There's always the option where they put forth all the effort and it does "fail". No one goes into making anything with the hopes of it turning out bad, but bad products be they movie's, books, etc do exist. Even the worst movie you ever saw was made thinking it was going to be good.
I'm not saying Tiana is going to fall into that camp. We know very little and it wouldn't be fair to to the Imagineers to say it's going to be awful.
However I don't care if Disney views failure as not an option that's not up to them to decide. Once the ride opens to the public that will be what decides it.
I agree with the general sentiment. I just don’t know what the criteria is for a failure. Not boosting attendance numbers? Not having the same wait times as Splash once did? Not moving merchandise? Not selling a sufficient number of ILLs of G+ reservations?
I’m not sure how Disney would quantify those things. For example, I’m underwhelmed by MF:SR. It’s fine, but could be a lot better. This seems in line with the general consensus. But it regularly posts long’ish wait times, so does that mean it’s not a failure? It has one of the most impressive approaches and AA in any theme park, and nails the feel and look of the MF perfectly. But as an experience…
My points were:
1) I don't think the "story" of Splash Mountain is super clear on their own
2) A ride's backstory is used to help Imagineers create a consistent theme and story, but isn't necessarily explicitly part of the story
As long as WDI is allowed to do their their job, you won't have to explain co-ops (or salt mines!) in order for your 4-year old to understand Tiana's Bayou Adventure.
Their job is to tell the story. Thats the purpose of the backstory. If the backstory isn’t part of conveying the story then they’re not doing their jobs well and it’s a waste.
Disney will ignore Splash unless it makes them money. This is what happens when you remove literally every other piece of merch featuring the characters from circulation, leaving guests to scramble towards one of the only remaining outlets.
I agree with the general sentiment. I just don’t know what the criteria is for a failure. Not boosting attendance numbers? Not having the same wait times as Splash once did? Not moving merchandise? Not selling a sufficient number of ILLs of G+ reservations?
I’m not sure how Disney would quantify those things. For example, I’m underwhelmed by MF:SR. It’s fine, but could be a lot better. This seems in line with the general consensus. But it regularly posts long’ish wait times, so does that mean it’s not a failure? It has one of the most impressive approaches and AA in any theme park, and nails the feel and look of the MF perfectly. But as an experience…
Yeah we don't know exactly what Disney views as a success of failure. But if some of the above post are correct about the company's thinking. They are thinking about the intangibles. .. I think Disney is looking for universal acclaim. With lofty goals like those. That's why I said it dosen't matter that they think failure isn't an option. It all depends on how the audience reacts
Disney will ignore Splash unless it makes them money. This is what happens when you remove literally every other piece of merch featuring the characters from circulation, leaving guests to scramble towards one of the only remaining outlets.
It's okay because each penny only makes them 99 cents a sale so they're in the clear. If they made more than a dollar over every sale then they'd be in the wrong.
I don't see how the story of Splash Mountain isn't clear. I first rode it when I was only about 4 years old and had no trouble whatsoever comprehending it. This was also before I knew anything about the movie or shorts too, so it was entirely new to me. The visuals, music and dialog all tell the story.
Rabbit leaves home because he's bored and craves excitement. A fox and bear attempt to catch and eat him, but have difficulty due to both the bear's stupidity and the rabbit's cleverness. The rabbit plays pranks on the duo, but the fox finally manages to catch him while he's distracted laughing at the bear. The fox brings the rabbit to his lair and lists off possibly choices on how to kill him. The rabbit outsmarts him by baiting him into tossing him into the briar patch, which was established at the beginning to be where he lives. The fox and bear lose the rabbit, while the rabbit returns home and learns a lesson about leaving well enough alone and appreciating what you already have.
It's okay because each penny only makes them 99 cents a sale so they're in the clear. If they made more than a dollar over every sale then they'd be in the wrong.
I don't expect them to do this, but at Disneyland they could probably slow down the travel speed of the logs by turning down the power of the water flow in the flume.
Well it’s definitely a concern that they move at different speeds (and WDW’s is longer) when designing the new ride. Is one going to have dead spots, or is one going to feel too rushed? I hope they design the ride with both in mind, but at times it’s not hard to tell this was an idea they had came up with for Disneyland.
The Tiana theming could work perfectly if they included Dr Facillier in the ride. He's the perfect explanation for the drop.
