News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[MerlinTheGoat]

Slightly off topic, how have waits for Big Thunder been since Splash went down? I assume they've been up since the land's people eater is gone.

They don't seem that significantly higher. 40 minutes currently. Lately, prior to the rush to ride Splash one last time in the week or so within its closure, BTM was generally within 5-10 minutes of Splash' posted wait. Pirates is currently a lot higher at 60 minutes, that might be absorbing a lot more of the Splash crowds.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Yeah, still not getting how anyone could miss the plot like that...

If people are saying they didn't understand the plot, then I am sure they didn't. However, this thread is honestly the first time I had considered the plot might not be clear to more than just those not interested in paying attention.

I would have thought there were enough context clues to show riders Brer Rabbit lives in the briar patch, including one of the last scenes where you see him again at home among the thorns just in case you had forgotten from the beginning of the ride! In that scene, he also very clearly sings about the lesson he learnt.

Apparently the dialogue is more explicit in the Disneyland version, but one of the last things you hear before going over the drop is Brer Rabbit telling Brer Fox to please not throw him in the briar patch. Surely you would take that as reverse psychology rather than Brer Rabbit trying to appeal to Brer Fox's better nature based on everything that had come before regardless of whether you had seen SotS?

I certainly take people at their word they didn't understand the plot, but I kind of think if that plot wasn't explicit enough then no plot ever will be unless there basically isn't a plot.

 

[Coaster Lover]

I for one am glad they are retheming Splash Mountain... I mean, what does a fox, a rabbit, and a bear have to do with a movie where a Tom Hanks played character finds a mermaid? And not a single Daryl Hannah animatronic?!? For shame...

 

[Inspired Figment]

Truth be told, I always thought Disneyland’s was the better Splash Mountain. Not just due to the John Debney score, but because it focuses more on immersing you into the environment and is more thrilling due to the quicker speed. I find it more charming, though I may be partial due to it being the version I grew up on. Reminds me more of how the original Journey Into Imagination was setup through the way it’s staged and the way the environments are setup. You got what was going on in the “story”/Journey & characters through the dialogue & song lyrics and of course what was going on with the characters in each scene, but the focus was more on immersing you into the environments you explored and things happening in them and how the ride system correlated with this. That and of course the figures would illustrate this aswell with the way they were posed along with their emotion.

It follows much of the principle Marc Davis has talked about in the past. Regarding how rides aren’t really the best medium to tell a linear story. They’re really meant to put you into the moods and feelings of an environment or scene of a story (think of even the way the classic Fantasyland rides are. They don't tell a linear story or give much character development, but they bring you the greatest hits of moods/tones & environments and the ride motions & speed correlated with this.)

Truth be told, I ‘really’ don’t know how they’d be able to fit Tiana’s Bayou Adventure in Disneyland’s. They really wouldn’t be able to tell much of a story with it.. and with no real conflict & villain to the story… I don’t see how you can really tell a good linear story as they typically do these days in DL’s ride system when it’s so drastically different. It’s clear WDI didn’t go into this knowing the two versions were so different in execution of the story. I think they thought, hey, they’re the same ride with the same plot in essence, just different log designs. So we can just easily port this to both coasts… oh how wrong they are..

 

[UNCgolf]

I certainly take people at their word they didn't understand the plot, but I kind of think if that plot wasn't explicit enough then no plot ever will be unless there basically isn't a plot.

Yeah, I think Splash Mountain tells a linear story about as well as is possible for any theme park attraction, barring something like an on-ride narration that explains it to you.

 

[Inspired Figment]

Truth be told, I always thought Disneyland’s was the better Splash Mountain. Not just due to the John Debney score, but because it focuses more on immersing you into the environment and is more thrilling due to the quicker speed. I find it more charming, though I may be partial due to it being the version I grew up on. Reminds me more of how the original Journey Into Imagination was setup through the way it’s staged and the way the environments are setup. You got what was going on in the “story”/Journey & characters through the dialogue & song lyrics and of course what was going on with the characters in each scene, but the focus was more on immersing you into the environments you explored and things happening in them and how the ride system correlated with this. That and of course the figures would illustrate this aswell with the way they were posed along with their emotion.

It follows much of the principle Marc Davis has talked about in the past. Regarding how rides aren’t really the best medium to tell a linear story. They’re really meant to put you into the moods and feelings of an environment or scene of a story (think of even the way the classic Fantasyland rides are. They don't tell a linear story or give much character development, but they bring you the greatest hits of moods/tones & environments and the ride motions & speed correlated with this.

