SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[erasure fan1]

Funny how the article says it doesn't know how much over budget it was: fifty million? a dollar? lol

I'd say it doesn't matter. 230mil for what this show ended up being is ridiculous. And the reported budget that was reported just about everywhere was 180mil. So it is very likely closer to the 50mil than the one dollar. But again, it doesn't really matter. Unless the budget was around 100mil, it was over budget. Realistically, the budget should have been what it was originally reported as, and they did 2 seasons.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'd say it doesn't matter. 230mil for what this show ended up being is ridiculous. And the reported budget that was reported just about everywhere was 180mil. So it is very likely closer to the 50mil than the one dollar. But again, it doesn't really matter. Unless the budget was around 100mil, it was over budget. Realistically, the budget should have been what it was originally reported as, and they did 2 seasons.

I really don't think any of us here knows for sure what a show like this should cost, so 100M might not be realistic.

What I see likely happened is they allocated only so much for post-production, and they kept tweaking it in post-production, which is what lead to the cost overruns and going over budget. Its not cheap to do shows with budget heavy VFX. So I can see it easily going over budget. Not saying its right, but I can see it why it happens, especially when under the gun and pushing the VFX artists with long hours of OT. We know this happens a lot of time with the MCU, so its not surprising it happens here too.

 

[flynnibus]

What I see likely happened is they allocated only so much for post-production, and they kept tweaking it in post-production, which is what lead to the cost overruns and going over budget.

But the data point we have is from BEFORE all the post-prod work... so your theory makes things even worse than reported.

The data point is from after shooting - but not before post-prod was done.

 

[Disney Irish]

But the data point we have is from BEFORE all the post-prod work... so your theory makes things even worse than reported.

The data point is from after shooting - but not before post-prod was done.

If you're talking about the originally reported $180M, then yes. But if you're talking about the $230M, that was during the middle of post-production, as the article says.

But as I mentioned we've seen this happen a lot with the MCU. Where they only budget so much for post-production and through how things are done during principal production they end up blowing through that as they go through post-production.

 

[flynnibus]

If you're talking about the originally reported $180M, then yes. But if you're talking about the $230M, that was during the middle of post-production, as the article says.

but not before post-prod was done.

 

[Disstevefan1]

We throw these massive amounts of money around like its play money. It’s a lot of money for little or no return, in fact, they are dropping prices to sign up for Disney+ , begging for subs.

Meanwhile, in Disney’s theme park business, they constantly make cost cuts on projects, reduce offerings to guests, constantly raise prices.

 

[Disney Irish]

@flynnibus I was responding separately to your two different points, but just didn't split up the points to the responses. Anyways I guess I don't really understand your heartburn that it went over budget before post-production was done. At that point it was already over budget, so who cares they went more over budget while in the middle of post-production. So they budgeted $180M, probably went over that during principal production, and then went into post-production, where what they originally allocated from the $180M was now not enough to complete the work since it was eaten into by principal, and so need to spend more to complete even just the basic post-production work. This is the reason why you have some movies and shows having their CG look bad, because they force the VFX to make cuts to keep on budget because principal-production blew through their piece of it. I rather they spend the extra money and go over budget to make it look good. At the very least we can say the visuals in this show looked good.

As I said this isn't new information, ie this is something we know happens at Disney in their VFX heavy projects, I gave the example of the MCU as a primary offender. Should it have cost more than $230M for this project, maybe I don't know. But we know that the VFX teams at Disney are pushed hard working lots of long hours with lots of OT because of the amount of changes and work needed to complete the post-production work.

 

[mysto]

The key to a good embezzlement scheme is to hide which money went where. Sounds like they did a top job.

I feel like this board fails to appreciate what the Acolyte production team has achieved.

 

[erasure fan1]

I really don't think any of us here knows for sure what a show like this should cost, so 100M might not be realistic.

I think we do. We have the other shows to compare to. Andor was, as far as we know was the most expensive show at around 20mil per episode. If that's the benchmark, acolyte should have been around 160mil at worst. It really should have shot for a Mando type budget, and that's about 120mil.

So I can see it easily going over budget. Not saying its right, but I can see it why it happens, especially when under the gun and pushing the VFX artists with long hours of OT.

Sure that all is possible, but not the issue in my opinion. Why was the budget even 180mil in the first place. If it was the approx budget of Mando, and it goes over. We're talking about maybe 130mil worst case.

This is one of the reasons I'm tough on Kennedy. It's her responsibility to make sure everything is on track. And also her responsibility to properly approve the budgets.

 

[flynnibus]

@flynnibus I was responding separately to your two different points, but just didn't split up the points to the responses. Anyways I guess I don't really understand your heartburn that it went over budget before post-production was done. At that point it was already over budget, so who cares they went more over budget while in the middle of post-production.

'we care' because it's not just about 'over' budget, but just how much the thing costs as a whole.

Even 230 vs 180 isn't just 'throw a little extra in there...' that's nearly 25% overrun.. and the details suggest 230 is just the tip of the iceberg... not the wrap up. So my heartburn isn't about 'over budget before production was done' -- It's that 230 was the running tab and we don't even know where the end point was.

And 230... let alone the end point... is still an absurd number for a DTC mini-series.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think we do. We have the other shows to compare to. Andor was, as far as we know was the most expensive show at around 20mil per episode. If that's the benchmark, acolyte should have been around 160mil at worst. It really should have shot for a Mando type budget, and that's about 120mil.


Sure that all is possible, but not the issue in my opinion. Why was the budget even 180mil in the first place. If it was the approx budget of Mando, and it goes over. We're talking about maybe 130mil worst case.