I don't know why Disney keeps being so insistent on being set during certain time periods within the franchises they adapt. It's making the plot for this ride more convoluted than it needs to be & it's hampering Galaxy's Edge's potential.
But then they straight up ignored it with Cosmic Rewind since that doesn't really fit in with the movie since the first Groot is alive.
The Tiana theming could work perfectly if they included Dr Facillier in the ride. He's the perfect explanation for the drop.
I don't know why Disney keeps being so insistent on being set during certain time periods within the franchises they adapt. It's making the plot for this ride more convoluted than it needs to be & it's hampering Galaxy's Edge's potential.
But then they straight up ignored it with Cosmic Rewind since that doesn't really fit in with the movie since the first Groot is alive.
Dr. Facilier is also a huge part in the appeal of the film.
Disney villain's are a tremendous reason so many of their films worked the way they did.
Maybe the Dr. is in the ride - I still don't know since so little of what this ride will feature has been released.
I don't see how the story of Splash Mountain isn't clear. I first rode it when I was only about 4 years old and had no trouble whatsoever comprehending it. This was also before I knew anything about the movie or shorts too, so it was entirely new to me. The visuals, music and dialog all tell the story.
Rabbit leaves home because he's bored and craves excitement. A fox and bear attempt to catch and eat him, but have difficulty due to both the bear's stupidity and the rabbit's cleverness. The rabbit plays pranks on the duo, but the fox finally manages to catch him while he's distracted laughing at the bear. The fox brings the rabbit to his lair and lists off possibly choices on how to kill him. The rabbit outsmarts him by baiting him into tossing him into the briar patch, which was established at the beginning to be where he lives. The fox and bear lose the rabbit, while the rabbit returns home and learns a lesson about leaving well enough alone and appreciating what you already have.
I'm one of the few millennials that saw Song of the South as a child. I saw it before I went on Splash Mountain. Had I not seen it, I'm sure the reverse psychology aspect of Brer Rabbit tricking Brer Fox into throwing him into the Briar Patch would have gone over my head. I would have probably assumed that Brer Rabbit sincerely didn't want to be thrown into the briar patch and just lucked out by surviving.
Which is sort of bizarre if you think about it. Is this assumption by Disney based in reality or more a product of the changes the parks made over the years? Up until SDMT, many of the most popular rides weren’t based off IP or were “reverse IP” in which the ride was the original.
Edit: this is not really an argument, I have no data to support this, just a superficial observation I’ve noticed over the years.
I think it's just that there's a lot more high quality attractions based on IPs now. Before this era, I don't think there was too many top tier rides based on IP besides like Indy/Star Tours/Splash/Tower (barely). I can't think of much back then that was on the level of Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Spaceship Earth, Everest, etc... Quality attractions are going to draw lines regardless of IP or not.
I do think IPs are a lot easier to market & draw people into the parks though. Universal's giant increases in popularity after adding Harry Potter is a good indicator of that.
I'm one of the few millennials that saw Song of the South as a child. I saw it before I went on Splash Mountain. Had I not seen it, I'm sure the reverse psychology aspect of Brer Rabbit tricking Brer Fox into throwing him into the Briar Patch would have gone over my head. I would have probably assumed that Brer Rabbit sincerely didn't want to be thrown into the briar patch and just lucked out by surviving.
I don't understand how someone could miss that. They make it explicitly clear near the beginning of the ride that Brer Rabbit's home IS the briar patch. He's seen departing there with the front door boarded up and a sign saying "gone for good".
In Brer Fox's lair, Brer Rabbit also claims he's fine with whatever horrible deaths the fox suggests doing to him (despite them being exceptionally gruesome such as being hanged, skinned, or roasted alive), but is apparently "most terrified" of being flung into the briar patch. Brer Rabbit was also established throughout the ride several times as being a prankster that enjoys messing with Brers Fox and Bear and baiting them into traps (even their own).
It couldn't have been any clearer that Brer Rabbit was baiting Brer Fox into flinging him in. Even if you did somehow miss that, they make it even more explicit in the finale scenes where Brer Rabbit is sitting outside his front door of his briar patch house (which again was shown at the start of the ride) and boasting about how he tricked them again.
I'm a millennial who has seen SOTS as well, but I did not see it or the shorts until after I rode Splash (which again was when I was 4 years old at most). The plot and everything going on was still perfectly clear to me regardless.
