News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Andrew25 said:
Those parks barely see the attendance that WDW and Universal parks do. Universal replaced Hulk for that reason. An indoor coaster like Space Mountain can last a bit longer than that. It's not about how old the attraction is, but how many cycles and the weather conditions it is exposed to.

Space Mountain's track doesn't need to be retracked, but it needs to be replaced for smoother transitions and elements.
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Also, Six Flags in NJ closes for the winter, so they have months to do maintenance on rides without most people being aware that it's happening. They also completely replace coasters with new ones more often than WDW. I haven't been to Great Adventure in over 20 years other than their drive-thru Christmas lights display a couple years ago, but I don't believe the rides from my childhood like Great American Scream Machine and Rolling Thunder are all still there. Meanwhile, Space Mountain is 5 decades old. It's only natural for it to need some upkeep beyond the basics after a while.
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
EPCOT-O.G. said:
You stated, without evidence, PATF was marketable. I countered by demonstrating it’s been a financial failure by an easily observable metric. You’re still refusing to offer evidence of your conclusion.
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…?

There’s plenty of evidence out there that the film is marketable. Disney’s been making money off of the IP for nearly 13 years now. Just look at the Tiana dolls, tiaras, dresses, etc. that’s currently being sold in stores. Additionally, Disney has used the IP in various ways in the parks. There’s your evidence.

Where your argument finds fault is the assumption that box office numbers always have a direct correlation with the marketability of a movie. Therefore, if a movie made a lot of money at the box office, it’s for sure marketable, and if it didn’t, it’s not marketable. Plenty of proof out there that this isn’t true.
 
Tha Realest

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
Californian Elitist said:
…?

There’s plenty of evidence out there that the film is marketable. Disney’s been making money off of the IP for nearly 13 years now. Just look at the Tiana dolls, tiaras, dresses, etc. that’s currently being sold in stores. Additionally, Disney has used the IP in various ways in the parks. There’s your evidence.

Where your argument finds fault is the assumption that box office numbers always have a direct correlation with the marketability of a movie. Therefore, if a movie made a lot of money at the box office, it’s for sure marketable, and if it didn’t, it’s not marketable. Plenty of proof out there that this isn’t true.
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Go ahead and read my follow up message. Who are we to second guess the lived in experiences of Jet Magazine?
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Californian Elitist said:
You’re welcome, my friend.

By lessening the stigma, we gain knowledge/education, understanding, and less censorship. Everyone would benefit from this, as knowledge is universal and not just for specific groups of people. There’s so much to learn from SotS, but Disney is restricting access, and I find that frustrating and annoying.

You’re right, I’m not a fan of the movie, mainly because I find it incredibly boring. Even if I didn’t find it racist, I wouldn’t watch it lol. However, I don’t believe movies and books should be censored. Disney is wrong for refusing to officially release SotS. They think they’re doing something good, but they’re not. And they’ve let the problem grow bigger and bigger over time. It’s unfortunate.
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Thanks. This is a really helpful answer.

I would agree with you except for one thing: Song of the South is a children’s film. That puts it into a somewhat different category from, say, Gone with the Wind, which is much more problematic but not really something a child would typically have access to or want to watch. I don’t have enough trust in (most) parents and guardians to recognise the issues with the film, let alone discuss them responsibly with their children, and I’m not sure that children should be watching it without guidance. If Disney itself were to provide such guidance (interspersing the film with discussion), I would feel differently.
 
C

crazy4disney

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
EPCOT-O.G. said:
My "chosen" metrics? You've offered no metrics or specifics in response. Let's look to some others:

Home box office? PATF only made $117M. Tangled doubled that a year later. https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Princess-and-the-Frog-The#tab=video-sales

You say "Princess and the Frog, and Tiana in particular, have proven to have legs beyond the initial box office release for the movie. She's highly sought after in the parks, moves merchandise."

Again, where's your proof? By 2014, Tiana was selling far less merchandise than other princesses: https://www.seventeen.com/celebrity/movies-tv/reviews/a23199/frozen-most-popular-disney-princess/

It had gotten so bad that by 2017 Jet Magazine noticed the complete absence of Tiana merchandise in stores. If she was as popular as you suggest, why would Disney, Hasbro, and Mattel leave all that Tiana money on the table? https://www.jetmag.com/entertainment/something-shady-happening-princess-tiana-disney/

PATF is a perfectly fine film on its own. I own it, and enjoy it. But you and others are doing it a disservice by artificially boosting its perceived popularity to justify this move. By no measurable standard has this been a popular film.
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Hence why she has never had any real presence in the parks.. there was a reason why & now bc of the climate of what transpired the last couple of years Disney was forced to close a beloved attraction & then shoehorn an IP that lets face it was nowhere near as popular as other IP's would have been if they really had plans to replace Splash... so basically doubling down and in the long run fans will lose out...
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
Thanks. This is a really helpful answer.

