News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Dear Prudence]

If the topic of Splash Mountain brings up this much discord on racism then there is obviously a race related problem with the attraction.

Almost nothing in the last few pages of this thread has actually been about the attraction.

 

[Chi84]

I know it’s fun to call each other racist and all, but it’s very disheartening.

I feel like it’s so hard to have these conversations with the opposing point of view without it devolving into name calling.

I wish I was better with words to describe why this whole inclusivity thing is aggravating for me.

It’s something like this:

I welcome diversity in original ideas. That gives so many exciting and interesting opportunities for story telling.

What I don’t like - Here is a traditionally white character and we are going to race swap them.

Why don’t I like it?

Well it feels cheap. It feels like the message is “Your not worth putting in the effort for.”

It honestly makes me feel embarrassed.

Then there has to be this whole media push for how inclusive they are in this project that feels forced.

I don’t know maybe feeling that minorities deserve better makes me racist, who the heck knows anymore.

I haven’t been following the thread, but I can understand the issues with trying to further diversity by ensuring that minorities have different (separate) but even better (or at least equal) stories, rides, etc. I’m not sure any minorities are insulted by efforts to include them.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Here's something to think about in terms of a timeline: Baxter initially came up with an idea in 1983, but the construction didn't start until 1987. The Disneyland version opened in 1989. That's 6 years from concept to opening. I mean, we're talking about the pre internet era and the genius of Tony Baxter, and the fact that good things take time. It takes time to do good work. Whether or not they are still capable of doing good work is another story, but they could maybe do a better job about not appearing so hapless.

Also, concept art is just that, concept art, not canonical law. Although on top of being hopeless, I think maybe they're not showing any more concept art because of how the internet is. One piece of maybe-art is going to be treated like a blood pact promise, and people are going to act like their birthright was denied because Tiana had different boots in the golden era of Deviant Art piece than she did on the attraction itself.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

To get back to Splash Mountain and follow up with my point in my previous post though. I again don't have any faith in Disney's ability to do this justice. The current leadership doesn't care about quality and most if not all of their creative talent in imagineering is also gone (they've also further tightened the wallet even since last year). And like the movies I mentioned, they'll lean hard on diversity as a crutch to sacrifice quality (and i'm sure it'll work on some people). The crutch also serves as a shield against criticism, we've already seen their Twitter defense force accusing critics of being sexists/racists and even laughing in spite about the matter.

I've read the conversation, thanks. I've also read past arguments involving the person you're saying Buford called racist. He uses the term "woke"...which is a term used by people who want to keep the status quo and who don't care about anything being remotely inclusive. THAT is where I think the issue lies. People who DO care about inclusion generally don't use that term because they don't see attempts at being inclusive as a negative. Yes, it can be done badly...but to automatically term something as "woke" after only having seen a trailer indicates distaste that an attempt was even made to begin with.

I'm a very progressive left leaning person myself. I don't like the term "woke" and have never used it, but it WAS invented by the progressive side. I've found that it was/is generally used by wealthy white liberals. The right also uses it now as an all-encompassing insult, but it doesn't belong to any one side (it just has a different meaning for each side).

If the topic of Splash Mountain brings up this much discord on racism then there is obviously a race related problem with the attraction.

There is a serious racism issue in this country (and honestly the world as a whole). And that's why i align with the left side of politics. But it is also true that there are people who are so engrossed in the topic of racism that they see it in things that simply don't have it. One famous example that comes to mind was when Sarah Silverman claimed on twitter that she found swastikas painted on a sidewalk, they were clearly not that and were in fact painted marks by construction workers. Splash Mountain is a perfect example of aggressively sensitive people trying to find issues where there simply aren't any.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I'm a very progressive left leaning person myself. I don't like the term "woke" and have never used it, but it WAS invented by the progressive side. I've found that it was/is generally used by wealthy white liberals. The right also uses it now as an all-encompassing insult, but it doesn't belong to any one side (it just has a different meaning for each side).

The one, single time I've heard "woke" used when it wasn't intended to be an insult was in a comedy special. I realize I'm just a person in the northeast of the US, but I know a lot of people in many different parts of the US and abroad, and I really think the term has been co-opted for longer than it wasn't.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

To be clear, the scenario you describe is very different from what played out here today. The post that sparked this particular discussion declared the film in question to be bad because of its supposed “wokeness”. The issue of race wasn’t imposed on what he said; he himself raised it.

I didn't spot any posts saying diversity was a problem, unless they were deleted. It was immediately specified in the next couple of posts that diversity was NOT an issue. I saw people saying "wokeness" was a problem, which has a variety of meanings depending on who you talk to. The issue again is when diversity is exploited in a cynical soulless corporate way and is used as an excuse to put out subpar product after subpar product. And then furthermore when the creators weaponize shame and insults to try and force people to like it.

