, the first presidential debate on TV, radio ... and then it goes silent. It would be easy to keep up to date. Any time there's a new technology or trend in communications, just add a new clip at the beginning, and edit the rest for running time.

 

[morningstar]

Let's cover the transportation pavilion first.

It's a hard one to tackle. Each iteration has had strengths and weaknesses. They have both served different messages to the public. The current version of TT can be fun, has some interesting pieces to it, and somehow still feels like it is missing something.

World of Motion was another great long dark ride. It's one that doesn't come up as often when people pine for EPCOT of old the same way that Horizons or Imagination do. I'm not sure if it was because less people held it dear, it's humor tone did not leave the same imprint, people like Test Track better, or some combination of the above.

I think what sets it apart from the other original dark rides was the sense of humor that the attraction used throughout the entire ride. The attraction was a spiritual kin to the old Goofy "The Art Of..." Series from the 40s, and Gary Ownes (of Laugh In fame, just passed away) really was a fantastic narrator. Almost every scene had Gary Owens saying a serious point about the history of transportation and the scene would have some sort of humorous outcome.

The theme song "It's Fun to be Free" was top notch. Again, I think I want to talk music later, so I'll leave that for now.

I think that what WoM brought two aspects that are missing today.
1) a focus on all transportation, not just cars
2) it's sense of humor amidst all the super serious pavilions in FW

My biggest issue with Test Track's theme is its narrow focus on cars, which is understandable given its sponsor. I do think though that the world of the future needs to rely less on cars, or traditional cars at least. A future world pavilion that basically says "come, look at a dumbed down version of what we do today while designing cars" just doesn't work for me like it should, as fun as it is to build an absolutely ridiculous car.

All that said, I can't blame GM or Disney for looking to go another direction. Epcot's long dark-ride-a-palooza just wasn't what the 90s corporate sponsor was looking for.

Test Track is a fun ride. The new build a car is fun. The fast part outside is oddly fun, seeing as how it's basically driving under the speed limit. It's all ok. I think that the integration of your "designed" car into the ride itself is poorly done. I know what it's supposed to do and most of the time can't really see how I did. The people I've been with who didn't know about it had no clue whatsoever what was going on.

So it's a mixed bag. WoM was great, but I understand why it's gone.

Test Track is not quite great, but I know why it's not going anywhere.

While I'd prefer a switch either to a general transportation theme, or a partnership with a company focused on future auto technology (Tesla, Google Self Driving Cars, etc) I just don't see it happening.

So when I get around to building out my plan for the future, I don't expect to change much here. I just hope to find a way to bring this ride up to its potential.

You left out the WoM post-show. While the ride did a relatively poor job at being inspirational, the post-show was one of the best. There were models of all kinds of exotic vehicles, like a floating hotel and a car that tilted around corners like a motorcycle. The GM-EV was there too - a future that became a reality - and then GM killed that future.

The current post-show is an auto dealership showroom.

 

[sshindel]

You left out the WoM post-show. While the ride did a relatively poor job at being inspirational, the post-show was one of the best. There were models of all kinds of exotic vehicles, like a floating hotel and a car that tilted around corners like a motorcycle. The GM-EV was there too - a future that became a reality - and then GM killed that future.

The current post-show is an auto dealership showroom.

I think I touched on it in a WAY later post, but honestly I felt that the post show even back in the day was a glorified car sales room. I know that some of that is my bias, I never cared a lick about cars, still don't. They are all basically the same to me, and it's always been the case. That is likely why I can barely remember anything in that post-show other than some of the robotics, and the section that had the car-lot.
So, I likely missed some good stuff back then. It wouldn't surprise me. I think that both versions of the post-show should offer so much more!

 

[morningstar]

Ok, Lets start with the biggie. I've ranted and railed about Epcot of today not holding up to the original mission of EPCOT Center. I've had questions about what I mean about it.

Stating the obvious, the EPCOT Center that opened in '82 is not what Walt had announced back in '67 (I think that was the year). His idea was an actual community, but one where both people and industry lived and worked together. Companies side by side, working on solving the problems of the future. City planning, transportation, medicine, etc. He wanted to build a utopia, something like a community living together on one of those crazy Google campuses out in Silicon Valley, but with more emphasis on urban planning and whatnot.