This is one of the reasons I'm tough on Kennedy. It's her responsibility to make sure everything is on track. And also her responsibility to properly approve the budgets.

Except Andor wasn't as VFX heavy as Acolyte, so of course it cost less. Even Mando outside of a few scenes wasn't as VFX heavy either. I'm betting though that the Luke scene cost them a pretty penny, probably more than may of the scenes in Acolyte. As I said I don't know how much it should have cost, maybe $180M was too high in the first place. But in the end if this had been more well received no one here would be questioning it really. It would be "oh well I can see where all the extra money went to make it better". So its really telling how its only went things do poorly that budgets really become a heartburn for many.

 

[Disney Irish]

'we care' because it's not just about 'over' budget, but just how much the thing costs as a whole.

Even 230 vs 180 isn't just 'throw a little extra in there...' that's nearly 25% overrun.. and the details suggest 230 is just the tip of the iceberg... not the wrap up. So my heartburn isn't about 'over budget before production was done' -- It's that 230 was the running tab and we don't even know where the end point was.

And 230... let alone the end point... is still an absurd number for a DTC mini-series.

The problem is that I think too many forget is these aren't typical TV shows, which is what many here I think are trying to compare them to when seeing the budgets and overruns. They are really episodic movies. And so they are budgeted as such, and have cost overruns just the same as any other movie would.

Now should they get back into real true episodic TV shows with similar budgets like traditional linear? Maybe, but I think many here would be disappointed with the quality if that was to happen. So I don't know what the answer is, but its not really for us to answer as its beyond our control.

 

[mickEblu]

We can talk about budgets all day long but as long as Star Wars and Marvel continue to pretend that their audience is not a Masculine dominated demographic they will continue to fail. Stop trying to change reality instead of catering to the audience that exists. It’s like the WNBA. The WNBA doesn’t bring in big money because not enough females care about it.

 

[flynnibus]

The problem is that I think too many forget is these aren't typical TV shows, which is what many here I think are trying to compare them to when seeing the budgets and overruns. They are really episodic movies.

But they don't make money like movies - so comparing them to movies really isn't that practical. And since they've eliminated any licensing or syndication of content... they've narrowed their funnel even more for DTC content.

So yeah, I do think we should be worried about the kinds of budgets they are enabling... and question how the h^$# they think these things will ever return a ROI at these scales.

 

[Disney Irish]

But they don't make money like movies - so comparing them to movies really isn't that practical. And since they've eliminated any licensing or syndication of content... they've narrowed their funnel even more for DTC content.

So yeah, I do think we should be worried about the kinds of budgets they are enabling... and question how the h^$# they think these things will ever return a ROI at these scales.

I understand they don't make the same money as movies, but they really are just episodic movies. Its something that was talked about here many years ago when Mando and the MCU D+ shows first came out. They are taking the same way they shoot movies and using that to make the shows. Its why these things have cost so much, they are doing it as if it were a movie.

That is why its been said that the MCU has really started overhauling everything with their production style because its cost too much with both the movies and the shows to bring down the budgets.

So yeah they can go back to the old way of doing episodic TV like linear with cheaper $1-5M per episode budgets, I'm just not going to be surprised when all the complaints of quality and such start coming up, "it was so much better before".

 

[erasure fan1]

But in the end if this had been more well received no one here would be questioning it really. It would be "oh well I can see where all the extra money went to make it better"

That is correct to a point. I really think if the acolyte was exactly the same from a visuals and effects standpoint, but a phenomenal script, it still gets some criticism over the budget. Because this show, even with a better script, wasn't going to be a ratings juggernaut. There's still too much of a divide amongst the fan base. So a second season wouldn't be a guarantee at that price tag.

So even if it was a lot better, I don't think that high of a budget would be conducive to getting another season. Maybe they push it through with a strict much lower budget? But what they spent was absolutely crazy for a first time show, in a brand new part of the timeline, centering on obviously characters no one knows or cares about, when your fan base is still divided on the direction you are taking star wars. As they say on the Ocho, that's a bold strategy Cotton.

I get things go over budget, there's production problems, all that craziness. But this is a whole different level of insane for how this show turned out.

 

[Disney Irish]

That is correct to a point. I really think if the acolyte was exactly the same from a visuals and effects standpoint, but a phenomenal script, it still gets some criticism over the budget. Because this show, even with a better script, wasn't going to be a ratings juggernaut. There's still too much of a divide amongst the fan base. So a second season wouldn't be a guarantee at that price tag.

So even if it was a lot better, I don't think that high of a budget would be conducive to getting another season. Maybe they push it through with a strict much lower budget? But what they spent was absolutely crazy for a first time show, in a brand new part of the timeline, centering on obviously characters no one knows or cares about, when your fan base is still divided on the direction you are taking star wars. As they say on the Ocho, that's a bold strategy Cotton.

I get things go over budget, there's production problems, all that craziness. But this is a whole different level of insane for how this show turned out.

You say that about how a show of this budget doesn't get a second season, even if it was good, and yet at a $250M price tag for season one Andor got a second season. And I don't recall anyone here having any heartburn for Andor and its budgets.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

You say that about how a show of this budget doesn't get a second season, even if it was good, and yet at a $250M price tag for season one Andor got a second season. And I don't recall anyone here having any heartburn for Andor and its budgets.

Maybe cuz it was a contractual thing.

 

[Disney Irish]

Maybe cuz it was a contractual thing.

I doubt it, as it was originally planned to be 5 seasons and pared down to 2.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yoda's cameo alone cost them $10M.