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

 

[LittleBuford]

For those who say that creating new stories and characters is an inherently better approach than revisiting traditional tales, here's an interesting counterargument:

These Stories Are Ours, Too: Writing Black Characters into Fairy Tales - Reactor

What comes to mind when you hear Cinderella? How about Beauty and the Beast? Snow White? I bet each of those titles conjures up a particular vision related to a well-known cartoon mouse. Don’t feel bad if that’s the case; it is for me as well. Let’s take a look at why that is, for […]

www.tor.com

 

[celluloid]

I don't think any reasonable person would think a character belongs to a race. I am not going to think it is wrong for a dark skinned girl to dress like Rapunzel, nor would I think it is for a boy like my son who is lighter skinned like my wife, to wear a Black Panther costume shirt because it is the character he is inspired by.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I wonder why they didn't mention the retheme during D23???

Hmmm. Oh yeah that's right, because it likely isn't happening in WDW. This solidifies my opinion on that.

 

[peter11435]

I wonder why they didn't mention the retheme during D23???

Hmmm. Oh yeah that's right, because it likely isn't happening in WDW. This solidifies my opinion on that.

It’s happening. They didn’t mention it because they don’t have anything new they are ready to announce or show yet.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

It’s happening. They didn’t mention it because they don’t have anything new they are ready to announce or show yet.

We'll see. Huge expense, not needed, would shut down a headliner attraction for at least 2 years.

Not a lot going for it actually happening in WDW, but we'll see.

I lump this in with all the other cancelled / greatly reduced projects over the past 5-10 years.

 

[Phil12]

We'll see. Huge expense, not needed, would shut down a headliner attraction for at least 2 years.

Not a lot going for it actually happening in WDW, but we'll see.

I lump this in with all the other cancelled / greatly reduced projects over the past 5-10 years.

The original Disney press release states that changes to the attraction were very much needed:

Disney says that "The new concept is inclusive – one that all of our guests can connect with and be inspired by, and it speaks to the diversity of the millions of people who visit our parks each year."

Splash Mountain to be rethemed to The Princess and the Frog

The massively popular Magic Kingdom ride loosely based on Song of the South will be rethemed.

www.wdwmagic.com

 

[Dear Prudence]

It’s happening. They didn’t mention it because they don’t have anything new they are ready to announce or show yet.

I think they're really hopeless. Honestly, though, it's what they get for messing with things they have no business with in the first place.

 

[Kirby86]

I really want to know the time table. They announced it last June and since then we had 2 pieces of concept art and a video talking about how New Orleans has history in Disneyland. Now Toontown is getting a makeover. Now maybe I'm a little cynical but I'm going to guess Disney has no idea of a time frame.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I really want to know the time table. They announced it last June and since then we had 2 pieces of concept art and a video talking about how New Orleans has history in Disneyland. Now Toontown is getting a makeover. Now maybe I'm a little cynical but I'm going to guess Disney has no idea of a time frame.

They also tried to frame five hours of drinking on Bourbon Street as "research."....After they but honey on Beignets in the film the first time around. I am just not optimistic.

 

[CJR]

I really want to know the time table. They announced it last June and since then we had 2 pieces of concept art and a video talking about how New Orleans has history in Disneyland. Now Toontown is getting a makeover. Now maybe I'm a little cynical but I'm going to guess Disney has no idea of a time frame.

For something that was in development for years before the announcement, they certainly are doing a lot of "last minute" R&D.

My guess is that, truthfully, they had no serious plans to modify Splash Mountain prior to summer 2020 and pretty much started everything just prior to the announcement. Even Magic Happens, which debuted just prior to Disneyland’s closure, had a "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" portion in it. But, yeah, in development for years.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I am so tired of "inclusion" being touted when we all know Disney has no moral ground to stand on. PATF also sugar coats and yt washes Jim Crow. The La Bouff fortune comes from where, exactly, again? Facillier is evil because he practices "evil" magic (we all know why Haiti is demonized) and....doesn't want to work. Black cast members and guests alike have raised concerns about the racial profiling and harassment they received at the parks. The parks are pricing out families, and I am sure this especially affects non-yt families. So can we stop pretending it's something that it's not?

Is representation important? Absolutely. Is inclusion a must to move towards a better and more just and cohesive world? Yes. Is this it? No. There's a reason most of the BIPOC and POC on this thread stopped commenting, because people who present themselves as allies do nothing but talk down to and over us. Because God forbid anyone interject reality.

So, anyway, back to talking about how badly Disney is handling this. Splash Mountain, amirite?

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

In this forum at least, the term is almost always used pejoratively. I mix in circles where the original (positive) sense remains current, but that isn’t the case here.

Yes, the same forum that had to lock a thread about African American Santa.

 

[peter11435]

We'll see. Huge expense, not needed, would shut down a headliner attraction for at least 2 years.

Not a lot going for it actually happening in WDW, but we'll see.

I lump this in with all the other cancelled / greatly reduced projects over the past 5-10 years.

In the grand scheme of things the expense here is not that huge.

Many within the company consider it very much needed for multiple reasons.

There’s more going for it than you think

This is unlikely to get cancelled