Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[RCID]

I’m also offended that Japan treated American POW’s so horribly....yet Disney celebrates their history with a world Showcase pavilion!!!
(This is sarcasm to illustrate a point about where this is all headed...)

 

[CinematicFusion]

I have provided an example of elements in Splash Mountain that are offensive to me in previous posts. You not being offended doesn't mean someone else cannot be. And before the rebuttal of ppl are too sensitive is spoken...what right do you have to tell someone how to feel? Just saying.

Can you re-post again so I can see. I've never seen anything that offended me on that ride. This is the first time I've ever heard someone being offended by that ride. 90s,00s,10,s.....30 year old ride. Definition of classic.

What hurt you the most the first time you rode it? Did you ever ride it again? Did you complain instantly that day when you rode it on this board? I'm just curious.

 

[orlandogal22]

I haven't been shouting in agreement, but I have expressed support for the change. Yes, I have stood in the hot Florida sun (and a surprisingly cool Florida "winter") to ride Splash Mountain. I've been on DL's Splash more times than I can count. I always found the ride to be well done and very fun. I still find the ride's enduring connection to Song of the South to be a good reason to change the theme/story of the ride.

Thank you, as well, for your honest answer. I especially appreciate that you stated you ENJOYED the ride.

I believe that many on this board are leading us to believe they never rode the ride, never enjoyed the ride, and have completely been against the ride since its inception. Many of whom cannot point to one specific instance while riding the ride where they felt threatened, saddened, or outraged. We can all agree the source material - whether or not one states it's Uncle Remus or SotS - is controversial; we can also agree that the ride is - in and of itself and taken on its own merits - not.

 

[_caleb]

How noble. Now can we get rid of Cinderella Castle? Many of us are offended and it has a controversial, sexist past.

I'm not trying to be noble. I'm trying to participate in conversation about a theme park ride with fellow fans of the theme parks. I don't understand the snide, mocking tone people keep taking. Don't you want to have a conversation?

I honestly would be interested to know your actual thoughts on Disney's responsibility to respond to social pressures. As an insider in the entertainment business, surely you can see the challenges of public backlash (in any direction). It seems clear to me that you don't think Disney should change Splash Mountain, but do you think there's ever a time to react/respond to public outcry? If so, what would be the determining factor for you?

 

[RCID]

What about poor people offended by prices at WDW? Where is the MF'n justice?

I literally spit my drink out reading this...thank you for the laugh.

 

[Phicinfan]

I can't believe people aren't up in arms that Princess Tiana is getting the refurb treatment. The paste-on, half-***, re-decorate treatment.
Shouldn't she be getting the state of the art new ride? Wouldn't that be more of a statement from Walt Disney?

Yes and no.
Yes, she deserves a new ride, but No, since they have dire need to refurbish Splash due to potential risk with current theme, and they can use a much needed new IP in the park that addesses the key issue

 

[orlandogal22]

I'm not trying to be noble. I'm trying to participate in conversation about a theme park ride with fellow fans of the theme parks. I don't understand the snide, mocking tone people keep taking. Don't you want to have a conversation?

I honestly would be interested to know your actual thoughts on Disney's responsibility to respond to social pressures. As an insider in the entertainment business, surely you can see the challenges of public backlash (in any direction). It seems clear to me that you don't think Disney should change Splash Mountain, but do you think there's ever a time to react/respond to public outcry? If so, what would be the determining factor for you?

I am saddened by the decision. That being said, I also absolutely would love a Tiana attraction. Just not to cancel out the other.

I believe what many are finding issue with is the timing. Why now. Why in the middle of COVID-19. Why in the middle of a time when the parks aren't even open. Why when they're involved in countless other park overhauls, ride overhauls, new builds, etc. Why when it's possible CMs jobs will be cut. It only points to one answer. A knee-jerk reaction based on current events.

 

[The_Jobu]

What if your perspective is limited and your experience is not universal? When neighbors say, "This hurts me!" what if, instead of insisting "No, it doesn't!", we listened and responded by changing the hurtful thing so that the parks are fun for everyone?

That's the approach Disney makes with guests all the time. Able-bodied people never had a problem with curbs on Main Street or stairs in the Space Mountain priority access queue, but those things really hurt the experience of people with limited mobility (a "small minority" to be sure). Disney spent a lot of money to change these sorts of things (sometimes voluntarily, sometimes by force of legal action). After a minor inconvenience to park guests, the result is that the fun is accessible to more people.

I get that you're not offended by the association between Splash Mountain and Song of the South. Lots of people aren't. But some are, and Disney sees fit to address it now. We can (and will!) disagree with their proposed solution (Princess and the Frog overlay), but can you see how these kinds of changes can result in a better experience for all?

Or at least recognize that Disney is trying to sell access to its art and being associated with racism is dangerous to their business.

I appreciate your points, please allow me to make a sub-point.

