News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
I think the only thing that saves the PATF songs is the singers. I don't think Randy Newman is a good song writer or singer. Even some of the lyrics in Almost There are...reductive. I think the singers and arrangements save what otherwise would not be good.
I think the problem with Newman's Disney songs is that they all feel kinda...samey? "You've got a Friend in Me" from Toy Story is an undeniable classic. But I don't know how on earth Newman snagged Oscars for "If I Didn't Have You" (Monsters Inc.) or "We Belong Together" (Toy Story 3).

He's definitely no Alan Menken.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I think the problem with Newman's Disney songs is that they all feel kinda...samey? "You've got a Friend in Me" from Toy Story is an undeniable classic. But I don't know how on earth Newman snagged Oscars for "If I Didn't Have You" (Monsters Inc.) or "We Belong Together" (Toy Story 3).

He's definitely no Alan Menken.

James and the Giant Peach was a Disney movie with better Newman songs.

The title music from Monsters Inc and the instrumental version of "If I Didn't Have You" that now play outside Tokyo Disneyland are great.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I think the problem with Newman's Disney songs is that they all feel kinda...samey? "You've got a Friend in Me" from Toy Story is an undeniable classic. But I don't know how on earth Newman snagged Oscars for "If I Didn't Have You" (Monsters Inc.) or "We Belong Together" (Toy Story 3).

He's definitely no Alan Menken.
I can't think of Randy Newman without remembering the MadTV sketch that weirdly captured his songwriting!

 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Honestly, the music is the best part of Splash Mountain — more so than the use of the Brer Rabbit stories. So I can see why if Disney was abandoning ties to SotS it would do away with the Brer Rabbit theme altogether.

While I support the retheme to Princess and the Frog, the one thing I will definitely miss about the OG Splash Mountain is the music. The Princess and the Frog has a decent soundtrack, but it doesn't have songs nearly as catchy as "How Do You Do," "Everybody's Got a Laughing Place" and "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah."
The music is great, but if that’s really the “problem”, there’s no reason they can’t just write new music and change the designs of the three Brer characters. It would certainly cost a lot less, and keep much of what people like about the attraction. It’s not as if the contents of SotS are well known within the main stream, so most casuals aren’t going to make the association with Brer Rabbit and the film (only Disney diehards will, as is the case now, and Disney diehards should know what is wrong with the film if it truly bothers them).

But as has been mentioned before, the main reason that they are doing the retheme is to tie another E-Ticket into the lucrative Princess Brand.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Despite getting two Oscar nominations for its songs, I don't think this take is controversial at all. Most people seem meh on the music.

Having said that, the PatF segment of Mickey and the Wonderous Book at HKDL was arguably the show's highlight and I liked the movie's float in Soundsational.
I like ‘When We’re Human’. It has a lot of energy and the singing is good, but nobody ever talks about it. Friends on the Other Side is also good. Dig a Little Deeper and the New Orleans song are okay.

I think it is praised within the Disney fan community because the films surrounding it don’t have amazing soundtracks. Can anyone name a song from Bolt, Meet the Robinsons, Chicken Little, or Wreck it Ralph? Tangled isn’t bad, but there’s only one or two good songs. And I’m sure most people are so tired of the Frozen soundtrack that they don’t want to listen to it anymore.
 

Disgruntled Walt

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I truly suspect that the Disneyland version was going to be changed and WDW's left alone. They had done it with Tower of Terror with minimal backlash (probably because DCA's Tower was always known to be inferior), and it makes thematic sense with New Orleans Square. I'd wager that WDW's Splash Mountain was thrown into this because of 2020 circumstances, and now they're realizing that the job is much bigger than before.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I think the problem with Newman's Disney songs is that they all feel kinda...samey? "You've got a Friend in Me" from Toy Story is an undeniable classic. But I don't know how on earth Newman snagged Oscars for "If I Didn't Have You" (Monsters Inc.) or "We Belong Together" (Toy Story 3).

He's definitely no Alan Menken.
I literally think all of his songs sound exactly the same. 😬😬😬😬😬😬 it's the same chords and notes over and over.
 

Disgruntled Walt

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I like ‘When We’re Human’. It has a lot of energy and the singing is good, but nobody ever talks about it. Friends on the Other Side is also good. Dig a Little Deeper and the New Orleans song are okay.