Here's a good Walt quote that speaks to his vision that I pulled off my book "Walt Disney's EPCOT Center: Creating the New World of Tomorrow"

EPCOT will be an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow that will take it's cue from the new ideas and new technologies that are now emerging from the creative centers of American industry. It will be a community of tomorrow that will never be completed, but will always be introducing and testing and demonstrating new materials and systems. And Epcot will be a showcase to the world for the ingenuity and imagination of American free enterprise
--Walt Disney​

Now, that was not what the company decided to move forward with in '75 after Walt's death when they decided to revive the plans for EPCOT Center. Gone was the actual community, but they wanted to keep as much of the spirit of industry involved as possible.

I'm no EPCOT historian, really. What I can reference really that speak to what they were trying to achieve I think I can pull from 2 places.

First quote comes from the dedication of EPCOT by E. Card Walker:

To all who come to this Place of Joy, Hope and Friendship
WELCOME

Epcot is inspired by Walt Disney's creative vision. Here, human achievements are celebrated through imagination, wonders of enterprise and concepts of a future that promises new and exciting benefits for all.

May EPCOT Center entertain, inform and inspire and, above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere.

E. Cardon Walker
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Walt Disney Productions
October 24, 1982​

The other quote I fall back upon is one of my favorites. It's from that Walt Disney's EPCOT book I quoted from Walt earlier. It was put out by Disney at the same time Epcot was opened as a kind of publicity book, and it's filled with construction pictures, concept art, and it was put out before a few of the major pavilions were even completed. Horizons is spoken of in the future tense. There is a whole section devoted to the soon to be built "Africa" pavilion in the World Showcase. Anyway, the quote:

While entertainment will continue to be a highly visible attraction at Epcot Center, it is the underlying educational value of Future World that is it's most important contribution. Exciting, amusing, and fascinating as each pavilion is in itself, it is but an element of a project that may well be viewed as a springboard to our discovery of new worlds​

All lofty speak, I know.

The thing is, I didn't know any of this growing up. Heck, it wasn't until I found these here WDWMagic forums that I really looked into any of the above. But I knew all of these things. Not by ever reading the books or memorizing the quotes, but that is how Epcot felt. It dripped out of every pour of the park. It was apparent from the entrance to the exit. The whole park seemed to work together in concert that screamed that this was no ordinary theme park, it had a purpose. It felt (to me at least) that this was important, and that the future was going to be built by those of us where were visiting. I have no question that Epcot was a major player in my interest in the sciences, and was likely what drove me towards computer science as a major in college.

The topics it covered: The oceans, the earth, energy, transportation, communications, (later) the body. They all seemed like they were the pillars that were important to the future. There were two other pavilions though, and they always felt like they were the most important ones. Horizons, which was the future, and Imagination, which I felt was the linchpin. I know that at one point I went through the scripts of each original pavilion and noted multiple references to "dream" and "future" throughout them all. Both of those pavilions were among the favorite of most Epcot fanbois, and it was because they were truly something special.

Most of the old pavilions fell into a similar format. Through knowledge gained by understanding the history of a technology, and through the dreams we have for the future, we can work together to accomplish anything.

This brings me to something I wrote a while ago that I wanted to add in here and maybe expand upon:

EPCOT Center's Future World was not about "Here's the future, come look at it". Not really. Sure, there were attractions that presented the future (RIP Horizons), but Future World was about inspiring people to help build the future.

Yes, by the mid-90s much of Future World was outdated, and it's hard to remain on the bleeding edge of technology that is moving at such a rapid pace. But that was never the point! Update/remove/replace, it doesn't matter, but what Disney has done is remove what made the original place so special to people, and that is the feeling that we're all in this together, and that it's part of our mission, every one of us, to build the future. It wasn't "Hey, look at what the smart people at <insert corporation> are doing to build the future for you."

"If we can dream it, we can do it."

"Tomorrow's Child -- charting a brand new new way, for the future world is born today."

"For we welcome you now to take the first steps into that future. We welcome you to The Living Seas. We welcome you to Sea Base Alpha."

"We all have sparks, imaginations.
That's how our minds, create creations.
For they can make, our wildest dreams come true.
Those magic sparks, in me and you."

"Ladies and gentlemen, General Motors now invites you to share the challenge of the future. We need you to help us shape tomorrow's mobility."

"Energy, there is no living without you,
we must keep learning about you.
Now is the time to find how to."

"The seasons come, and the seasons go,
nature knows everything it has to know.
The earth and man, can be good friends,
let's listen so our harvest time will never end."

