News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Amidala]

Do we think it would be possible to build a New Orleans mini-land around the attraction? I'm familiar with Frontierland backstage and I'm having a hard time believing they could stand to sacrifice any of that area, since a) It's where the runoff from Splash is located and b) It's where the floats in active use are stored, since Splash is the parade step-off point. Seems like the only possible way to retheme even a tiny patch of land into NOLA would be to get rid of Big Thunder.

Kind of disappointing since I think a mini-land would really help to clear up that feeling of aesthetic inconsistency w/ the WDW version of the retheme.

 

[BuddyThomas]

So, to visualize my armchair imagineering of reconfiguring the lands. Here's what it is now:

View attachment 652782

Yes, MK maps put Diamond Horseshoe in Liberty Square. And if it's suppose to be set in St. Louis, then it's not Wild West. St. Louis was pretty metropolitan by the early 1800s. Also Haunted Mansion is Gothic upstate NY, not Colonial. And there's a Riverboat in Colonial Philadelphia.

And Country Bears are deep south singing mid-20th century songs, not Wild West. And Splash Mountain is supposed to be Deep South as per the source material, but a veneer of Western decoration was fused onto it to make it fit.

So, what if the Rivers of America really was a tour of the rivers of America (like Jungle Cruise jumps around to the big jungle rivers of the world) -- which is what they do in Disneyland. Then you can match the attraction to the river as thus...

View attachment 652783

So, Haunted Mansion is there because the river next to it is the Hudson River. The Liberty Square port is on the Delaware at Philadelphia. Then we jump to St. Louis and head down the Mississippi. Diamond Horseshoe can lose its thinly veiled Wild West facade and be a more urbane crossroads of the mid-1800s, thematically supporting what is on the other side of the river: Tom Sawyer's Island.

Heading South on the M., we meet the Country Bears. Then when we get to the New Orleans delta, there's Tiana's Restaurant (formerly Pecos Bill) and Tiana's Bayou Adventure. Just beyond New Orleans Square is the Caribbean Gulf where there are Caribbean restaurants (Tortuga) and Pirates.

Continuing on the river, we jump to the Colorado River and see the BTMR. And then we jump to other big rivers of The West such as the Missouri, Yellowstone, Snake, and Columbia and see the Indian Nations along the way.

Did you do those maps yourself?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Did you do those maps yourself?

Yes, an overlay of Google Maps on Photoshop. It's looking down at about a 45 degree angle to make the back part of RoA fit. It's actually much bigger looking straight down.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Yes, an overlay of Google Maps on Photoshop. It's looking down at about a 45 degree angle to make the back part of RoA fit. It's actually much bigger looking straight down.

That's amazing. Color me very impressed!

 

[Tha Realest]

Yes, MK maps put Diamond Horseshoe in Liberty Square. And if it's suppose to be set in St. Louis, then it's not Wild West. St. Louis was pretty metropolitan by the early 1800s. Also Haunted Mansion is Gothic upstate NY, not Colonial. And there's a Riverboat in Colonial Philadelphia.

And Country Bears are deep south singing mid-20th century songs, not Wild West. And Splash Mountain is supposed to be Deep South as per the source material, but a veneer of Western decoration was fused onto it to make it fit.

So, what if the Rivers of America really was a tour of the rivers of America (like Jungle Cruise jumps around to the big jungle rivers of the world) -- which is what they do in Disneyland. Then you can match the attraction to the river as thus...

I never knew Diamond's setting was supposed to be St. Louis. If that is the case, it is widely regarded as the "gateway to the west" - certainly in the early 1800's (Lewis & Clark and whatnot, commemorated decades later by the Gateway Arch). So it does serve as a transition point to the "west" (frontier) from a certain perspective.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I never knew Diamond's setting was supposed to be St. Louis. If that is the case, it is widely regarded as the "gateway to the west" - certainly in the early 1800's (Lewis & Clark and whatnot, commemorated decades later by the Gateway Arch). So it does serve as a transition point to the "west" (frontier) from a certain perspective.

But WDW places it on their maps as being part of Liberty Square. Which is just weird.

Also, fine, let it be St. Louis... but, during the time of Mark Twain, St. Louis was not in "the Frontier." It was a thriving metropolis. So, remove the Old West Frontier Saloon trappings and just let it be a St. Louis restaurant.

