SSE Finally Getting Finished

[Hoop Raeb]

Anyway. For fun, we will set the audio to a different language, but we usually regret that decision about a minute into the ride.... :dazzle:

Ha! We just did French since we're off to DLP in a couple weeks and regretted it too. We keep the video fresh by making funny faces when the photo is taken. We made "french" faces this time to stick with the them. :hammer:

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Disney is not a museum. They change things, sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad. I always hope that they plus attractions. The Disney that you knew in 1994 is gone. It is never going to come back (and should not). The worst part of the Tiki room retro-redo is that it is giving all of the "we want the classics back" people hope.

Disney is not what it used to be, yesterday, last year, or last decade. No place on the planet is, history moves forward. I understand that you want more from the attraction, I understand that you want it plused. But wanting or expecting them to put the old thing back is futile.

Few people would disagree that something should be improved. The problem here is that SSE's 1997 descent sequence and Tiki Room UNM are generally considered downgrades, NOT a plus by any means. I'm for Disney improving an attraction, like they did with Haunted Mansion 2007-now. Or Star Tours 2, the Pooh queue. Those changes didn't have to remove any of the charm to improve the experience.

Spaceship Earth on the flip side, removed a large portion of what made the ride feel magical and immersive. Ironically, the thing they replaced this descent with intended to make the ride MORE hands on and immersive. In reality, it was poorly and cheaply designed as a way to distract you from the fact that they plastered chicken wire and weird triangles where some really cool visuals used to be. It's not the worst change that has been made to WDW by any stretch, but it's just one more issue to add to the pile.

Assuming they can improve an experience, i'm all for it. I've praised many projects which have done so. There's always people who bash something with little reasoning, but SSE's ending is one example of when it's perfectly valid to want a superior experience and when the old was genuinely better than the new (another being Imagination). This is given that they CAN improve the experience. But if all they can do is present a new way of doing things which is a massive downgrade on the original, they shouldn't change it. At this point, i would definitely welcome a return of the original descent sequence on SSE if it's all we could get. To me, and i'm sure most sane people, it goes like this-

New & Improved > Recycling >>>>> Downgraded experience.

It's still a great ride, probably one of the best at WDW (no joke). And i have to be extremely grateful that not all of Project Gemini was followed through with. Thank heavens they didn't gut SSE and put in a roller coaster like planned.:hurl:

And yes i know people will jump on me about it. I'm willing to accept that.

 

[theguitarman]

Something to consider is that this new SSE ending ties into the attractions that they have had in that area for a while. I remember back as a 10-15 years ago, how neat it was to go to a computer there, take a picture, and be able to email it to myself or a friend. That being said, yeah, that was a while ago, you would hope things would advance in that time! I don't love the ending, but I will say it is fun to get an email once in a while with a friends head pasted on a video and "watch their future".

 

[King Capybara 77]

Ha! We just did French since we're off to DLP in a couple weeks and regretted it too. We keep the video fresh by making funny faces when the photo is taken. We made "french" faces this time to stick with the them. :hammer:

I sincerely hope that you have a good time in DLP but warn you to go with no expectations... i was sorely disapointed in these parks (with a few exceptions)
the level of care by the staff was sorely lacking.hopefully you will have a great vacation and my tips are to definatly do thunder mountain,space mountain and phantom manor as these are as good as if not better than the florida ones :wave:

 

[Epcot_Imagineer]

The worst part of the Tiki room retro-redo is that it is giving all of the "we want the classics back" people hope.

You never know, maybe after all these years, Disney is finally realizing people want the good 'ol Disney attractions back.

 

[Master Yoda]

You never know, maybe after all these years, Disney is finally realizing people want the good 'ol Disney attractions back.

Or they are as nutty as the people that think we should go back to the days where people dying from measles and pertussis were common place.

 

[lebeau]

You never know, maybe after all these years, Disney is finally realizing people want the good 'ol Disney attractions back.

I imagine their impressive profits are telling them otherwise.

 

[boufa]

Few people would disagree that something should be improved. The problem here is that SSE's 1997 descent sequence and Tiki Room UNM are generally considered downgrades, NOT a plus by any means. I'm for Disney improving an attraction, like they did with Haunted Mansion 2007-now. Or Star Tours 2, the Pooh queue. Those changes didn't have to remove any of the charm to improve the experience.