See how everything in there is inclusive? It was what WE could do, together, to make the future better. That is one of the things that I really feel is missing today. None of the pavilions inspire me to do more. None inspire me to look more into the topic being presented. Some really don't try to do anything at all (I'm looking at you Soarin' and Nemo).

Well said. These are things that those of us who experienced the original Epcot already knew, but couldn't put in words. Hopefully, it will help Disney fans who missed it to understand. Hopefully they will demand attractions like these or even imagineer some themselves.

I think an important part of the original concept of Epcot is optimism. Some of your suggestions maybe overlook that. For example, we don't want to pretend climate change doesn't exist, but Epcot should present the solutions, not just the problem. Epcot should present the future as something we can reach if we try, not avoid if we're careful. The latter will discourage people and they'll tune out; the former will inspire them to join in. Likewise the corporate sponsorship. Rather than assume pessimistically that corporations won't participate in Epcot unless they are allowed to corrupt it, maybe give them a chance to redeem themselves.

 

[sshindel]

Well said. These are things that those of us who experienced the original Epcot already knew, but couldn't put in words. Hopefully, it will help Disney fans who missed it to understand. Hopefully they will demand attractions like these or even imagineer some themselves.

I think an important part of the original concept of Epcot is optimism. Some of your suggestions maybe overlook that. For example, we don't want to pretend climate change doesn't exist, but Epcot should present the solutions, not just the problem. Epcot should present the future as something we can reach if we try, not avoid if we're careful. The latter will discourage people and they'll tune out; the former will inspire them to join in. Likewise the corporate sponsorship. Rather than assume pessimistically that corporations won't participate in Epcot unless they are allowed to corrupt it, maybe give them a chance to redeem themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly about the optimism. I didn't touch on it in the individual ideas I had, but it is something that I intended to be there.
For climate change, we don't want to just show the devastation that might be imminent. We want to start with briefly touching the problem, but the entire experience should be about solutions, leaving us to feel empowered to help create a better future.
I should have touched on that more, but you are 100% correct that it was such a large part of what Epcot was. It built the feeling that we were the ones that were going to build a better tomorrow.

 

[sshindel]

Likewise the corporate sponsorship. Rather than assume pessimistically that corporations won't participate in Epcot unless they are allowed to corrupt it, maybe give them a chance to redeem themselves.

I forgot to respond to this piece, and it's a valid point. One which I believe that the pessimism has sadly got the best of me here. I do think that there are companies out there that could be trusted to really integrate well with Epcot, take just the right level of involvement, and actually add to the pavilion instead of handicap it. I just don't think that Disney would end up working with them. Elon Musk's suite of companies would be fantastic. I mean, in theory, he could work with the Energy pavilion, The Transportation Pavilion, and the Space pavilion. As it stands, Future World East could be "Elon Musk Presents: Future World East".

I know that there are other future-facing companies out there as well. I just see it as a really slim chance, the stars aligning all together at just the right time to get the "right" company ready to sponsor the "right" pavilion. Right now, the corporate sponsorship model is nearly dead at Epcot as it stands. We have Chevy and Siemens sponsoring full pavilions, and then what, Chiquita sponsoring LwtL? Does HP still sponsor M:S??? That is almost it, unless I'm forgetting something (which, lets be honest, I likely am).

So, in that respect, the field would be ripe and ready to go if Disney wanted to go out and really kick start a renovation of Epcot with new sponsors. I'm sure we could brainstorm great ideas that fit the themes of each pavilion. SpaceX / Tesla and Hyperloop / SolarCity and Powerwall, etc all fit well, so we could just pick one and work with it.

I just think that there are other ways we could go. We could also partner with visionary organizations, even if they are not "corporations". We've all thrown Neil DeGrasse Tyson out as a great partner for various pavilions. Bill Nye as well, either his work with the Planetary Society or his current involvement in the Energy pavilion. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation would be a good fit for the Land pavilion with their involvement in global agricultural development and water/sanitation projects. The X-Prize foundation could find itself involved in a number of pavilions. Wonders of Life could be a conglomeration of many medical science foundations.

To me, things like this would be the more interesting way to go, because those foundations (if they could be talked into spending their money), would really capture the mission and the optimism needed.

 

[sshindel]

We apologize for the inconvenience, but the Epcot Manifesto is taking a break today to post random things on the Disney Parks Blog Frozen Ever After post. Regularly scheduled ranting should resume shortly.

 

[Phineas]

Body Wars could have worked 10X better than it turned out if they had stuck to the original concept. It was supposed to be a roller coaster through the human body featuring various animatronic parts and whatnot.