I would agree with you except for one thing: Song of the South is a children’s film. That puts it into a somewhat different category from, say, Gone with the Wind, which is much more problematic but not really something a child would typically have access to or want to watch. I don’t have enough trust in (most) parents and guardians to recognise the issues with the film, let alone discuss them responsibly with their children, and I’m not sure that children should be watching it without guidance. If Disney itself were to provide such guidance (interspersing the film with discussion), I would feel differently.
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Disney should include some discussion and guidance, as long as it's done correctly. There are many things that people miss or gloss over in books, television, movies, and other forms of media, myself included (it's one of the main reasons I loved my English and film classes...getting to hear different perspectives and catching things I never caught before was so fun lol). The movie should be released and have some things included with the release. I'd love to be part of a project like this, but Disney doesn't care what I think. LOL.
 
Disney Analyst

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Californian Elitist said:
No, thanks. :)

PatF is marketable and it has already been proven.
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I agree, and I mean... there are a lot of theories and reasons for why the movie wasn't the box office smash it was expected to be.

- Marketing campaign did the movie dirty.

- Having the word 'Princess' in the title meant a chunk of the market (little boys) did not want to attend (I hate gendered norms, this is an unfortunate and dumb reason, but also why you see titles since like Tangled, Frozen, Encanto, etc.)

- Disney had not made a big fully animated musical movie in a long time, and the market hadn't fully swung back yet to enjoying musicals (just a subjective opinion on my part, Enchanted did better in 2007, but was a mix of live action/animation, and was sort of a parody).

- and as evident by what still happens these days when Star Wars includes BIPOC Women in the line up... I am sure in 2009 part of this also had to do with it being centred around a Black woman... Screw racism.

Needless to say, a lot of factors may have or did contribute to the box office performance, but this doesn't mean it is NOT a success today, and certainly doesn't preclude it from being used in a ride.
 
C

crazy4disney

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
LuvtheGoof said:
If Disney does right with the ride, no one is going to care one whit how the movie did at the box office. Some of the best rides at WDW are not even based on movies at all, so not really sure why anyone is arguing that the movie matters. It doesn't. Only the ride that Disney comes up with matters at all.
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I agree with you there but the problem with this is... Splash was basically a perfect attraction when it comes to what Disney is/was... it had it ALL simple as that (when everything was in working order etc) So what are we going to compare the new ride to? and how do you top near perfection... not to mention there are capacity issues elsewhere that is they do create this "perfect attraction" what is the net gain? absolutely nothing.....
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Californian Elitist said:
Disney should include some discussion and guidance, as long as it's done correctly. There are many things that people miss or gloss over in books, television, movies, and other forms of media, myself included (it's one of the main reasons I loved my English and film classes...getting to hear different perspectives and catching things I never caught before was so fun lol). The movie should be released and have some things included with the release. I'd love to be part of a project like this, but Disney doesn't care what I think. LOL.
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This would be the responsible way forward. It’s not likely to happen anytime soon, but perhaps the situation will change in the future.
 
Disney Analyst

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Californian Elitist said:






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I was going to say, PatF has been featured consistently since it came out.
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Disney Analyst said:
I agree, and I mean... there are a lot of theories and reasons for why the movie wasn't the box office smash it was expected to be.

- Marketing campaign did the movie dirty.

- Having the word 'Princess' in the title meant a chunk of the market (little boys) did not want to attend (I hate gendered norms, this is an unfortunate and dumb reason, but also why you see titles since like Tangled, Frozen, Encanto, etc.)

- Disney had not made a big fully animated musical movie in a long time, and the market hadn't fully swung back yet to enjoying musicals (just a subjective opinion on my part, Enchanted did better in 2007, but was a mix of live action/animation, and was sort of a parody).

- and as evident by what still happens these days when Star Wars includes BIPOC Women in the line up... I am sure in 2009 part of this also had to do with it being centred around a Black woman... Screw racism.

Needless to say, a lot of factors may have or did contribute to the box office performance, but this doesn't mean it is NOT a success today, and certainly doesn't preclude it from being used in a ride.
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Exactly. It seems that it has grown in popularity over time, for sure! The movie has its fans, for sure. And, again, it's still marketable. What's not marketable about a Disney princess that's already in the limelight? The only Disney princess that is arguably unmarketable is Eilonwy, but I don't even think Disney considers her a princess, and she would likely be more marketable if Disney gave Black Cauldron more attention.
 
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