There are 2 problems

1) few people are complaining. I'm not sure what the forum membership is here, but I am certain that it is very small compared to the 15 million visitors to MK last year.

2) You look at the results of a change and then criticize those who had to envision it on paper years before it was done. Not many people would argue that imaginieers are bad at their jobs or want to put out sub-par attractions. They don't sit in their offices saying "how can we screw things up today!?" You have to take the good with the bad. Not every product that every company comes up with is a winner. (New Coke comes to mind). For every few Under New Management's you get, you might end up with a soarin.

Every time someone starts a sentence with "I hope they bring back...." I cringe. Disney is timeless and has been relevant to guests and on the top of the theme park world for 40 years. Its not the park of my youth and I am glad for it. You cannot stay on the top by living completely on your legacy. The audience of today is FAR different than the audience of yesterday. If you think Tiki birds, carousel of progress and the people mover is enough to continue charging $90+ a day for tickets then you are going to be very disappointed when Disney folds up and starts closing parks. They have to let go of the past in order to have a future. Its your desperate need to relive your youth that keeps you coming back. If they fail with the youth of today (and I doubt any of us qualify) then they won't be coming back later to recapture that wonderful experience.

 

[aladdin2007]

There are 2 problems

1) few people are complaining. I'm not sure what the forum membership is here, but I am certain that it is very small compared to the 15 million visitors to MK last year.

2) You look at the results of a change and then criticize those who had to envision it on paper years before it was done. Not many people would argue that imaginieers are bad at their jobs or want to put out sub-par attractions. They don't sit in their offices saying "how can we screw things up today!?" You have to take the good with the bad. Not every product that every company comes up with is a winner. (New Coke comes to mind). For every few Under New Management's you get, you might end up with a soarin.

True and this proves that Disney is by no means perfect. In SSE's case, it was not so much Imagineering as it was Siemens and TDO. Imagineering had a fully designed plan but then due to horrible managing from the getgo (TDO being ugly about the whole thing and Siemens not wanting to pay anymore money), therefore we are left with the ugliness we have today in there. What will it take? Siemens to cough up the dough.

Disney publishing even printed how it is (even tho it never came to be) (Imagineering Field Guide to Epcot). "Surrounding them Guests see an abstract version of the traingular panels that make up the surface of the exterior sphere. The panels explode into a burst of energy, representing the genesis of the next great idea. These panels follow us down the ramp increasing in density as reach the bottom affirming our return to spaceship earth." pg 35.

 

[Mansion Butler]

I will only accept it as finished when the bad narration and select your future BS is just a bad memory.

I don't want the touch screens or interactivity scrapped, necessarily. Just Jetsons cartoons at the end of a dramatic ride about real innovation.

It was so wonderful and beautiful with the city of light, and such a stirring scene with that epic music as you descend!

dat score

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Or they are as nutty as the people that think we should go back to the days where people dying from measles and pertussis were common place.

The heck? You never struck me as an idiot, but that comment is very idiotic. You're comparing people who have noted a clear downgrade in theme park attraction quality to people who would love to wallow in filth and disease. That doesn't help to prove your point, it actually invalidates it. The epitome of a poorly constructed straw man argument.:brick:

There are 2 problems

1) few people are complaining. I'm not sure what the forum membership is here, but I am certain that it is very small compared to the 15 million visitors to MK last year.

2) You look at the results of a change and then criticize those who had to envision it on paper years before it was done. Not many people would argue that imaginieers are bad at their jobs or want to put out sub-par attractions. They don't sit in their offices saying "how can we screw things up today!?" You have to take the good with the bad. Not every product that every company comes up with is a winner. (New Coke comes to mind). For every few Under New Management's you get, you might end up with a soarin.

Every time someone starts a sentence with "I hope they bring back...." I cringe. Disney is timeless and has been relevant to guests and on the top of the theme park world for 40 years. Its not the park of my youth and I am glad for it. You cannot stay on the top by living completely on your legacy. The audience of today is FAR different than the audience of yesterday. If you think Tiki birds, carousel of progress and the people mover is enough to continue charging $90+ a day for tickets then you are going to be very disappointed when Disney folds up and starts closing parks. They have to let go of the past in order to have a future. Its your desperate need to relive your youth that keeps you coming back. If they fail with the youth of today (and I doubt any of us qualify) then they won't be coming back later to recapture that wonderful experience.

