News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Disstevefan1]

Kinda why vinyl records made such a comeback…

I think it time for a tangent
I lived through and was a consumer of vinyl, 8 track, cassettes, CDs and now mp3s
I love CDs but I really love mp3s
No pops, skips, no tape hiss, no frozen tape cartridges.
Perfectly clear music with a better frequency response than vinyl or tape, my entire music collection, all in my very small iPod.
Yes iPod, it works, why change?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I think it time for a tangent
I lived through and was a consumer of vinyl, 8 track, cassettes, CDs and now mp3s
I love CDs but I really love mp3s
No pops, skips, no tape hiss, no frozen tape cartridges.
Perfectly clear music with a better frequency response than vinyl or tape, my entire music collection, all in my very small iPod.
Yes iPod, it works, why change?

There’s only one problem…human ears only hear in analog…they’re not capable of processing digital. That’s why analog sounds so much “warmer” to the human ear and brain…don’t get me wrong, the convenience can’t be beat…having worked, managed and owned record stores for 20+ years, I’ll take a piece of vinyl over an MP3 or download any day of the week.

 

[IronRod]

Several things can be true at once.

Splash Mountain is indeed a charming masterpiece, loved by many (myself include).

Few people have any real knowledge of the IP to which it is tied. Many, and perhaps even a majority, of those riding it may have no idea whatsoever of its source material.

However, the IP in question happens to be a film that has been regarded as controversial from the moment of its inception. Since 1946, long before most of us were born, criticism has been levelled at Song of the South for its portrayal of plantation life. The debate started over half a century before the fabled "woke mob" can be accused of getting involved.

What this means is that Splash Mountain, no matter how charming or beloved it may be, and regardless of how little-known Song of the South is today, has an indelible connection to something long perceived as problematic. That connection was previously thought of as tenuous enough not to matter; now, Disney considers it to be a liability.

I'm not sure why those who object to the retheme aren't at least able to acknowledge the chain of circumstances that have brought us here. No amount of obfuscation or denial can change the fact that Splash Mountain would never have existed in its current form had it not been for Song of the South. Its relationship to the film cannot be pretended away; it's baked into the ride itself.

If the mere connection to something problematic makes the derivative problematic in your mind, you would’ve closed down your account and never visited a Disney park ages ago, as the entire company has solid connections to problematic material. That includes other current attractions which have far more problematic material.

Which leads to the obvious conclusion: it isn’t how problematic something is. What matters most is how much you like something. Then the cognitive dissonance takes over.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

There’s only one problem…human ears only hear in analog…they’re not capable of processing digital. That’s why analog sounds so much “warmer” to the human ear and brain…don’t get me wrong, the convenience can’t be beat…having worked, managed and owned record stores for 20+ years, I’ll take a piece of vinyl over an MP3 or download any day of the week.

Well, not exactly. The real problem is that MP3s are compressed, which means bad audio quality. However, if you listen to a FLAC (lossless, huge in terms of space) file, there is no audible difference between it and a record.
Human ears don't work differently between listening to analog or digital. Everything is converted to analog anyway (your headphones are plugged into a DAC (Digital -> Analog converter)

"digital sound" is what the dial up modem produced when connecting.

(Idiot with a CS degree and a Yamaha Synth here)

 

[MisterPenguin]

Not Location, TIME!d
Look at the addresses on the buildings starting in Liberty Square. They represent the date that you are in. They work up from the founding of the country and end at the turn of the 19th to 20ty century with BTMRR being in the 1890s.
PatF is set in the late 1920s.
It fits in New Orleans Sq in DL, but not in Frontierland in the MK.
Just as MI Laugh floor doesn't fit in Tomorrowland.
Just as flying carpets don't fit in Adventure land (more from a location than time stand point. It goes poly, then desert, then Caribbean.

What's the actual addresses on Haunted Mansion, Harbor House, Diamond Saloon, Country Bears and Splash Mountain?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Well, not exactly. The real problem is that MP3s are compressed, which means bad audio quality. However, if you listen to a FLAC (lossless, huge in terms of space) file, there is no audible difference between it and a record.
Human ears don't work differently between listening to analog or digital. Everything is converted to analog anyway (your headphones are plugged into a DAC (Digital -> Analog converter)

"digital sound" is what the dial up modem produced when connecting.

(Idiot with a CS degree and a Yamaha Synth here)

I remember the first digital classical CD I ever heard (1812 overture) and then the first digital rock CD (Dire Straits/Brothers in Arms) the sound was absolutely amazing…no pops, no hiss but they sounded “tinny” to me…I still loved my analog LP’s

 

[Disney Analyst]

If the mere connection to something problematic makes the derivative problematic in your mind, you would’ve closed down your account and never visited a Disney park ages ago, as the entire company has solid connections to problematic material. That includes other current attractions which have far more problematic material.

Which leads to the obvious conclusion: it isn’t how problematic something is. What matters most is how much you like something. Then the cognitive dissonance takes over.

This isn't @LittleBuford deciding it is problematic, this is DISNEY deciding it is problematic, based on feedback since the film came out.

