SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[Disney Irish]

'we care' because it's not just about 'over' budget, but just how much the thing costs as a whole.

Even 230 vs 180 isn't just 'throw a little extra in there...' that's nearly 25% overrun.. and the details suggest 230 is just the tip of the iceberg... not the wrap up. So my heartburn isn't about 'over budget before production was done' -- It's that 230 was the running tab and we don't even know where the end point was.

And 230... let alone the end point... is still an absurd number for a DTC mini-series.

The problem is that I think too many forget is these aren't typical TV shows, which is what many here I think are trying to compare them to when seeing the budgets and overruns. They are really episodic movies. And so they are budgeted as such, and have cost overruns just the same as any other movie would.

Now should they get back into real true episodic TV shows with similar budgets like traditional linear? Maybe, but I think many here would be disappointed with the quality if that was to happen. So I don't know what the answer is, but its not really for us to answer as its beyond our control.

 

[mickEblu]

We can talk about budgets all day long but as long as Star Wars and Marvel continue to pretend that their audience is not a Masculine dominated demographic they will continue to fail. Stop trying to change reality instead of catering to the audience that exists. It’s like the WNBA. The WNBA doesn’t bring in big money because not enough females care about it.

 

[flynnibus]

The problem is that I think too many forget is these aren't typical TV shows, which is what many here I think are trying to compare them to when seeing the budgets and overruns. They are really episodic movies.

But they don't make money like movies - so comparing them to movies really isn't that practical. And since they've eliminated any licensing or syndication of content... they've narrowed their funnel even more for DTC content.

So yeah, I do think we should be worried about the kinds of budgets they are enabling... and question how the h^$# they think these things will ever return a ROI at these scales.

 

[Disney Irish]

But they don't make money like movies - so comparing them to movies really isn't that practical. And since they've eliminated any licensing or syndication of content... they've narrowed their funnel even more for DTC content.

So yeah, I do think we should be worried about the kinds of budgets they are enabling... and question how the h^$# they think these things will ever return a ROI at these scales.

I understand they don't make the same money as movies, but they really are just episodic movies. Its something that was talked about here many years ago when Mando and the MCU D+ shows first came out. They are taking the same way they shoot movies and using that to make the shows. Its why these things have cost so much, they are doing it as if it were a movie.

That is why its been said that the MCU has really started overhauling everything with their production style because its cost too much with both the movies and the shows to bring down the budgets.

So yeah they can go back to the old way of doing episodic TV like linear with cheaper $1-5M per episode budgets, I'm just not going to be surprised when all the complaints of quality and such start coming up, "it was so much better before".

 

[erasure fan1]

But in the end if this had been more well received no one here would be questioning it really. It would be "oh well I can see where all the extra money went to make it better"

That is correct to a point. I really think if the acolyte was exactly the same from a visuals and effects standpoint, but a phenomenal script, it still gets some criticism over the budget. Because this show, even with a better script, wasn't going to be a ratings juggernaut. There's still too much of a divide amongst the fan base. So a second season wouldn't be a guarantee at that price tag.

So even if it was a lot better, I don't think that high of a budget would be conducive to getting another season. Maybe they push it through with a strict much lower budget? But what they spent was absolutely crazy for a first time show, in a brand new part of the timeline, centering on obviously characters no one knows or cares about, when your fan base is still divided on the direction you are taking star wars. As they say on the Ocho, that's a bold strategy Cotton.

I get things go over budget, there's production problems, all that craziness. But this is a whole different level of insane for how this show turned out.

 

[Disney Irish]

That is correct to a point. I really think if the acolyte was exactly the same from a visuals and effects standpoint, but a phenomenal script, it still gets some criticism over the budget. Because this show, even with a better script, wasn't going to be a ratings juggernaut. There's still too much of a divide amongst the fan base. So a second season wouldn't be a guarantee at that price tag.

So even if it was a lot better, I don't think that high of a budget would be conducive to getting another season. Maybe they push it through with a strict much lower budget? But what they spent was absolutely crazy for a first time show, in a brand new part of the timeline, centering on obviously characters no one knows or cares about, when your fan base is still divided on the direction you are taking star wars. As they say on the Ocho, that's a bold strategy Cotton.

I get things go over budget, there's production problems, all that craziness. But this is a whole different level of insane for how this show turned out.

You say that about how a show of this budget doesn't get a second season, even if it was good, and yet at a $250M price tag for season one Andor got a second season. And I don't recall anyone here having any heartburn for Andor and its budgets.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

You say that about how a show of this budget doesn't get a second season, even if it was good, and yet at a $250M price tag for season one Andor got a second season. And I don't recall anyone here having any heartburn for Andor and its budgets.

Maybe cuz it was a contractual thing.

 

[Disney Irish]

Maybe cuz it was a contractual thing.

I doubt it, as it was originally planned to be 5 seasons and pared down to 2.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yoda's cameo alone cost them $10M.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yoda's cameo alone cost them $10M.

Does that come out to like $100 per gray hair?

 

[erasure fan1]

You say that about how a show of this budget doesn't get a second season, even if it was good, and yet at a $250M price tag for season one Andor got a second season. And I don't recall anyone here having any heartburn for Andor and its budgets.

No you missed what I said. The problem was what the show was. It was new characters in a new timeframe, coming from a medium that most didn't care about. I said even if it was pretty good it wasn't a guarantee of a second season at that price per episode. The difference with Andor is it's related to arguably the most well liked of all Disney star wars. It's getting a bit of a benefit of the doubt. Remember it was supposed be something like 5 seasons. I'm sure if it did better from a viewership standpoint it gets more seasons. But I see why it's stopping at 2.

Sure no one was getting heartburn, but it was talked about. It was a very high budget because of the location shooting and the practical sets. And I'll say it, with a better more reasonable budget, we probably do get 4 or 5 seasons of Andor. And that's why what I'm saying matters. For people like myself, who were really looking forward to more Andor, we get the short end of it. Same goes for Acolyte. For people who were looking forward to see where it goes, to bad for you.

 

[Disney Irish]

No you missed what I said. The problem was what the show was. It was new characters in a new timeframe, coming from a medium that most didn't care about. I said even if it was pretty good it wasn't a guarantee of a second season at that price per episode. The difference with Andor is it's related to arguably the most well liked of all Disney star wars. It's getting a bit of a benefit of the doubt. Remember it was supposed be something like 5 seasons. I'm sure if it did better from a viewership standpoint it gets more seasons. But I see why it's stopping at 2.

Sure no one was getting heartburn, but it was talked about. It was a very high budget because of the location shooting and the practical sets. And I'll say it, with a better more reasonable budget, we probably do get 4 or 5 seasons of Andor. And that's why what I'm saying matters. For people like myself, who were really looking forward to more Andor, we get the short end of it. Same goes for Acolyte. For people who were looking forward to see where it goes, to bad for you.

No I got what you said, I was just pointing out that a huge budget doesn't preclude one from getting a second or more seasons. Heck look at the LOTR series, almost double what all of these D+ series cost, and everyone hated it but still got a second season and now working on a third and rumored to be getting up to five seasons. By the time that series finishes Amazon will have spent almost $2.5B (maybe more) with a B on the budget, on a streaming series, a single series. They could have paid Peter Jackson and he could have done the entire thing for like a third of that.

The point is, and I brought it up before, these streaming shows aren't traditional TV shows, they are episodic movies. So the budgets are outrageous, and I agree too high, for a normal TV show. But when considering they are just a movie split up into episodes it makes sense why they end up costing so much.

But make no mistake, as I know you and others assume I'm for these large budgets, I assure you I'm not. I think they are too high, just as I think the movie budgets are too high. But I just think that many including yourself won't like the result if they go back and try to do these series using a traditional TV budget.

 

[BrianLo]

I think we do. We have the other shows to compare to. Andor was, as far as we know was the most expensive show at around 20mil per episode. If that's the benchmark, acolyte should have been around 160mil at worst. It really should have shot for a Mando type budget, and that's about 120mil.

Shogun was 25 million (or 250 for all 10). But I agree, you can clearly see the money, as you can in Andor.

I have personally no problem with them occasionally spending big on tentpoles, in fact they should. These services still need Shoguns and Andors and Game of Thrones. But this was the wrong one and seemed to even blow passed those level. I can't really see where all the money went either, it wasn't Shogun/Andor. I actually expect more sweeping vistas and larger physical sets when we hit these figures.

Arguably things should be reversed, they should have been upping Mandalorian progressively and started Acolyte more restricted.

 

[erasure fan1]

But I agree, you can clearly see the money, as you can in Andor.

Exactly. Andor you can tell was expensive. And it's part of the movie that's generally considered the best of Disney star wars. So yea, it's getting to wrap things up. But let's not pretend it's getting some a great approval from Disney. They're still cutting 3 seasons that we know.

I have personally no problem with them occasionally spending big on tentpoles, in fact they should. These services still need Shoguns and Andors and Game of Thrones. But this was the wrong one and seemed to even blow passed those level.

I don't either. I just think this was the wrong project to have that kind of spend. There's an expectation that comes along with the most expensive star wars shows made. Heck, one of the most expensive shows in general. And obviously it missed that expectation by a lot. I agree that Mando should have been that tent pole show. But since the movies have been non-existent, they're fast tracking Mando to the big leagues.

I can't really see where all the money went either, it wasn't Shogun/Andor. I actually expect more sweeping vistas and larger physical sets when we hit these figures.

No one can, that's one of the issues. I personally can't see where the money went. It had some good fight choreography and some good effects scenes. But nothing that would warrant that much money. There weren't any big name actors, so what happened? If I'd guess, and it's just that, a guess. I'd say based on how the show turned out, they spent a ton of extra cash trying to make it all just work.

 

[Phroobar]

Exactly. Andor you can tell was expensive. And it's part of the movie that's generally considered the best of Disney star wars. So yea, it's getting to wrap things up. But let's not pretend it's getting some a great approval from Disney. They're still cutting 3 seasons that we know.

I don't either. I just think this was the wrong project to have that kind of spend. There's an expectation that comes along with the most expensive star wars shows made. Heck, one of the most expensive shows in general. And obviously it missed that expectation by a lot. I agree that Mando should have been that tent pole show. But since the movies have been non-existent, they're fast tracking Mando to the big leagues.

No one can, that's one of the issues. I personally can't see where the money went. It had some good fight choreography and some good effects scenes. But nothing that would warrant that much money. There weren't any big name actors, so what happened? If I'd guess, and it's just that, a guess. I'd say based on how the show turned out, they spent a ton of extra cash trying to make it all just work.

There must have been a lot of reshoots and editing and we still ended up with incoherent mess. They should have just stopped and started from scratch with experienced script writers. Someone was given a blank check.