Granted, few people are actively complaining. Thought it's more to do with many guests at WDW having never seen (or perhaps not remembering) the original version. You can't make a poll of a few random forum goers and expect it to speak for all WDW goers. But that doesn't change the fact that the new version is lackluster.

I also never said Imagineers were actively trying to make a bad show. But whether intended or not, a bad show is a bad show. I never use the excuse that "all companies make mistakes" to excuse any lack of quality. Especially when this mistake replaced a winning formula. I ALWAYS praise something that happens to be good (of which there's a ton of), but i criticize what i feel is terrible or lackluster as well. Nothing exactly wrong with that. And i don't forgive one attraction for being bad just because another happens to be good. For example, the Fantasyland expansion doesn't excuse Imagination or SSE's descent from being crap, even though it happens to look really cool. Nor do all the recent improvements at Haunted Mansion excuse Everest's present state.

I do find it hard to believe that imagineers looked at a ride like Imagination and thought their new idea was better than the old one. Or that a little cheaply animated cartoon would cover up chicken wire and painted triangles in SSE. I feel that whoever was responsible for these things definitely needs to go (or forced to try harder).

New is best, if it's absolutely an improvement over an older attraction. I'd much rather have the old Imagination ride or SSE descent than the old one though, if those were the only two choices. I'd rather take a step back to the old if it means that the attraction will be better than the current one (like UNM's death). The sad thing is that i just think Disney imagineering needs a restructuring, or the entire company. Too often, their new projects are very hit or miss.

My point is- bring on the new. As long as you can truly make the experience better than what you started out with. Don't take steps back in an attempt to making an attraction new. And don't strive too hard to appeal to only a very narrow generation by trying to be too "hip".

 

[aladdin2007]

The heck? You never struck me as an idiot, but that comment is very idiotic. You're comparing people who have noted a clear downgrade in theme park attraction quality to people who would love to wallow in filth and disease. That doesn't help to prove your point, it actually invalidates it. The epitome of a poorly constructed straw man argument.:brick:



Granted, few people are actively complaining. Thought it's more to do with many guests at WDW having never seen (or perhaps not remembering) the original version. You can't make a poll of a few random forum goers and expect it to speak for all WDW goers. But that doesn't change the fact that the new version is lackluster.

I also never said Imagineers were actively trying to make a bad show. But whether intended or not, a bad show is a bad show. I never use the excuse that "all companies make mistakes" to excuse any lack of quality. Especially when this mistake replaced a winning formula. I ALWAYS praise something that happens to be good (of which there's a ton of), but i criticize what i feel is terrible or lackluster as well. Nothing exactly wrong with that. And i don't forgive one attraction for being bad just because another happens to be good. For example, the Fantasyland expansion doesn't excuse Imagination or SSE's descent from being crap, even though it happens to look really cool. Nor do all the recent improvements at Haunted Mansion excuse Everest's present state.

I do find it hard to believe that imagineers looked at a ride like Imagination and thought their new idea was better than the old one. Or that a little cheaply animated cartoon would cover up chicken wire and painted triangles in SSE. I feel that whoever was responsible for these things definitely needs to go (or forced to try harder).
New is best, if it's absolutely an improvement over an older attraction. I'd much rather have the old Imagination ride or SSE descent than the old one though, if those were the only two choices. I'd rather take a step back to the old if it means that the attraction will be better than the current one (like UNM's death). The sad thing is that i just think Disney imagineering needs a restructuring, or the entire company. Too often, their new projects are very hit or miss.

My point is- bring on the new. As long as you can truly make the experience better than what you started out with. Don't take steps back in an attempt to making an attraction new. And don't strive too hard to appeal to only a very narrow generation by trying to be too "hip".

Agree! The first Imagination diaster however was purely bad Imagineering sadly. And just for fun, I remember reading a few years ago that those Imagineers who came up with it, were terminated. Whether thats true :shrug: As for SSE it was Bob Gurr who was in charge I believe, and Im guessing he didnt get the full funding he needed, plus battles with TDO.

 

[Master Yoda]

The heck? You never struck me as an idiot, but that comment is very idiotic. You're comparing people who have noted a clear downgrade in theme park attraction quality to people who would love to wallow in filth and disease. That doesn't help to prove your point, it actually invalidates it. The epitome of a poorly constructed straw man argument.:brick:

Take a breath there bud. There is this thing called "exaggeration". It is a fairly common device use to make a point. That point being going backwards is not the answer.

 

[JEANYLASER]

very interesting!

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Take a breath there bud. There is this thing called "exaggeration". It is a fairly common device use to make a point. That point being going backwards is not the answer.

That "exaggeration" as you call it doesn't exactly prove a point, if you were trying to make one (it's a strawman fallacy).

I agree that going backwards is not the answer. The problem with that argument is that too often, the new attractions they make ARE a step backwards. SSE, Imagination, Under New Management, etc. Going forwards is great, but that's contingent on actually going forwards and not making attractions inherently worse. There's a right way and a wrong way to approach improvements. Too often, the old way IS the best way when it comes to Disney...

New superior attraction > Old good attraction >>>>> New inferior attraction.

If all three options were on the table, i'd always take the new superior one (Haunted Mansion for instance). But IMO, it's too often that the only choice that even crops up is to choose between a bad redesign or keeping the older better design. Plenty of examples of this, and i'd much rather have kept the older way of doing things if WDI can't create a superior experience. Might be a rather unfortunate scenario, but it's better than ruining an attraction. It's a shame that this is too often the way things are.:brick:

 

[MissMorrow]

I don't think I really understand how an interactive descent gets boring after you have done it a few times. The interactive ending allows you to have a slightly different experience each time, but the old static descent was always the same. If anything would get boring over time I would think that it would be the same thing over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I think they could have done better with the ending and I agree that something else would definitely be better. But to call that boring, over seeing the same static pieces over and over just befuddles me a little.

There are only some many combinations and not all of the options interest me. The old descent was beautiful, relaxing, and inspiring. The new one is cute which to me seems odd since the attraction is not "cute." It would have been better placed in the post-show area. I would have had no objection if they had gone that route.
I'm glad they at least got rid of that ridiculous "What have you learned?" quiz.

 

[Master Yoda]

That "exaggeration" as you call it doesn't exactly prove a point, if you were trying to make one (it's a strawman fallacy).

I agree that going backwards is not the answer. The problem with that argument is that too often, the new attractions they make ARE a step backwards. SSE, Imagination, Under New Management, etc. Going forwards is great, but that's contingent on actually going forwards and not making attractions inherently worse. There's a right way and a wrong way to approach improvements. Too often, the old way IS the best way when it comes to Disney...

New superior attraction > Old good attraction >>>>> New inferior attraction.

If all three options were on the table, i'd always take the new superior one (Haunted Mansion for instance). But IMO, it's too often that the only choice that even crops up is to choose between a bad redesign or keeping the older better design. Plenty of examples of this, and i'd much rather have kept the older way of doing things if WDI can't create a superior experience. Might be a rather unfortunate scenario, but it's better than ruining an attraction. It's a shame that this is too often the way things are.:brick:

First of all the attraction I was referring to was Tiki and IMHO going back to the original, while an improvement, was the wrong solution. In other threads I have compared it to a putting in a can of fix a flat. It is a temporary fix, a band aid if you will. It works fine now, simply because it is different, but the original was replaced for one simple reason. The vast majority of people were sick of it and it was playing to theaters at 30% of capacity on a good day. What makes you think that will not be the case again in another 5-10 years? Hence the comparison to people who think we were better off before vaccines. It is an example of a major error in judgment based on forgetting the past.

In regards to SEE I think the refurb was an improvement until we reach the decent. Why I am I not willing to declare this project a complete failure as of yet? The decent is not finished yet. While I am quite perturbed that Disney would leave a job half done, it is hard to accurately pass judgment on project that is not 100% complete. I am still holding out hope that they will eventually finish this project.

 

[TheDisneyMagic]

I sincerely hope that you have a good time in DLP but warn you to go with no expectations... i was sorely disapointed in these parks (with a few exceptions)
the level of care by the staff was sorely lacking.hopefully you will have a great vacation and my tips are to definatly do thunder mountain,space mountain and phantom manor as these are as good as if not better than the florida ones :wave:

If you go to Disneyland Paris purely to compare every detail to another Disney Resort such as Walt Disney World, you will disappoint yourself because you will keep saying WDW does it differently.

If you go to Disneyland Paris with an open mind and take it for it's uniqueness you will love it.

Have a fantastic time, Disneyland Parc is definately the most beautiful Magic Kingdom style park around the World and many of the attractions like mentioned are definate upgrades. Add Pirates to the list as well. Far superior to Florida's.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

First of all the attraction I was referring to was Tiki and IMHO going back to the original, while an improvement, was the wrong solution. In other threads I have compared it to a putting in a can of fix a flat. It is a temporary fix, a band aid if you will. It works fine now, simply because it is different, but the original was replaced for one simple reason. The vast majority of people were sick of it and it was playing to theaters at 30% of capacity on a good day. What makes you think that will not be the case again in another 5-10 years? Hence the comparison to people who think we were better off before vaccines. It is an example of a major error in judgment based on forgetting the past.

In regards to SEE I think the refurb was an improvement until we reach the decent. Why I am I not willing to declare this project a complete failure as of yet? The decent is not finished yet. While I am quite perturbed that Disney would leave a job half done, it is hard to accurately pass judgment on project that is not 100% complete. I am still holding out hope that they will eventually finish this project.

The vaccines comparison just doesn't work. A vaccine cures a disease. The original Tiki Room can hardly be compared to a disease. The UNM show could be though lol!

More like we're going back to how it was before a new disease was introduced. UNM wasn't a vaccine, but rather an injection of advanced bird flu (see what i did there?). I'll take the original over that, even if it doesn't address any attendance problems. A newer GOOD would be better, but it was never in the cards anyways apparently.

I am well aware that SSE's descent was never finished. That's part of the inherent problem with the Disney company though. They build attractions in a half hearted way and don't finish them. I get the feeling this is what happened with Imagination's 1998 and newer refurbs as well. And it even plagues otherwise great and high-quality attractions like the new Little Mermaid ride in CA...

When they finish it, i'll pass judgement on their attempts. As it stands, we can only judge it as it is. Which is to say, pretty pathetic.

If you go to Disneyland Paris purely to compare every detail to another Disney Resort such as Walt Disney World, you will disappoint yourself because you will keep saying WDW does it differently.

If you go to Disneyland Paris with an open mind and take it for it's uniqueness you will love it.

Have a fantastic time, Disneyland Parc is definately the most beautiful Magic Kingdom style park around the World and many of the attractions like mentioned are definate upgrades. Add Pirates to the list as well. Far superior to Florida's.

Disneyland Paris doesn't have as many rides or attractions as WDW, but most of them are vastly superior. No doubt that Pirates in Paris is the best version there is for example. Unless management has gotten so horrible the place is unrecognizable (since my visit in the mid 90's), i can't imagine being disappointed. The attractions at least should still be long and very cool.

 

[Master Yoda]

The vaccines comparison just doesn't work. A vaccine cures a disease. The original Tiki Room can hardly be compared to a disease. The UNM show could be though lol!

More like we're going back to how it was before a new disease was introduced. UNM wasn't a vaccine, but rather an injection of advanced bird flu (see what i did there?). I'll take the original over that, even if it doesn't address any attendance problems. A newer GOOD would be better, but it was never in the cards anyways apparently.

I am well aware that SSE's descent was never finished. That's part of the inherent problem with the Disney company though. They build attractions in a half hearted way and don't finish them. I get the feeling this is what happened with Imagination's 1998 and newer refurbs as well. And it even plagues otherwise great and high-quality attractions like the new Little Mermaid ride in CA...

When they finish it, i'll pass judgement on their attempts. As it stands, we can only judge it as it is. Which is to say, pretty pathetic.

The analogy has nothing to do with vaccines or disease. It has to do with forgetting the past and repeating it.