Disney has concluded this, Disney has decided to make the change. It is Disney. They decide what is or isn't problematic, for their parks, and they make changes. Splash is one of those changes.

Buford's entire post was pointing out that if you look at the history of Disney and SotS, this really shouldn't be a shocking or unexpected change.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

I remember the first digital classical CD I ever heard (1812 overture) and then the first digital rock CD (Dire Straits/Brothers in Arms) the sound was absolutely amazing…no pops, no hiss but they sounded “tinny” to me…I still loved my analog LP’s

Interesting. There should be absolutely no difference between Vinyl and CD . Loudness wars probably had an effect.

Software instruments do tend to sound "cold" but there are absolutely some that have true warmth. It's the hardest thing to get right though, especially when it comes to guitars amps.

 

[LittleBuford]

If the mere connection to something problematic makes the derivative problematic in your mind, you would’ve closed down your account and never visited a Disney park ages ago, as the entire company has solid connections to problematic material. That includes other current attractions which have far more problematic material.

Which leads to the obvious conclusion: it isn’t how problematic something is. What matters most is how much you like something. Then the cognitive dissonance takes over.

The connection in this case is hardly incidental; the ride is based directly on the animated segments of the film, a film so problematic that Disney has essentially disavowed it.

As to your last paragraph, I don’t know what you mean; I happen to love Splash Mountain. In a world where context and others’ feelings didn’t matter, I would prefer the ride to be left as it is. But that isn’t the world we live in, and sad as I personally am about the loss of what we currently have, I accept that the retheme is the right thing to do.

 

[IronRod]

The connection in this case is hardly incidental; the ride is based directly on the animated segments of the film, a film so problematic that Disney has essentially disavowed it.

As to your last paragraph, I don’t know what you mean; I happen to love Splash Mountain. In a world where context and others’ feelings didn’t matter, I would prefer the ride to be left as it is. But that isn’t the world we live in, and sad as I personally am about the loss of what we currently have, I accept that the retheme is the right thing to do.

I guess it’s a difference of opinion. I was personally blown away that the poll to save it got 92k+ signatures but the poll to remove it got 21k. It’s strange. I’ve never really seen anything like it. It usually goes the other way.

 

[Disstevefan1]

There’s only one problem…human ears only hear in analog…they’re not capable of processing digital. That’s why analog sounds so much “warmer” to the human ear and brain…don’t get me wrong, the convenience can’t be beat…having worked, managed and owned record stores for 20+ years, I’ll take a piece of vinyl over an MP3 or download any day of the week.

I hear ya, and I have fondness in my heart for vinyl, but when I remember the hassle just to keep my albums clean, warp and scratch free, I am happy to have my digital music.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

I hear ya, and I have fondness in my heart for vinyl, but when I remember the hassle just to keep my albums clean, warp and scratch free, I am happy to have my digital music.

Rip your CDs and put them on your phone. There: convenience + "Vinyl" (actually higher) quality music.

 

[LittleBuford]

Let me rephrase… no connection to the problematic pieces. I agree 100% the animated scenes are based on it. As well as the source material. That is why anyone can ride it without getting offended. And why it has lasted more than 30 years. I would have no issue re-recording the voices of the animatronics if people find that offensive. I doubt many have complained, with the exception of the last 2 years. If there were truly other offensive parts, I would have no problem with them getting removed, as I had no problem with it from other rides.

Thank you for clarifying. Disney itself was operating under the model you suggest, treating the animated sequences as separate from their (problematic) live-action framing. This approach worked for three decades, but is now being questioned, which is hardly surprising given the shifting social contexts we've all lived through. Those doing the questioning are probably a small minority at present: I too doubt that many have complained, even in the last two years. But the conversation is nevertheless underway, and I've no doubt that SotS—its animated sequence included—will continue to grow increasingly untenable as a usable IP. Scrapping the retheme now would simply be a reprieve; the writing is already on the wall and has arguably been there since Tony Baxter made the unwise decision to tie the reused animatronics of America Sings to a film that Disney was already anxious about.

I've reconciled myself to the change and am choosing to remain optimistic about it.

 

[Incomudro]

Well, they will get over the Splash Mountain thing. The only ones I hear crying about it are their parents.

My son, 20 was pretty upset about it.
"The ride with adorable animals?"

 

[disneyfireman]

It's Oy vey

Yes...I use the phrase daily......auto correct...apparently a Mac doesn't know yiddish.

 

[IronRod]

Thank you for clarifying. Disney itself was operating under the model you suggest, treating the animated sequences as separate from their (problematic) live-action framing. This approach worked for three decades, but is now being questioned, which is hardly surprising given the shifting social contexts we've all lived through. Those doing the questioning are probably a small minority at present: I too doubt that many have complained, even in the last two years. But the conversation is nevertheless underway, and I've no doubt that SotS—its animated sequence included—will continue to grow increasingly untenable as a usable IP. Scrapping the retheme now would simply be a reprieve; the writing is already on the wall and has arguably been there since Tony Baxter made the unwise decision to tie the reused animatronics of America Sings to a film that Disney was already anxious about.

I've reconciled myself to the change and am choosing to remain optimistic about it.

To be honest with you, I’m not disappointed that they’re getting rid of the current characters / story. It’s just something about the scenery, animatronics and look and feel that just looks so good. Hard to describe. That and the fact that every character has ‘Brer’ in front of their name, which I have always found hilarious for some reason. So many different animals. I wish they would have went for a Critter retheme or something and give Tiana her own original ride (with neither of them having screens)

The music will definitely be missed. In my opinion, Princess and the frog didn’t have as catchy songs. It sounds like they’re creating an original score for it, which is a smart move. I am looking forward to the fact that they’re planning an original story line and not “you’re going to be in a log, floating, as all of the characters from a movie sing at you for no reason”

 

[disneyfireman]

Princess and the Frog was Disneys WORST "princess" movie by a country mile..box office wise...no one in mass wants the merch...Literally the dumbest decision Disney has ever made attraction wise...next to Horizons removal...is the re theming of Splash Mountain. Just stupid.... So as a recent pod cast has said...Have a zip a dee doo da day! and keep repeating that on splash Mountain forever....because it WILL ALWAYS be Splash Mountain. I mean disney is like.....hey..lets pick a princess no one cares about...and lets redo arguably their most loved attraction.....lol. just insane.

 

[disneyfireman]

And round and round in circles we go.

And its not just Splash.....look at Maelstrom. Literally no one thinks its an improvement....they took a great ride and did some nonsense to it...its a shell of what it was. Im not picking on the character Tiana...but the last princess redo was a dud..

 

[disneyfireman]

Most of the crows in Dumbo were also voiced by Black actors. They read from a script written by white men.

To be clear, I'm not saying the animated segments are in the same ballpark as the live-action framing story, but I disagree that no one would find them offensive. Disney slapped a racist warning on the Jungle Book for crying out loud, so I'd imagine they'd have issues with the Brers in 2022 even if they weren't attached to Uncle Remus.

If a human being wakes up and thinks.....darn that splash mountain is offensive....that is someone that has much much bigger issues...

 

[MisterPenguin]

Princess and the Frog was Disneys WORST "princess" movie by a country mile..box office wise...no one in mass wants the merch...Literally the dumbest decision Disney has ever made attraction wise...next to Horizons removal...is the re theming of Splash Mountain. Just stupid.... So as a recent pod cast has said...Have a zip a dee doo da day! and keep repeating that on splash Mountain forever....because it WILL ALWAYS be Splash Mountain. I mean disney is like.....hey..lets pick a princess no one cares about...and lets redo arguably their most loved attraction.....lol. just insane.

Well, you're completely wrong Box Office-wise. Tangled had a higher loss than Tiana. And while Pocahontas made more money that PatF, it was rated much more poorly by critics and audiences. By BO and ratings, PatF is *not* the 'worst' princess movie. So, by your standards, Rapunzel is less deserving of a ride. And poor Pooh... his last movie had an even bigger loss. Let's rip out his ride!!

While PatF had a loss of $24 Million at the Box Office, it makes money in other windows. For example, it sold 7.2 Million units of DVD/BluRay for a total of $112 Million in sales. That's not counting, back then, it would also make money for Disney being licensed to PPV, Premium Cable, and Broadcast TV.

Then, it makes money for the parks. You may not like the movie, but many others do (again, good marks from audience ratings).

But we've done this before with "PatF isn't popular / isn't a real presence in Disney."

So, @Californian Elitist already gave us plenty of videos of Tiana's presence...

... let's recap the appearances:

• Tiana had her own M&G spot off of Liberty Square as well as appearing in Princess Fairytale Hall.
• Tiana's animation launches the very popular HEA.
• Tiana and friends are heavily featured in the Castle Stage Show (Friendship Faire).
• Tiana had a dessert party on the Riverboat.
• Tiana shows up in Festival of Fantasy parade and almost every castle-park parade throughout the world
• Tiana appears in Fantasmic! (both coasts)
• Tiana was going to be featured in the now-scrapped Reflections resort
• PatF was used in Sorcerers of the Kingdom.
• PatF is featured in Port Orleans resort.
• Tiana is part of the Disney Princesses 'brand'.
• Tiana got her own restaurant on the Cruise line where she appears (walkabout M&G) and performs. Plus a PatF lounge. [ WDW... bring that to Orlando! <shakes fist at WDW> ]
• Dr. Facilier is almost always part of any villain crew that shows up: Halloween Party stage show, parade, and fireworks; club evil; etc...

One more thing to consider if you think PatF isn't profitable for the parks: Y'all hate Chapek, right? Y'all think he's a bottom line cheapskate, right? Do you think he would sign off on all the Tiana M&G, stage appearances, parades, and restaurants if Tiana wasn't a draw? Do you think over the past years (way before the Splash announcement) that he was promoting prime placement for Tiana at a financial loss? If you think that, you don't hate him enough!!