News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Placing it back to the reason for this thread existing:

People who are not thinking the retheme is of quality are fairly frequently, in this very thread asked to accept it because inclusion is most important in this spot, at this particular ride. Even if the quality in is lackluster.
That is the same issue. If you do not like the idea, you are often labeled as being passively racist.
 
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Trauma

Well-Known Member
I know it’s fun to call each other racist and all, but it’s very disheartening.

I feel like it’s so hard to have these conversations with the opposing point of view without it devolving into name calling.

I wish I was better with words to describe why this whole inclusivity thing is aggravating for me.

It’s something like this:

I welcome diversity in original ideas. That gives so many exciting and interesting opportunities for story telling.

What I don’t like - Here is a traditionally white character and we are going to race swap them.

Why don’t I like it?

Well it feels cheap. It feels like the message is “Your not worth putting in the effort for.”

It honestly makes me feel embarrassed.

Then there has to be this whole media push for how inclusive they are in this project that feels forced.

I don’t know maybe feeling that minorities deserve better makes me racist, who the heck knows anymore.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
If the topic of Splash Mountain brings up this much discord on racism then there is obviously a race related problem with the attraction.
What kind of logic is that?

flawed.

Many people thought a Disney theme park was a terrible idea, so clearly, with all that discord it was a bad idea to build a Disney theme park.

You could make the arugment the other way. It is why it needs to stay, because clearly no matter what people are going to presume someone does not like something because it is or is not racist.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I know it’s fun to call each other racist and all, but it’s very disheartening.

I feel like it’s so hard to have these conversations with the opposing point of view without it devolving into name calling.

I wish I was better with words to describe why this whole inclusivity thing is aggravating for me.

It’s something like this:

I welcome diversity in original ideas. That gives so many exciting and interesting opportunities for story telling.

What I don’t like - Here is a traditionally white character and we are going to race swap them.

Why don’t I like it?

Well it feels cheap. It feels like the message is “Your not worth putting in the effort for.”

It honestly makes me feel embarrassed.

Then there has to be this whole media push for how inclusive they are in this project that feels forced.

I don’t know maybe feeling that minorities deserve better makes me racist, who the heck knows anymore.
I haven’t been following the thread, but I can understand the issues with trying to further diversity by ensuring that minorities have different (separate) but even better (or at least equal) stories, rides, etc. I’m not sure any minorities are insulted by efforts to include them.
 
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Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Screenshot_20211120-152052_Chrome.jpg


Here's something to think about in terms of a timeline: Baxter initially came up with an idea in 1983, but the construction didn't start until 1987. The Disneyland version opened in 1989. That's 6 years from concept to opening. I mean, we're talking about the pre internet era and the genius of Tony Baxter, and the fact that good things take time. It takes time to do good work. Whether or not they are still capable of doing good work is another story, but they could maybe do a better job about not appearing so hapless.

Also, concept art is just that, concept art, not canonical law. Although on top of being hopeless, I think maybe they're not showing any more concept art because of how the internet is. One piece of maybe-art is going to be treated like a blood pact promise, and people are going to act like their birthright was denied because Tiana had different boots in the golden era of Deviant Art piece than she did on the attraction itself.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
To get back to Splash Mountain and follow up with my point in my previous post though. I again don't have any faith in Disney's ability to do this justice. The current leadership doesn't care about quality and most if not all of their creative talent in imagineering is also gone (they've also further tightened the wallet even since last year). And like the movies I mentioned, they'll lean hard on diversity as a crutch to sacrifice quality (and i'm sure it'll work on some people). The crutch also serves as a shield against criticism, we've already seen their Twitter defense force accusing critics of being sexists/racists and even laughing in spite about the matter.

I've read the conversation, thanks. I've also read past arguments involving the person you're saying Buford called racist. He uses the term "woke"...which is a term used by people who want to keep the status quo and who don't care about anything being remotely inclusive. THAT is where I think the issue lies. People who DO care about inclusion generally don't use that term because they don't see attempts at being inclusive as a negative. Yes, it can be done badly...but to automatically term something as "woke" after only having seen a trailer indicates distaste that an attempt was even made to begin with.
I'm a very progressive left leaning person myself. I don't like the term "woke" and have never used it, but it WAS invented by the progressive side. I've found that it was/is generally used by wealthy white liberals. The right also uses it now as an all-encompassing insult, but it doesn't belong to any one side (it just has a different meaning for each side).

If the topic of Splash Mountain brings up this much discord on racism then there is obviously a race related problem with the attraction.
There is a serious racism issue in this country (and honestly the world as a whole). And that's why i align with the left side of politics. But it is also true that there are people who are so engrossed in the topic of racism that they see it in things that simply don't have it. One famous example that comes to mind was when Sarah Silverman claimed on twitter that she found swastikas painted on a sidewalk, they were clearly not that and were in fact painted marks by construction workers. Splash Mountain is a perfect example of aggressively sensitive people trying to find issues where there simply aren't any.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I'm a very progressive left leaning person myself. I don't like the term "woke" and have never used it, but it WAS invented by the progressive side. I've found that it was/is generally used by wealthy white liberals. The right also uses it now as an all-encompassing insult, but it doesn't belong to any one side (it just has a different meaning for each side).
The one, single time I've heard "woke" used when it wasn't intended to be an insult was in a comedy special. I realize I'm just a person in the northeast of the US, but I know a lot of people in many different parts of the US and abroad, and I really think the term has been co-opted for longer than it wasn't.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
To be clear, the scenario you describe is very different from what played out here today. The post that sparked this particular discussion declared the film in question to be bad because of its supposed “wokeness”. The issue of race wasn’t imposed on what he said; he himself raised it.
I didn't spot any posts saying diversity was a problem, unless they were deleted. It was immediately specified in the next couple of posts that diversity was NOT an issue. I saw people saying "wokeness" was a problem, which has a variety of meanings depending on who you talk to. The issue again is when diversity is exploited in a cynical soulless corporate way and is used as an excuse to put out subpar product after subpar product. And then furthermore when the creators weaponize shame and insults to try and force people to like it.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
For those who say that creating new stories and characters is an inherently better approach than revisiting traditional tales, here's an interesting counterargument:

 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I don't think any reasonable person would think a character belongs to a race. I am not going to think it is wrong for a dark skinned girl to dress like Rapunzel, nor would I think it is for a boy like my son who is lighter skinned like my wife, to wear a Black Panther costume shirt because it is the character he is inspired by.
 

Dan Deesnee

Well-Known Member
I wonder why they didn't mention the retheme during D23???

Hmmm. Oh yeah that's right, because it likely isn't happening in WDW. This solidifies my opinion on that.
 

Dan Deesnee

Well-Known Member
It’s happening. They didn’t mention it because they don’t have anything new they are ready to announce or show yet.

We'll see. Huge expense, not needed, would shut down a headliner attraction for at least 2 years.

Not a lot going for it actually happening in WDW, but we'll see.

I lump this in with all the other cancelled / greatly reduced projects over the past 5-10 years.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
We'll see. Huge expense, not needed, would shut down a headliner attraction for at least 2 years.

Not a lot going for it actually happening in WDW, but we'll see.

I lump this in with all the other cancelled / greatly reduced projects over the past 5-10 years.
The original Disney press release states that changes to the attraction were very much needed:

Disney says that "The new concept is inclusive – one that all of our guests can connect with and be inspired by, and it speaks to the diversity of the millions of people who visit our parks each year."

 

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