Here's St. Louis in 1840...

Nary a Wild West frontier vibe.

 

[Tha Realest]

But WDW places it on their maps as being part of Liberty Square. Which is just weird.

Also, fine, let it be St. Louis... but, during the time of Mark Twain, St. Louis was not in "the Frontier." It was a thriving metropolis. So, remove the Old West Frontier Saloon trappings and just let it be a St. Louis restaurant.

Here's St. Louis in 1840...

View attachment 652945

Nary a Wild West frontier vibe.

I wasn't trying to quibble with you. It just never occurred to me that DH was St. Louis, so, it makes sense from a literal transition standpoint to be the "door" to the west/frontier/Frontierland.

For a fascinating read check out Devil in the White City. Midcentury (19th) Chicago and St. Louis were neck and neck in the competition for that world's fair, and by some metrics (population, etc.) St. Louis was further along than Chicago. By 1890, Chicago had over a million, and STL less than half that.

 

[tanc]

I wonder if after Splash, if TSI will be next

 

[SteveAZee]

Several people have suggested a new name for Tommorowland

Or even just a new spelling for it.

 

[Ghost93]

I wonder if after Splash, if TSI will be next

Perhaps, but I would imagine that if TSI is rethemed it would be because Disney wants to spread the crowds out at the park. By retheming TSI with something more popular (and possibly building a bridge to create easier access to the island) Disney could better manage the crowds.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Or even just a new spelling for it.

I'm of course referring to it being owned and named after Mr. Tom Morow.

 

[Tha Realest]

I wonder if after Splash, if TSI will be next

Probably, both due to complaints as to it’s source material as well as being an underutilized space

 

[FettFan]

oMg. They’re going to shoehorn Tiana into SEA, aren’t they?

They’ll get Annika Noni Rose to actually play her in live action for Jungle Cruise 2: Jungles of the Caribbean.

 

[FettFan]

I wonder if after Splash, if TSI will be next

They already started in California with Pirates whatever on Tom Sawyer Island.

 

[aladdin2007]

Probably, both due to complaints as to it’s source material as well as being an underutilized space

give it time, Im sure chapek cant wait to build a dvc on TSI.

 

[Trauma]

Been lurking this thread for well over two years at this point and I figured I'd give my two cents on the whole retheme debacle:

I am upset with how Disney has handled the extremely questionable but undeniable legacy Song of the South has had on the company in terms of its history. Prefacing this by saying I am also a person of color (latino to be exact) but not sure what that'd do to change anything. Ah well.

I've seen Song of the South a few times and while I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as its detractors say, its still a very flawed film full of questionable elements that did not age well at all. Not a huge fan of the stereotypical dialect coming from the plantation workers but it's what it is and I don't think Disney was being insidiously evil when they made it. The ambiguity of the time period also doesn't do any favors, detractors say it portrays happy slaves but I don't think Remus would be able to freely leave the plantation if this were the case. I know most find the live-action segments boring but I feel like they lay some needed framework for the stories so that it doesn't feel like yet another 40s Disney package film. The kid played by Bobby Driscoll is upset by all the changes in his life and he finds solace in the Br'er Rabbit stories told by Uncle Remus, which just so happen to correlate with whatever conflict he's going through. The first story is told when he's considering leaving the plantation to go back to his father in Atlanta, the second one is told when he tries hiding a puppy from his mom, and the third is told when him and the girl played by Luanna Pattern are feeling down after the boy's party is ruined by the two kids that tried drowning his dog.

When I initially heard the announcement, I was heartbroken. I love the Br'er characters and believe they're some of the best in the Disney library. It felt like Disney was capitalizing off the tragedy of the Floyd protests in a way that looked like they just wanted to boost their public image. According to Disney themselves, there were internal discussions to replace the ride for well over five years but I don't know how serious these ideas were entertained as brand new merchandise featuring the characters was still being produced well into 2020. The amount of feet dragging they did when it came to actually announcing the time-frame for the retheme makes me believe it wasn't taken seriously until they were backed into a corner (the "research trip" happening like a week after Anika Noni Rose gave a 2024 date makes me believe this) and had no way out.

