SSE Finally Getting Finished

[MerlinTheGoat]

I think most of the past Future World rides would still have been good fun today. Particularly Imagination, i agree with the previous poster.

If worst came to worst, i could see them just getting rid of the turntable part of the ride. Instead of deleting that scene though, move Dreamfinder's intro scene into a pre-show waiting area of sorts like the ones you see in Test Track or other such rides. They had something like 5 models of that same scene anyways, so they could do multiple rooms with the same scene for a steady crowd to file into. That's the worst case scenario of course, with modern technology it would likely have been easy to correct any issues the original ride suffered with without making any real inherent changes to the ride at all.

 

[MichWolv]

Refurbs are good but if the ending is fine and doesn't need to change,leave it.

I wonder what it would be like if Horizons,World of Motion,Imagination 1.0,Wonders Of Life,Communicore,and the original Universe of Energy were still around. Would they be as popular as they were back then?

Horizons, WoM, and Imagination were all walk-ons at all hours of the day virtually the entire year towards the end of their lives. I am reasonably certain they'd be exactly that popular if were still around. And that is why they aren't still around. They have been replaced by two thrill rides -- one of which routinely has long lines, and the other of which varies from walk-on during slow season to long lines during busy seasons -- and one sad shell of its former self which is even worse than a walk-on most of the time, in that cars go off empty. Crowd-wise, that would suggest 2 of the 3 are improvements. I Horizons and WoM, but what replaced them are more popular than they were at the end of their lives.

UoE had half-full theater cars towards the end of its life, and now has half-full theater cars again. I prefer the original version, particularly for the pre-show, but the changeover gave the attraction a different feel (serious to light-hearted) and certainly extended the life of the pavilion as a whole. Next refurb of UoE would probably have to be a gutting, unless they find another creative way to use the same Dino scenes.

As for WoL, again, Cranium Command and Making of Me never had a wait at the end, and Body Wars rarely did as well. So, if it were still around, I suspect that it would draw similar non-crowds. I really enjoyed WoL, in part because of the fact that there were all those little games and activities outside of the attractions -- done right, that could've been the first "next-gen" queue. But it wasn't drawing big crowds.

We remember these things fondly, but we don't, unfortunately, represent the norm -- all of the FW attractions that were taken out were seeing low crowds before they were replaced/abandoned.

 

[SleepingMonk]

Horizons, WoM, and Imagination were all walk-ons at all hours of the day virtually the entire year towards the end of their lives. I am reasonably certain they'd be exactly that popular if were still around. And that is why they aren't still around. .

POTC and Haunted Mansion are both pretty much "walk-ons" right now.

Do they need to go?

 

[Master Yoda]

POTC and Haunted Mansion are both pretty much "walk-ons" right now.

Do they need to go?

There is a big difference between an attraction that little to no wait and is meeting their guest numbers (HM at PotC) and an attraction that, at times, was next to empty and by all accounts were not even coming close to their needed guest counts. (Horizons, WoM.).

 

[SleepingMonk]

I'm telling ya the next one of ya that blasphemes against the holy Horizons is getting a double dose of the Gracey curse!

 

[misterID]

There is a big difference between an attraction that little to no wait and is meeting their guest numbers (HM at PotC) and an attraction that, at times, was next to empty and by all accounts were not even coming close to their needed guest counts. (Horizons, WoM.).

What were the guest counts for Horizons and WOM at the end? Got a link?

 

[Master Yoda]

I'm telling ya the next one of ya that blasphemes against the holy Horizons is getting a double dose of the Gracey curse!

I loved Horizons but the vast majority of people found it to be a snooze fest. I do not like that Disney got rid of Horizons, but I can understand why they did it.

 

[Master Yoda]

What were the guest counts for Horizons and WOM at the end? Got a link?

Those numbers do not exist online, at least I have never been able to find them. All we have to go by are anecdotes, videos from Mesa Verda Times that show a near deserted attraction, and the simple fact that no company in their right mind would go through the expense and hassle of completely revamping an attraction unless it was either to expensive to operate or wasn't pulling its weight. Considering that several of those anecdotes were my own there is no doubt in my mind that attendance was pitiful at Horizons and WoM towards the end of their lives.

 

[misterID]

Oh, I see. It's just funny I keep hearing that, seeing Horizons was barely open after it lost its sponsor and I haven't, to this day, seen evidence about any guest drop offs up to that point. And the fact that a person I know recounted a talk 2 WDI's gave at USC once where they pointed out how and why Horizons was chosen to be torn down, and it wasn't about low attendance. They saw an opportunity and I can't blame them. They did savage the "choose you own ending" which they said showed, something to the effect, weak story telling that didn't have a definitive ending... Which is REALLY funny seeing that they brought the choose your own ending back recently.

I can understand why they got rid of Horizons and WOM, it doesn't change the fact that refurbs of those attractions could have been very, very special. I do remember the EPCOT rated very poorly overall by teens and they wanted to fix that. It's a shame they did it the way they did, which pretty much downgraded all of FW

And Imagination was pointed out earlier that it was changed because it became unpopular which is NOT true.