What. That sounds like the most amazing thing.

To date, Body Wars is the only theme park ride to make me sick. And it almost literally destroyed me. While I know the likely reason it was scrapped ($), I can't help but feel cheated.

 

[EnergyKing]

What. That sounds like the most amazing thing.

To date, Body Wars is the only theme park ride to make me sick. And it almost literally destroyed me. While I know the likely reason it was scrapped ($), I can't help but feel cheated.

Word. That ride was like a foreshadowing to the barfbagginess of Mission Space. A coaster would've been better, probably...

 

[Phineas]

Word. That ride was like a foreshadowing to the barfbagginess of Mission Space. A coaster would've been better, probably...

Mission: Space is skipped entirely by our family for this reason. Once was enough-other than feeling like I had been punched in the face over and over while plummeting to the Earth, the overall experience just felt a little lacking, really. I'd consider doing the "Green" mission, or whatever it's called, but I wouldn't go out of my way for it either.

 

[WondersOfLife]

What. That sounds like the most amazing thing.

To date, Body Wars is the only theme park ride to make me sick. And it almost literally destroyed me. While I know the likely reason it was scrapped ($), I can't help but feel cheated.

I can understand how a lot of people got sick on this ride simply because of the blood and guts and whatnot.. My mother was one of them.

When I was little, though, I personally loved this attraction! It was so different!

 

[morningstar]

I forgot to respond to this piece, and it's a valid point. One which I believe that the pessimism has sadly got the best of me here. I do think that there are companies out there that could be trusted to really integrate well with Epcot, take just the right level of involvement, and actually add to the pavilion instead of handicap it. I just don't think that Disney would end up working with them. Elon Musk's suite of companies would be fantastic. I mean, in theory, he could work with the Energy pavilion, The Transportation Pavilion, and the Space pavilion. As it stands, Future World East could be "Elon Musk Presents: Future World East".

I know that there are other future-facing companies out there as well. I just see it as a really slim chance, the stars aligning all together at just the right time to get the "right" company ready to sponsor the "right" pavilion.

Startup-type companies are unlikely to have cash to spare to sponsor a pavilion. They are usually struggling just to get profitable. I suppose the reason the sponsorship model doesn't work these days is that the big companies aren't where the innovation is happening anymore. The heyday of Xerox PARC and Bell Labs is past.

I just think that there are other ways we could go. We could also partner with visionary organizations, even if they are not "corporations". We've all thrown Neil DeGrasse Tyson out as a great partner for various pavilions. Bill Nye as well, either his work with the Planetary Society or his current involvement in the Energy pavilion. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation would be a good fit for the Land pavilion with their involvement in global agricultural development and water/sanitation projects. The X-Prize foundation could find itself involved in a number of pavilions. Wonders of Life could be a conglomeration of many medical science foundations.

That might be it. Just to throw up our hands and say corporations are evil, and they have all the power, so we're doomed is very un-Epcot. We need to decide what institutions we're going to pin our hopes for the future on. Maybe it's nonprofits. Maybe it's government. Maybe it's universities. Let's get them to be the faces of Epcot pavilions.

Just rambling. I'm not sure any of these are viable solutions. But I think the involvement of corporations was a key part of Walt Disney's original EPCOT concept and the original park. I'm not so ready to throw it out just because big corporations have a bad name because of Enron, BP, Bear Stearns, etc.

 

[BrerJon]

Wonderful ideas, and more thought and creativity in this one thread than has happened in the last two decades in Imagineering. The power and meaning of EPCOT isn't hard to pick up on, and is contagious once you 'get it', it just boggles the mind how few people seem to understand that, and why nobody at Disney has the slightest interest in trying to do the impossible once in a while and make something like this happen.

 

[sshindel]

Wonderful ideas, and more thought and creativity in this one thread than has happened in the last two decades in Imagineering. The power and meaning of EPCOT isn't hard to pick up on, and is contagious once you 'get it', it just boggles the mind how few people seem to understand that, and why nobody at Disney has the slightest interest in trying to do the impossible once in a while and make something like this happen.

I mean, I know that this thread is all wishful thinking. I have no idea how to budget any of this, I'm sure it's massively more than anyone would really spend on a park that currently is #2 at wdw.
But again, I was drinking a few with old college friends last week and my love of Disney came up. One of the guys said "I love Epcot! All you do is drink there!"
I laughed, but it honestly hurt.