Something I'm not a huge fan of is that the Twitter crowd believes the characters were created specifically for the movie when they've existed for centuries prior and had their origins in oral folk stories. Honestly Splash Mountain is so far divorced from Song of the South it might as well be an original I.P or an adaption of the folk tales. This is how I used to interpert it, I thought it was just another park original like Haunted Mansion or Tiki Room. SotS's last rerelease in America was 1986 and while it was still fresh in the mind of those who initially rode it, it's been long enough that the Br'ers can peacefully co-exist with their cartoon brethren problem-free. But of course that's not what was gonna happen, people made a big stink out of it and Disney took the opportunity and ran with it.

I am genuinely furious at the conservative idiots on sites like Twitter and Facebook throwing moronic words like "woke" around whilst mass-purchasing every single piece of merchandise leaving actual fans like myself with nothing but hilariously expensive plush dolls and tumble cups. I don't give a **** about politics at all, get your gooberish nonsense out of here I just want to enjoy my singing animals in peace. Also not happy with those kissing Disney's feet for being "diverse" when they literally don't care at all. The censored same-sex kisses, shrunken down John Boyega on movie posters, and continued usage of Pocahontas (which I consider to be even worse than SotS) should give you enough of an idea. People won't watch the damn thing even though it's freely available on sites like archive.org and form their own opinions instead of blindly parroting others'.

While I am not by any means a fan of the retheme, I can see why it's happening. We're evaluating where our stories come from and second guessing ourselves on whether or not its right to have an attraction themed after Disney's most controversial work even if that means losing one of the only things these wonderful characters still have to their name. I saw PaTF a while ago and I genuinely loved it. Dr. Facilier, Louis, Mama Odie, and Ray the Firefly are my personal favorites. I wish they would leave the mountain alone and commit to giving Tiana an experience worthy of having her own attraction. A repainting of a beloved attraction just doesn't feel right for a character with a huge fan following. Splash is also a massive attraction and you can't just paint the Laughin' Place cave to white so it looks like a salt mine. Disney hijacking a festival meant to celebrate Black culture to promote their BS just felt wrong and I wished they waited for their own convention to show off details for the ride. It just comes off as dishonest and predatory, let people of color have their own festival without you showing up to shill your projects.

Tiana's outfit for the ride is adorable though and I love it. Still not a good trade-off for Br'er Fox but I'll do my best to live with it.

TL;DR Splash Mountain retheme will either be really good or really really bad and no one will be satisfied. At least we still have Tokyo and it's inferior track layout!

Your TL;DR is not true. I HATE HATE HATE ( did I mention I don’t like it? ) the retheme.

If the new ride is as good or better then Splash then I will be satisfied.

I will ride it with an open mind, and maybe we will get an Imagineering masterpiece.

My biggest concern is the recent track record is not great, and it would be devastating to see my favorite ride replaced with something less than.

Let’s hope for the best.

 

[Bocabear]

Your TL;DR is not true. I HATE HATE HATE ( did I mention I don’t like it? ) the retheme.

If the new ride is as good or better then Splash then I will be satisfied.

I will ride it with an open mind, and maybe we will get an Imagineering masterpiece.

My biggest concern is the recent track record is not great, and it would be devastating to see my favorite ride replaced with something less than.

Let’s hope for the best.

Seems like this is a recurring theme these days... There was a time when they hit it out of the park every time...Now it seems like their critical successes are fewer and farther between...

 

[matt9112]

Pirates is still a great ride. First-time visitors unaware of the changes made to it are very unlikely to come away with the dire impression that seems to prevail in this forum.

That out of all the treasure and loot chickens are apparently the crème of the crop.

 

[matt9112]

My main issue is that Splash has been around for more than 30 years, and there is really absolutely no reason whatsoever that it cannot be rethemed at this point.

So people born now just? Don’t deserve to see it? Some things can be timeless there’s nothing wrong with that….they could just build new rides…to increase capacity to attempt to fix there chronic issues…but sure.

 

[BuddyThomas]

So people born now just? Don’t deserve to see it? Some things can be timeless there’s nothing wrong with that….they could just build new rides…to increase capacity to attempt to fix there chronic issues…but sure.

People born just now are interested in 30 year old stuff? LOL. Not in my experience. And if they are, it lives forever on thousands of YouTube videos.