 

[TropicalFig8]

I think I remember they got rid of Horizons because they wanted a space pavilion and Disney thought Horizons was getting outdated and too expensive without its sponsor.

Besides Test Track and Spaceship Earth,do any of the current attractions in EPCOT still have sponsors? I don't blame Kodak for cancelling their sponsorship to the current Imagination.

 

[Master Yoda]

Oh, I see. It's just funny I keep hearing that, seeing Horizons was barely open after it lost its sponsor and I haven't, to this day, seen evidence about any guest drop offs up to that point. And the fact that a person I know recounted a talk 2 WDI's gave at USC once where they pointed out how and why Horizons was chosen to be torn down, and it wasn't about low attendance. They saw an opportunity and I can't blame them. They did savage the "choose you own ending" which they said showed, something to the effect, weak story telling that didn't have a definitive ending... Which is REALLY funny seeing that they brought the choose your own ending back recently.

It seems like everyone has their own story as to why. The simple fact is that guest counts and cost of operations are everything to the people making the decisions. If the guest counts were there I feel the attractions would still be as well. I spent several 4 day Thanksgiving weekends in WDW in the mid to late 80's and never once waited to get on either Horizons or WoM. I distinctly remember watching a string of empty ride cars going up the spiral at the beginning. The same was never true for IASW. POTC, HM etc. While they might have not had Soarin and TSM length waits there was always some, albeit short, line.

Ultimately, the decision to tear down Horizons was one guided by the new sponsor. What they wanted simply wound not fit in the existing building. Not to mention I am sure Disney was a bit gun shy about reusing a building after all of the issues they had when they shoehorned TT into the existing WoM building.

I can understand why they got rid of Horizons and WOM, it doesn't change the fact that refurbs of those attractions could have been very, very special. I do remember the EPCOT rated very poorly overall by teens and they wanted to fix that. It's a shame they did it the way they did, which pretty much downgraded all of FW

From a purely money making point of view I think they made the right decision. Thrill rides are a quick and easy path to success and Epcot of old was seriously lacking in the thrill department. TT and M:S made the turnstiles spin and continue to do so. I do not believe that a reimagined versions of Horizons and WoM would have the continued success that replacements seem to.

And Imagination was pointed out earlier that it was changed because it became unpopular which is NOT true.

I have never said anything to the contrary. As I understand it, the kerfuffle that is Imagination was the result of an obligation to refurb and a cheep way to fix a technical issue.

 

[mightynine]

I think I remember they got rid of Horizons because they wanted a space pavilion and Disney thought Horizons was getting outdated and too expensive without its sponsor.

Besides Test Track and Spaceship Earth,do any of the current attractions in EPCOT still have sponsors? I don't blame Kodak for cancelling their sponsorship to the current Imagination.

M:S still has HP. Sum of All Thrills is Raytheon. Might be some others in Innoventions I'm missing.

 

[Master Yoda]

M:S still has HP. Sum of All Thrills is Raytheon. Might be some others in Innoventions I'm missing.

SSE still has Seimens.

 

[MichWolv]

Refurbs are good but if the ending is fine and doesn't need to change,leave it.

I wonder what it would be like if Horizons,World of Motion,Imagination 1.0,Wonders Of Life,Communicore,and the original Universe of Energy were still around. Would they be as popular as they were back then?

Horizons, WoM, and Imagination were all walk-ons at all hours of the day virtually the entire year towards the end of their lives. I am reasonably certain they'd be exactly that popular if were still around. And that is why they aren't still around. They have been replaced by two thrill rides -- one of which routinely has long lines, and the other of which varies from walk-on during slow season to long lines during busy seasons -- and one sad shell of its former self which is even worse than a walk-on most of the time, in that cars go off empty. Crowd-wise, that would suggest 2 of the 3 are improvements. I Horizons and WoM, but what replaced them are more popular than they were at the end of their lives.

UoE had half-full theater cars towards the end of its life, and now has half-full theater cars again. I prefer the original version, particularly for the pre-show, but the changeover gave the attraction a different feel (serious to light-hearted) and certainly extended the life of the pavilion as a whole. Next refurb of UoE would probably have to be a gutting, unless they find another creative way to use the same Dino scenes.

As for WoL, again, Cranium Command and Making of Me never had a wait at the end, and Body Wars rarely did as well. So, if it were still around, I suspect that it would draw similar non-crowds. I really enjoyed WoL, in part because of the fact that there were all those little games and activities outside of the attractions -- done right, that could've been the first "next-gen" queue. But it wasn't drawing big crowds.

We remember these things fondly, but we don't, unfortunately, represent the norm -- all of the FW attractions that were taken out were seeing low crowds before they were replaced/abandoned.

POTC and Haunted Mansion are both pretty much "walk-ons" right now.

Do they need to go?

The question I responded to was whether the old attractions would be as popular as they were back then, not whether they "needed to go". My response was essentially, "Yes, they would be as popular" because they weren't very popular back then either.

I wish I could still ride Horizons and WoM. I wish I could still see the original UoE pre-show. And I don't think any of them needed to go. But they weren't very popular when they were replaced.