Truth be told, I ‘really’ don’t know how they’d be able to fit Tiana’s Bayou Adventure in Disneyland’s. They really wouldn’t be able to tell much of a story with it.. and with no real conflict & villain to the story… I don’t see how you can really tell a good linear story as they typically do these days in DL’s ride system when it’s so drastically different. It’s clear WDI didn’t go into this knowing the two versions were so different in execution of the story. I think they thought, hey, they’re the same ride with the same plot in essence, just different log designs. So we can just easily port this to both coasts… oh how wrong they are..

PS: on a side note, I enjoyed Walt Disney World’s Splash Mountain a lot too. Not dissing that at all. I actually appreciated its unique, different qualities in comparison to the Disneyland version. I just prefer Disneyland’s as a personal preference is all.

 

[LittleBuford]

I certainly take people at their word they didn't understand the plot, but I kind of think if that plot wasn't explicit enough then no plot ever will be unless there basically isn't a plot.

Since I can’t remember having ridden it before seeing the film, I can’t say for certain whether I would have worked the plot out from Splash Mountain alone. I think it’s generally clear what’s going on, but that Br’er Rabbit gets out of his predicament using reverse psychology is not, to my mind, readily apparent. I know that’s what he’s doing because I’m very familiar with the story, but I doubt I could have deduced it otherwise, except, perhaps, after multiple rerides.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

If people are saying they didn't understand the plot, then I am sure they didn't. However, this thread is honestly the first time I had considered the plot might not be clear to more than just those not interested in paying attention.

I would have thought there were enough context clues to show riders Brer Rabbit lives in the briar patch, including one of the last scenes where you see him again at home among the thorns just in case you had forgotten from the beginning of the ride! In that scene, he also very clearly sings about the lesson he learnt.

Apparently the dialogue is more explicit in the Disneyland version, but one of the last things you hear before going over the drop is Brer Rabbit telling Brer Fox to please not throw him in the briar patch. Surely you would take that as reverse psychology rather than Brer Rabbit trying to appeal to Brer Fox's better nature based on everything that had come before regardless of whether you had seen SotS?

I certainly take people at their word they didn't understand the plot, but I kind of think if that plot wasn't explicit enough then no plot ever will be unless there basically isn't a plot.

It's not that I think people are lying, it's just a foreign concept that I can't personally understand. It has always seemed blatantly clear to me what is going on with the story.

An example of a ride that WAS considered widely difficult to comprehend was the original 1971 Snow White's Adventure. It had to be explained to a ton of guests why Snow White wasn't in the ride, that riders WERE supposed to be Snow. And even then it was STILL confusing to people, especially since the ride ended with the guests seemingly having been killed by the witch. Ironically, Mr Toad didn't have the same guest comprehension issues, despite containing some of the same concepts that confused people with SWA.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Yeah, still not getting how anyone could miss the plot like that...

Probably because if you dropped the average person 52 feet onto the roof of their non-thorn-covered home they wouldn't expect to handle it well just because they live there.

It's not a particularly intuitive story element. Are Rabbits immune to thorns? To gravity? Is he just *that* nimble? The answer is seemingly the latter, that he has some home-field advantage. But there's a lot to take in over the relatively few minutes the ride lasts, and with so few people having seen the source material I'm not surprised that it doesn't fully register for everybody.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's not that I think people are lying, it's just a foreign concept that I can't personally understand. It has always seemed blatantly clear to me what is going on with the story.

An example of a ride that WAS considered widely difficult to comprehend was the original 1971 Snow White's Adventure. It had to be explained to a ton of guests why Snow White wasn't in the ride, that riders WERE supposed to be Snow. And even then it was STILL confusing to people, especially since the ride ended with the guests seemingly having been killed by the witch. Ironically, Mr Toad didn't have the same guest comprehension issues, despite containing some of the same concepts that confused people with SWA.

Nothing about Mr Toad was comprehensible. That's kind of its appeal. "Wild Ride" also suggests just that.

I get why not seeing Snow White in Snow White's Adventure was a more obvious source of disappointment...even as someone who thinks the 1971 Snow White was superbly executed for what it actually was.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

You also missed the fourth bird killed with this stone. There is absolutely, no question, a maintenance motive to this. Proof is how poorly the ride has been maintained the past few years. They will, without question, make maintenance easier with this retheme. In fact, I’d hazard a guess maintenance might have even been the main motivating factor, with sots being used as the scapegoat. That would spell trouble for a similar level quality attraction.

Is it easier to maintain the animatronics in other boat rides like Pirates or Jungle Cruise?

 

[SNS]

Is it easier to maintain the animatronics in other boat rides like Pirates or Jungle Cruise?