I think it is praised within the Disney fan community because the films surrounding it don’t have amazing soundtracks. Can anyone name a song from Bolt, Meet the Robinsons, Chicken Little, or Wreck it Ralph? Tangled isn’t bad, but there’s only one or two good songs. And I’m sure most people are so tired of the Frozen soundtrack that they don’t want to listen to it anymore.
Ironically, "Little Wonders," "One Little Slip," and "When Can I See You Again" are among my favorite songs (not as "Disney songs," but just in general), but your point is definitely valid. I remember being in the theater at age 12 during PatF and thinking during the opening song that I was witnessing the modern Lion King. Needless to say, I realized my mistake by the end of the film, and even more so in the years since. It's a nice movie, and the 2D animation is gorgeous, but part of why it was so beloved at first was the dearth of good films around it.
 

Disgruntled Walt

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Getting back to Splash Mountain here for a minute, when this was announced back in June of 2020, I reached out to Don Carson, one of the Imagineers of the WDW version of the attraction and asked him some questions about Splash Mountain, the retheme, and Imagineering. Here's what he had to say:

[In an introductory email, I asked if he would be willing to answer my questions]

I would be happy to answer your questions. Although I am sad to see the old Splash going away I am sure the designers at WDI will create a wonderful new attraction in its place. The "mountain" has "good bones" and I think it will support the changes they make, and the original did get a 28 year run so it isn't all sad news.

How did you join the team designing WDW's Splash Mountain, and what were the guiding principles (or directives) for starting your design? Given that it was a "duplicate" attraction, was the budget for WDW's version of Splash Mountain the same as the original?

I was assigned to Splash the very first day I joined WDI. It was meant to be a two-week assignment that included taking the Disneyland design and "cookie-cutter" it to the Florida site. The ride vehicle doubled in width which made the flume wider and the scenes smaller so everything needed to be re-designed to fit... and I ended up working on the project for two and a half years, right up to the opening. The budget was about the same, Tokyo's Splash was over twice as much since it included a lot more and encompassed an entire land.

It's clear that the design of the mountain's exterior is meant to fit more in the Frontierland theme, but what has always fascinated me about the three Splash Mountains is the log on top being different for each version of the attraction. Is there any particular reason for this? And who came up with the fantastic Hidden Mickey (side profile made of rocks) at the top of the lift hill?

Each attraction has a different rockwork designer. Ours was John Gauld and the look of the mountain and the tree atop it took on his style... hence the different designs. WDI designers seldom do out of their way to hide Mickeys, the on Splash is pure serendipity rather than by design.

The storyline in WDW's version is much easier to follow than the Disneyland version, due in part to the presence of Brer Frog in the queue and ride itself, as well as additional animatronics of Brer Fox and Brer Bear scheming to catch Brer Rabbit. There are other scenes omitted or added in WDW as well as much brighter lighting. How did you decide what to change, add or subtract from the story and the ride layout/set-up? How did this affect what could be re-used (dialogue, music, and animatronic molds)?

The advantage to doing the "second" version of an attraction is that you get to step back and learn from the first. We decided that the story needed help to make it clearer to an audience that might not be familiar with the Brair Rabbit stories, and we felt it was important to really create a contrast between the real world of Frontierland and the cartoon world of the film characters.

I had always been under the impression that the Tokyo and WDW versions were developed simultaneously, with the logs being so similar in their seating arrangement. But after viewing the Tokyo version on YouTube, it is more different than I would have expected. To what extent did you work with the Tokyo design team in crafting the sequence and look of the attraction?

Tokyo Splash's design was headed up by my friend Joe Lanzisero, in fact it was his storyboard designs for the scenes that Florida based our character placement on. The rest took on the style of the artists that worked on it. The two attraction models were built right across the hall from each other so they influenced each other's designs a little but Tokyo's is much more Fantasyland influence while Florida pulls more from the animation sequences in the film.

Was there anything in the plan for WDW's Splash Mountain that couldn't be or wasn't realized, and if you could change something about the way it turned out, what would it be?

I realized in hindsight that I could have changed Florida's design even more than I did. If I could do it again I would have made the Laughing Place an outside scene rather than a cave (which never appears in the film). At this point, this is mute as the Princes Frog will soon be residing in Chickapin Hill.

Looking at WDW and Disneyland now, what current project are you most interested in seeing completed? If you were working for Disney now and could propose and oversee a new attraction (either a replacement for something or an altogether new project), what would it be?