 

[TropicalFig8]

I don't think thrill rides belong in EPCOT. Isn't EPCOT focused on the future and technology? I can understand that making thrill rides can have teenagers visit EPCOT but I still think Horizons would still attract teenagers. My friend in real life tells us stories on how she went on Horizons a lot as a kid and she misses it.

 

[Master Yoda]

I don't think thrill rides belong in EPCOT. Isn't EPCOT focused on the future and technology? I can understand that making thrill rides can have teenagers visit EPCOT but I still think Horizons would still attract teenagers. My friend in real life tells us stories on how she went on Horizons a lot as a kid and she misses it.

Some would. Most wouldn't. While I loved the original Epcot the vast majority of people viewed it as the most boring place on earth. That assessment even mad it into a Simpsons episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Edna

 

[misterID]

It seems like everyone has their own story as to why. The simple fact is that guest counts and cost of operations are everything to the people making the decisions. If the guest counts were there I feel the attractions would still be as well. I spent several 4 day Thanksgiving weekends in WDW in the mid to late 80's and never once waited to get on either Horizons or WoM. I distinctly remember watching a string of empty ride cars going up the spiral at the beginning. The same was never true for IASW. POTC, HM etc. While they might have not had Soarin and TSM length waits there was always some, albeit short, line.

Ultimately, the decision to tear down Horizons was one guided by the new sponsor. What they wanted simply wound not fit in the existing building. Not to mention I am sure Disney was a bit gun shy about reusing a building after all of the issues they had when they shoehorned TT into the existing WoM building.

From a purely money making point of view I think they made the right decision. Thrill rides are a quick and easy path to success and Epcot of old was seriously lacking in the thrill department. TT and M:S made the turnstiles spin and continue to do so. I do not believe that a reimagined versions of Horizons and WoM would have the continued success that replacements seem to.

I have never said anything to the contrary. As I understand it, the kerfuffle that is Imagination was the result of an obligation to refurb and a cheep way to fix a technical issue.

Oh, I know you didn't say anything about Imgination having low attendance, that was someone else, I think it was MichWolv throwing it in with the other attractions as being walk ons. Should have made that more clear, sorry about that.

But I agree with your post. I don't think, no matter how cool a refurbed Horizons could have been that it would have equaled a thrill ride, unless they went all out on the "Choose your own ending" part. And WOM could have been a combo of TT. I will always maintain that they could have easily co-existed. WOM the most if it were combined with TT.

At one time Paris was going to have an updated Horizons and Space Mountain Mission 2 in the same pavilion, which I think could have been awesome for EPCOT, too.

 

[MichWolv]

I don't think thrill rides belong in EPCOT. Isn't EPCOT focused on the future and technology? I can understand that making thrill rides can have teenagers visit EPCOT but I still think Horizons would still attract teenagers. My friend in real life tells us stories on how she went on Horizons a lot as a kid and she misses it.

Some would. Most wouldn't. While I loved the original Epcot the vast majority of people viewed it as the most boring place on earth. That assessment even mad it into a Simpsons episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Edna

I recall that episode. It made me sad, except for the part about "Eastern Airlines Cola". That was funny.

As for whether thrill rides belong in Epcot, sure they do, if they fit the theming. Why not? One can argue about whether they do fit in these cases, but I think Test Track, Mission:Space and Body Wars are ideas that could work perfectly. Body Wars, I think, fit the best of the three, and Test Track fit well when it opened, but unfortunately, it didn't look far enough ahead and now doesn't fit as well. But the attraction is still very popular.

And as for teens, some love World Showcase, but most don't. And before the changes, most didn't like Future World. And little kids absolutely hated Epcot when it opened. No characters; attractions that were long and had stories that were hard for little ones to follow; no outdoor rides or spinners; a bunch of pavilions that were just shopping and eating. Little by little, Disney turned Epcot from a park that held much more broad appeal than it did at the start. Yes, it lost something for those of us who loved what it was when it opened, but it still retains much of that origianal charm, and now appeals to a lot of folks it didn't originally appeal to.

If Disney spend money at Epcot and added two or three big "experiences", like the original attractions were, I'd be ecstatic, but what's there now is much more successful, I suspect, for the general public, then what was there when it opened.

 

[SleepingMonk]

... what's there now is much more successful, I suspect, for the general public, then what was there when it opened.

Bah, the general public stinks on ice.

 

[misterID]

I don't think thrill rides belong in EPCOT. Isn't EPCOT focused on the future and technology? I can understand that making thrill rides can have teenagers visit EPCOT but I still think Horizons would still attract teenagers. My friend in real life tells us stories on how she went on Horizons a lot as a kid and she misses it.

EPCOT really did have to change, though. It did rate pretty poorly as a park. There wasn't a whole lot to do there back in the day and they didn't have a variety of attractions that would appeal to the average family. They did need thrill rides. And I have to say they tried to give it "smart" thrill rides. EPCOT was a lot like AK before Everest.

Mine and a lot of others gripes are is that they didn't have to sacrifice one for the other the way they did.