Good question. Is it easier or are they just willing to make an exception for Pirates because it's that popular (and the IP isn't one they want gone from the parks)?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

“Disney will ensure that the quality of this attraction will be well done”.

You have absolutely no idea, and you’re putting FAR too much trust in a group that’s put out a lot of less than perfect attractions in the past 10-15 years, in my opinion. Which is subjective.

You also missed the fourth bird killed with this stone. There is absolutely, no question, a maintenance motive to this. Proof is how poorly the ride has been maintained the past few years. They will, without question, make maintenance easier with this retheme. In fact, I’d hazard a guess maintenance might have even been the main motivating factor, with sots being used as the scapegoat. That would spell trouble for a similar level quality attraction.

There were a lot of grains of truth in your assessment on maintenance. Though it should also be noted that Splash Mountain is far from the only ride in fairly deplorable state at WDW right now (with Splash itself not being in the worst condition it has ever been).

As stated before, the initial plans for this overhaul were quite different and extremely pitiful. It was low budget (well low by current Disney standards) and would have included a mass exodus of the animatronic population and physical sets in favor of a lot of empty hallways and flat wall projection. They did indeed plan to use this overhaul as an excuse to kill off a lot of things that are costly to maintain.

The "unexpected" backlash as I understand it actually managed to scare them into approving something far more ambitious and high budget. The claim told to me (which despite my own disbelief, I have admittedly no good reason to distrust the accuracy of) is that they're not going to skimp on animatronic quality/quantity for example.

That isn't to say that they won't end up screwing other things up about the ride. They still need to built detailed sets and create a "plot" that is enjoyable and makes sense too. Plus the music (some of which is new to the ride). I am keeping a skeptical eye on this. But their initial intent to create something that would be less expensive to maintain is at least likely history now.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Nothing about Mr Toad was comprehensible. That's kind of its appeal. "Wild Ride" also suggests just that.

I get why not seeing Snow White in Snow White's Adventure was a more obvious source of disappointment...even as someone who thinks the 1971 Snow White was superbly executed for what it actually was.

Mr Toad is silly and insane, and that WAS the point. But it also executed the "you're playing the role of Mr Toad" concept in a way that was very clear to most people. For one thing, you're actually driving Mr Toad's car with an interactive (though uncontrollable) steering wheel prop. This alone sets it apart from Snow White's wood carved vehicles, which do not convey at all who we're supposed to be. And for another, you're careening out of control and being a menace to society. Whatever crazy things happen in the ride, it is never confusing to the rider as to why Mr Toad doesn't appear in the ride and that we are in fact supposed to be him.

I wasn't referring to disappointment with the lack of Snow White btw, but rather the confusion as to why that was and what was going on. It wasn't well conveyed and obvious to a ton of riders. A combination of her absence, lack of context clues (or even contradictory ones) as well as what was happening in the ride (especially the end, which did not have the same reaction as the ending of Mr Toad's ride) caused the intent to fly over a lot of people's heads. Even had they retained the scarier 1971 version, the ride still warranted some additions to help provide more context to guests.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Probably because if you dropped the average person 52 feet onto the roof of their non-thorn-covered home they wouldn't expect to handle it well just because they live there.

It's not a particularly intuitive story element. Are Rabbits immune to thorns? To gravity? Is he just *that* nimble? The answer is seemingly the latter, that he has some home-field advantage. But there's a lot to take in over the relatively few minutes the ride lasts, and with so few people having seen the source material I'm not surprised that it doesn't fully register for everybody.

I'm a little hazier than @LittleBuford and others as to whether I had ever seen the film before going on the ride. I'm honestly still not sure I've ever seen the whole thing! I am pretty sure I was familiar with the story about Brer Rabbit getting thrown in the briar patch from somewhere, though. My understanding as a child and I don't think I've ever reconsidered it was that the briar patch may look dangerous to others, but for Brer Rabbit it was the place he knew best and in which he was most comfortable. So, once he was thrown in there he was like a fish in water and could quickly slip away.

I guess I at least had that in the back of my mind when riding it for the first time, so that point didn't need too much explanation and the set-up was pretty clear on the lift hill. As for the height, I always took it more to represent the feeling of being a little rabbit thrown into the briar patch rather than literally representing the height from which he was thrown.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I'm a little hazier than @LittleBuford and others as to whether I had ever seen the film before going on the ride. I'm honestly still not sure I've ever seen the whole thing! I am pretty sure I was familiar with the story about Brer Rabbit getting thrown in the briar patch from somewhere, though. My understanding as a child and I don't think I've ever reconsidered it was that the briar patch may look dangerous to others, but for Brer Rabbit it was the place he knew best and in which he was most comfortable. So, once he was thrown in there he was like a fish in water and could quickly slip away.