I'd bring the Peoplemover back ;)

Regarding the new Princess and the Frog attraction, I am looking forward to seeing what the Imagineers come up with (though I really wonder if Tony Baxter will actually have any input or if this is merely symbolic), but I do worry about whether they will be given a large enough budget to come anywhere close to Splash Mountain's level of detail and quality. Honestly, since the two versions of Splash Mountain are so different, it might be challenging for them to carbon-copy the designs.

I too look forward to seeing what the WDI designers come up with. I think they will do a splendid job. Tony is purely a consultant and I am sure he will be able to give his input. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the existing scenery since in both attractions this is all carved concrete. Time will tell.

[end of interview]
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Getting back to Splash Mountain here for a minute, when this was announced back in June of 2020, I reached out to Don Carson, one of the Imagineers of the WDW version of the attraction and asked him some questions about Splash Mountain, the retheme, and Imagineering. Here's what he had to say:

[In an introductory email, I asked if he would be willing to answer my questions]



How did you join the team designing WDW's Splash Mountain, and what were the guiding principles (or directives) for starting your design? Given that it was a "duplicate" attraction, was the budget for WDW's version of Splash Mountain the same as the original?



It's clear that the design of the mountain's exterior is meant to fit more in the Frontierland theme, but what has always fascinated me about the three Splash Mountains is the log on top being different for each version of the attraction. Is there any particular reason for this? And who came up with the fantastic Hidden Mickey (side profile made of rocks) at the top of the lift hill?



The storyline in WDW's version is much easier to follow than the Disneyland version, due in part to the presence of Brer Frog in the queue and ride itself, as well as additional animatronics of Brer Fox and Brer Bear scheming to catch Brer Rabbit. There are other scenes omitted or added in WDW as well as much brighter lighting. How did you decide what to change, add or subtract from the story and the ride layout/set-up? How did this affect what could be re-used (dialogue, music, and animatronic molds)?



I had always been under the impression that the Tokyo and WDW versions were developed simultaneously, with the logs being so similar in their seating arrangement. But after viewing the Tokyo version on YouTube, it is more different than I would have expected. To what extent did you work with the Tokyo design team in crafting the sequence and look of the attraction?



Was there anything in the plan for WDW's Splash Mountain that couldn't be or wasn't realized, and if you could change something about the way it turned out, what would it be?



Looking at WDW and Disneyland now, what current project are you most interested in seeing completed? If you were working for Disney now and could propose and oversee a new attraction (either a replacement for something or an altogether new project), what would it be?



Regarding the new Princess and the Frog attraction, I am looking forward to seeing what the Imagineers come up with (though I really wonder if Tony Baxter will actually have any input or if this is merely symbolic), but I do worry about whether they will be given a large enough budget to come anywhere close to Splash Mountain's level of detail and quality. Honestly, since the two versions of Splash Mountain are so different, it might be challenging for them to carbon-copy the designs.



[end of interview]
Thanks for sharing this. I hope his optimism is borne out by the end product.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
They are going to rip out the 68 animatronics and replace them with a few screens to save a lot of money on operation and maintenance using the fake excuse that they want to correct the racist theme.

Disney likes folks to think they are making the change for a higher purpose, but it’s just about MONEY.

How many years will splash mountain be closed for the re theme?

How much will an entrance ticket increase just in the time splash mountain is closed for the re theme?
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
I'm expecting this, but wouldn't be surprised if the opposite happens and they just reiterate their commitment to doing this and nothing else.
Maybe there will be some news in June, to coincide with the two-year anniversary of the announcement? If Disney doesn't say anything about the retheme, a bunch of clickbaity articles will probably start asking "Whatever happened to Disney's retheme of Splash Mountain?"
 

Midwest Elitist

Well-Known Member
Maybe there will be some news in June, to coincide with the two-year anniversary of the announcement? If Disney doesn't say anything about the retheme, a bunch of clickbaity articles will probably start asking "Whatever happened to Disney's retheme of Splash Mountain?"
Oh darn, if only people actually cared for what the media thinks anymore.
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
Oh darn, if only people actually cared for what the media thinks anymore.
I don't think people will care what individual journalists think, but reporters — with the aid of social media — could get Splash Mountain back into the conversation simply by reminding people of it.

While I do think the closure of Splash Mountain won't happen this year and the retheme won't be ready for several years, my point is that Disney may give a very VERY brief update in June just to remind people that they haven't forgotten the project. Similar to that concept art/roundtable chat update from August of 2021. You know, the 25 minute chat that actually revealed nothing substantial about the retheme and was just a bunch of PR fluff?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom