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SPOILERS: WandaVision Discussion / Reactions to Most Recent Episodes
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I think Wizard of Oz references are overdone and unnecessary, but I'd be lying if this shot didn't amuse me:
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Characters coming back from the dead is overdone in comics, and I don't want Marvel to overdo it in their shows despite it being a common trope. If no one dies, then no one is ever in danger, and there's less emotional investment when characters do fall.
The ending of Endgame was emotional because we've become attached to the Tony Stark character. If he were to come back right away it would undermine that achievement. It's a comic, so never say never, but not every single time please. Batman v. Superman killed off a character and hinted at their return before the end credits rolled. Why even bother? It's just lazy to always do that.
Bringing in alternate timeline Gamora is a good example of letting a character die but still bringing the character back in a different way.
And on the note of expectations not delivered:
collider.com
By treating Wanda’s story as one about grief, loss, and healing, Marvel denied me the chance to connect my comic book knowledge to the movies. Do you think we read comic books for fun? NO. We read them so we can amass a bunch of knowledge about storylines and then feel secure that we’re ahead of the curve when the movies come along to repeat those storylines. I haven’t been burned this badly by Marvel since The Mandarin turned out to be just an actor in Iron Man 3. Why would you play with my expectations, Marvel? To surprise me? To bring me joy? The only joy I feel is when my fan theories are proved correct so that people know I’m smart.
The ending of Endgame was emotional because we've become attached to the Tony Stark character. If he were to come back right away it would undermine that achievement. It's a comic, so never say never, but not every single time please. Batman v. Superman killed off a character and hinted at their return before the end credits rolled. Why even bother? It's just lazy to always do that.
Bringing in alternate timeline Gamora is a good example of letting a character die but still bringing the character back in a different way.
And on the note of expectations not delivered:
‘WandaVision’ Failed to Deliver Things That Were Never Promised to Me
Fans demanded that WandaVision give them big Marvel Comics cameos and teasers, and the show failed to do that.
collider.com
By treating Wanda’s story as one about grief, loss, and healing, Marvel denied me the chance to connect my comic book knowledge to the movies. Do you think we read comic books for fun? NO. We read them so we can amass a bunch of knowledge about storylines and then feel secure that we’re ahead of the curve when the movies come along to repeat those storylines. I haven’t been burned this badly by Marvel since The Mandarin turned out to be just an actor in Iron Man 3. Why would you play with my expectations, Marvel? To surprise me? To bring me joy? The only joy I feel is when my fan theories are proved correct so that people know I’m smart.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
I am going to continue to watch and complain about it because it is a stupid trope that ruins the impact of a character's previous death scene and arc. It is lazy story telling and screenwriting. I will call it out every time.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
That was the funniest thing in the series next to Wanda driving around in a 2017 Verano.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
...and?
Wanda is a terrorist and wanted fugitive. If Hayward blew her to pieces he would be doing Jimmy a favor.
As for acquiring/fixing a working Vision weapon, assuming SWORD is an analogue to the CIA or DARPA, doing this kind of thing is Hayward's job.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
This. We'll see plenty of deaths that will "stick" in the MCU. And to date the only fake out in terms of death has been Loki (albeit twice). I don't recall anyone else dying and then being resurrected - and no not counting the snap, which was a much more unique circumstance. Okay, I guess there's Colson is you are including TV but that seems increasingly non-canon for the movies.
Anyway, I don't see Iron Man or Black Widow (or Quicksilver) coming back to life in the post-Infinity War world. Vision returning always seemed possible as he was a machine and so could he really be "dead"?
I agree that they shouldn't overuse non-permanent deaths, but sporadic and reasonable uses are fine. And I'm also fine with doing any sort of prequels (like the Black Widow movie) where you see more of a character before they die. That said, I prefer seeing fewer character die in general - I think the whole concept of "characters need to die to show there are stakes" to be silly in a fantasy film where it's all clearly made up and you know the good guys are ultimately gonna win. I don't need to have my superheroes be dark and gloomy to prove they are serious or adult or whatever.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
From Jesus to Lazarus to fairies and wizards, bringing a character back from the dead is common theme and trope used since the beginning of storytelling.