They're super inconsistent with it and it upsets me because I miss the Br'ers a ton. Here's some stuff I found last trip (December '22)
View attachment 695312 Br'er Fox figure available via blind bag View attachment 695313 Mickey Mouse Revue scene shown on TV screen in the Marketplace Co-Op store at Disney Springs View attachment 695314 Preview center spread from the same store, appeared on merchandise leading up to the 50th
Either bring them back or pull them all together and stop taunting fans with them.
Unfortunately it will be the latter. It's just going to take a long time until they erase every trace of these characters from the resort since they were all over the place.
I'm one of the few millennials that saw Song of the South as a child. I saw it before I went on Splash Mountain. Had I not seen it, I'm sure the reverse psychology aspect of Brer Rabbit tricking Brer Fox into throwing him into the Briar Patch would have gone over my head. I would have probably assumed that Brer Rabbit sincerely didn't want to be thrown into the briar patch and just lucked out by surviving.
You’re not alone. I just searched for and opened (at random) two reviews of the ride, and here are the relevant passages:
After making our way through Br’er Fox’s lair, one realizes the only way out is down, as in 50 feet down. At the exit of the lair is the big drop that the ride is well known for. At the drop you land in the thorns, where no one wanted to go.
After the drop, we’re back to the light sailing around the ride. We enter another character area and find a welcome home party for Br’er Rabbit. There are so many different animals singing and dancing to Zip A Dee Doo Dah. We don’t actually find out how Br’er Rabbit escapes Br’er Fox’s plan to eat him, but nevertheless I’m glad he makes it out!
Surrell notes that one of the changes to the Magic Kingdom version was to try to strengthen the coherence of the story, which was based on episodes and vignettes picked from various parts of the film Song of the South, by adding “Brer Frog as a stand-in for Uncle Remus.”
Maybe this helped, but I’ve certainly never been able to follow the story, or even hear clearly the song lyrics and the lines uttered by characters over the course of the ride.
Like most people, I’ve never seen Song of the South (a film a little too much of its time in race relations for Disney to be willing to re-release it) so I depend on the ride to explicate itself as story, and have never had much luck with that.
Does this matter? Not in the least. Although the incidents that unfold along the ride are mostly more picaresque than structured as a classical story, the ride has a clear beginning, middle and end, and a secondary (for some primary!) but dramatically supportive story arc built on the suspense of which drop will be the big drop!
SPLASH MOUNTAIN I review rides only when they are new or after they have changed, on the theory that first time visitors ought to try them all and hence don’t need reviews. (For those without the time or energy to try them all, there’s a comprehensive guide to Disney World rides and attractions...
I don't understand how someone could miss that. They make it explicitly clear near the beginning of the ride that Brer Rabbit's home IS the briar patch. He's seen departing there with the front door boarded up and a sign saying "gone for good".
In Brer Fox's lair, Brer Rabbit also claims he's fine with whatever horrible deaths the fox suggests doing to him (despite them being exceptionally gruesome such as being hanged, skinned, or roasted alive), but is apparently "most terrified" of being flung into the briar patch. Brer Rabbit was also established throughout the ride several times as being a prankster that enjoys messing with Brers Fox and Bear and baiting them into traps (even their own).
It couldn't have been any clearer that Brer Rabbit was baiting Brer Fox into flinging him in. Even if you did somehow miss that, they make it even more explicit in the finale scenes where Brer Rabbit is sitting outside his front door of his briar patch house (which again was shown at the start of the ride) and boasting about how he tricked them again.
I'm a millennial who has seen SOTS as well, but I did not see it or the shorts until after I rode Splash (which again was when I was 4 years old at most). The plot and everything going on was still perfectly clear to me regardless.
I think the Disneyland one convoys that better since Brer Fox says "Briar Patch why that's where you're going" at the drop. WDWs just has Brer Bear say "Briar Patch?".
However during Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah while Brer Rabbit is talking to Mister Bluebird he says " I got to thank Brer Fox and Brer Bear for flinging me back to my Briar Patch" However it is possible to miss that because they Mix in Brer Rabbits verses of Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah with his conversation with Mister Bluebird.
If you don’t already know the plot, you see him tied up at the top of the drop, seemingly terrified and about to be killed by Br’er Fox, and then you see him unbound, unscathed, and happy in the final scenes. There’s quite a lot to fill in between these two moments, and while some were able to work it out for themselves, others were not. That’s not a criticism of the ride—the story in its broad strokes was still a pleasure to watch—but I think the idea that the details of the plot were easy to follow is a bit overstated by some in this thread.