I guess I at least had that in the back of my mind when riding it for the first time, so that point didn't need too much explanation and the set-up was pretty clear on the lift hill. As for the height, I always took it more to represent the feeling of being a little rabbit thrown into the briar patch rather than literally representing the height from which he was thrown.

. . . I think you're taking my post a little too literally.

The point is that anyone unfamiliar with the story may simply take the ride at face value - why do we end up okay when we plummet into the Briar Patch? Must just be luck, I guess.

My recollection as a child riding Splash for the first time was that I didn't totally get it but that I also didn't really question it. "He needed to get away and he got away by being thrown down the drop" . . . and by the next scene it's clear that worked out well enough for him, whatever the reason why, so the story is resolved even if the how isn't plain as day to every rider. It definitely wasn't clear to me why guests riding would be fine despite plunging face-first into the Briar Patch, and there wasn't plainly a great reason Br'er Rabbit would fare better than us. But we all made it out alive, so . . .

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Yeah, still not getting how anyone could miss the plot like that...

It doesn't really surprise me since they try to cram a ton of explanatory dialogue from multiple characters in at the top of the lift hill, at a time when most people are going to be more focused on the drop and not the dialogue playing. Especially when the dialogue is often out of sync or doesn't play correctly.

Plus even if Br'er Rabbit is shown as being from the briar patch, it's not an obvious place for rabbits to be.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

When I was younger, I was able to follow the plot and understood it to a degree but I more or less dreaded the drop and focused on that entirely.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

. . . I think you're taking my post a little too literally.

The point is that anyone unfamiliar with the story may simply take the ride at face value - why do we end up okay when we plummet into the Briar Patch? Must just be luck, I guess.

My recollection as a child riding Splash for the first time was that I didn't totally get it but that I also didn't really question it. "He needed to get away and he got away by being thrown down the drop" . . . and by the next scene it's clear that worked out well enough for him, whatever the reason why, so the story is resolved even if the how isn't plain as day to every rider. It definitely wasn't clear to me why guests riding would be fine despite plunging face-first into the Briar Patch, and there wasn't plainly a great reason Br'er Rabbit would fare better than us. But we all made it out alive, so . . .

Fair enough. I am learning that what was happening in the ride was less clear to at least some people who had more than a passing interest in the attraction that I thought it would have been. Maybe for that story element about the briar patch to be intuitive you have to have some prior knowledge of the story. As a child growing up in the 1980s in Australia I knew it (I first went on the ride at DL in 1992), but younger generations may not know it particularly as the film has disappeared. My hazy recollection is knowing it from a (possibly Disney) book of stories rather than the film, but I could be wrong.

All in all, I agree with @UNCgolf that they probably told a linear story about as well as they could in this medium on Splash Mountain without a literal narrator spelling it out for you. The confusion some felt about certain elements is probably why so many rides just involve running away from something, going to somewhere, or things going horribly wrong.

In the case of Splash, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it works whether you understand every beat of the story and just assume Brer Rabbit was lucky enough to survive the drop and get away at the end of the ride. I think that's a big step up from something like Dinosaur where you have to watch a video beforehand in which they explain to you what is going to happen, without which you would have no idea what the story was supposed to be.

 

[SpectreJordan]

52!

Oh yes, that could be, as with music, film, etc. Are there young people who prefer Smuggler's Run to, say, Pirates? Maybe so.

FOP would benefit from better glasses, frames that prevent peripheral distraction. It's blurry for me, too.

I'll hand it to the Millennials, though. I'm sure they could build a better video game than Tony Baxter...

Ehhhh with the current state of western video games, maybe not lmao

It's not though. I've expressed this several times in this thread, as well as the newly formed Tiana's Bayou Adventure Construction thread. Disney will ensure that the quality of this attraction will be well done. This is because as many have explained, it can not fail, and it won't. The "success" is again, objective, from Disney's eyes it will be a success.

I'm a lot more optimistic than a lot of people on this board. But what Disney considers a success & what fans consider a success might be two different things.

Since I can’t remember having ridden it before seeing the film, I can’t say for certain whether I would have worked the plot out from Splash Mountain alone. I think it’s generally clear what’s going on, but that Br’er Rabbit gets out of his predicament using reverse psychology is not, to my mind, readily apparent. I know that’s what he’s doing because I’m very familiar with the story, but I doubt I could have deduced it otherwise, except, perhaps, after multiple rerides.

Until recently, I always thought he just escaped by being tricky. Which I guess is true, but I didn't realize the reverse psychology part lol