So call it out all you want, won’t change the fact this genre is literally built on this trope and will continue to be used in the films. So again you're shouting into the wind on this one.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
And Wanda was an Avenger that Monica fangirl'd over and literally the focus of the show. So her getting blown up was never going to happen anyways.
Except its literally against the Sokovia Accords for him to create or even deploy White Vision for this purpose unless directed to do so by the UN. Him doing it in secret and without permission is why he got arrested.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
However given this is comic based films, its not unreasonable to think at some point they may "reboot" a character with a different actor. Given enough of a timeline even Tony coming back might be possible using a different actor. Or there is the old comic trope of another character using the same mantle, or different multiverse versions, etc. Anyways many ways for them to use this trope within the MCU and still not be overdoing it.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
It's only against he Sokovia Accords if you get caught. Nosy Jimmy is messing everything up!
Having the FBI arrest someone who's probably in the joint chiefs of staff for running a black project is just lazy writing, or maybe a way to avoid having to actually merc someone on a Disney+ show.
I was reminded of the end of Monty Python and the Holy Grail where a bunch of rozzers arrest King Arthur.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
You can say that about any criminal activity.
And given that Hayward literally dispatched Monica to assist the FBI in a missing persons case to start this whole thing off he set himself up to get caught.
Also it hasn't been established that the Director of SWORD is part of the JCoS. SHIELD reported into the World Security Council which is now gone I believe. So after the Sokvia Accords, if its not still the World Security Council, I would assume that SWORD reports into the DNI just like all the rest of the Intelligence Community, which then reports into the National Security Council (NSC) (or whatever the MCU version of this hierarchy is).
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If you're watching movies based on comic books and are upset that comic book tropes appear (people coming back from the dead), then perhaps you shouldn't be watching comic book movies.
Anyhoo, comic book deaths are, IMO, only cheap if the hero who makes the sacrifice knows that they will be resurrected by their sacrifice which would bring them back. But many comic book sacrificial deaths are done without any prior knowledge they'll come back from the dead. That's what makes their sacrifice heroic.
BTW, the first Groot's death was permanent and a real sacrifice. Baby Groot is an offshoot, literally a child of first Groot.
Anyhoo, comic book deaths are, IMO, only cheap if the hero who makes the sacrifice knows that they will be resurrected by their sacrifice which would bring them back. But many comic book sacrificial deaths are done without any prior knowledge they'll come back from the dead. That's what makes their sacrifice heroic.
BTW, the first Groot's death was permanent and a real sacrifice. Baby Groot is an offshoot, literally a child of first Groot.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that's true for some people, but it's definitely not the reason everyone was underwhelmed by the finale.
I've never read a comic book and I didn't waste my time reading a bunch of fan theories. The issue wasn't that whatever random comic character didn't show up; it was that the whole thing was too formulaic.
In fact, the biggest issue was probably that the story as eventually told wasn't really about grief, loss, and healing. That was why the earlier episodes were so good and the last one wasn't -- that more personal, character-driven story became a sidebar to flying witch fights. Not that that is surprising for an MCU show, and as I've said, I still liked the series. It just didn't nail the ending.
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UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I don't think that would work well in a cinematic/television setting with real actors. That's the one thing that I think actually would turn off general audiences. People generally aren't going to want to see a new actor version of Tony Stark. Most comic fans probably wouldn't have any issue, but the MCU doesn't make billions of dollars off the backs of hardcore comic fans.
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Isn't the new iron man going to be Riri williams , aka Ironheart ?
Yes.
But there's always flashbacks and alternate timelines.
And clones.
And cosmic re-sets of the universe.
And long lost evil twins.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I disagree, I think most viewers will understand if the story is told well. I mean how many times has a tv show replaced an actor and it not affect viewership.
Anyways we’ll see who’s right very soon. Dr Strange 2 is rumored to have different actors playing the various characters from the MCU including Tony. If successful you may even see some of those actors and versions of the characters stick around.