Splash Mountain isn't hurting anyone, it's association with a film is what is upsetting. We can already see how this is a much murkier territory than people who physically are unable to go on a ride. For example, you say this leads to a better experience for all, but I fail to see how that is the case. A group of people (at least equal to the ones that are offended) are saying this will drastically decrease their experience with a beloved ride.

Now, it is a completely subjective value, but how many people need to be offended before it demands action? That cant be answered, hence debate.

This also brings up other difficult questions. Can good art come from bad art? Is it better to build something new and keep it next to the old, or must one be torn down? This doesn't even approach questions such as Disney's legitimacy in their anti-racism statements when they continue to do flagrantly racist things in other countries, as long as it brings them more money. Hypocrisy deeply upsets some people.

I appreciate your perspective, thank you for reading my own.

 

[MrHorse]

Ah, so you agree there's nothing wrong with Splash Mountain? That's useful, now we can shift discussion to the merits of good coming from bad.

If you could divorce the ride from the context, sure. A fun ride based on black folktales is a totally solid idea. The issue though, and the reason it needs to be changed, is that it can never be that. It will always be associated with the film, even if it doesn't actually recreate the bad scenes. The ride's history can't be changed. We either ignore it or deal with it.

And you'd do well to drop the "do it on the cheap" angle because they re-used AAs. It's an entirely new ride system, that's not cheap.

I wasn't really arguing the cheapness of things. Maybe I misread your post, it sounded liked you just weren't aware that the animatronics were recycled. I was only sharing some trivia. Fwiw, I think it's one of the better-made rides in the park. It may not have been the most expensive or complicated build, but it works extremely well.

 

[Panchito Pistoles]

Navi River Journey is the only attraction in WDW that I actually hate-ride. They spent enough money on NRJ to build an amusement park. It’s so awful, it makes me smile.
Everything Splash Mountain has, wonderful music, lovable characters, and a super-fun finale, Navi River Journey HAS NOT.

I’m terrified that Magic Kingdom’s tentpole attraction will become a forgettable walk-on. I’m puzzled that others are cheering this on.

 

[_caleb]

Thank you, as well, for your honest answer. I especially appreciate that you stated you ENJOYED the ride.

I believe that many on this board are leading us to believe they never rode the ride, never enjoyed the ride, and have completely been against the ride since its inception. Many of whom cannot point to one specific instance while riding the ride where they felt threatened, saddened, or outraged. We can all agree the source material - whether or not one states it's Uncle Remus or SotS - is controversial; we can also agree that the ride is - in and of itself and taken on its own merits - not.

A significant amount of work was put into making the ride different from (less offensive than) the Song of the South. So lots of people came to enjoy the ride for what it was without even really knowing much about the association with the film. But as a society, we're starting to realize (at least I am) that some of the things I enjoy are actually perpetuating things that I don't want to support. So I'm deferring to those who are saying the ride is hurtful and looking forward to a version of the ride that is fun for more people.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

This is exactly what I was saying earlier.. we need to bulldoze the entire park down ,and have nothing but robots if we never wish to find offense in anything.

Some people are offended by robots though, so that wouldn't work either. It would have to be an empty park with nothing, not even a grain of dirt or sand.

 

[The_Jobu]

If you could divorce the ride from the context, sure. A fun ride based on black folktales is a totally solid idea. The issue though, and the reason it needs to be changed, is that it can never be that. It will always be associated with the film, even if it doesn't actually recreate the bad scenes. The ride's history can't be changed. We either ignore it or deal with it.


I wasn't really arguing the cheapness of things. Maybe I misread your post, it sounded liked you just weren't aware that the animatronics were recycled. I was only sharing some trivia. Fwiw, I think it's one of the better-made rides in the park. It may not have been the most expensive or complicated build, but it works extremely well.

I appreciate your view that you find the association to be the source of offense. I was maintaining that the ride itself, is not offensive. I would like to see debate head in the proper direction after starting at the same place.

Dont worry about the cheapness, that stemmed from a misunderstanding with an earlier post who equated retheming with building a new ride with some old parts.

 

[orlandogal22]

A significant amount of work was put into making the ride different from (less offensive than) the Song of the South. So lots of people came to enjoy the ride for what it was without even really knowing much about the association with the film. But as a society, we're starting to realize (at least I am) that some of the things I enjoy are actually perpetuating things that I don't want to support. So I'm deferring to those who are saying the ride is hurtful and looking forward to a version of the ride that is fun for more people.

I can choose not to support something (racism) while concurrently enjoying something else (a MK ride) on its solitary merits.

Many things in life are connected to things that are unpleasant in our past; it is whether or not one chooses to inherently - and perpetually - dwell on the unpleasant so much so that we will be stuck in a constant cancel culture.

But I can respect your opinion.

 

[21stamps]

I'm not trying to be noble. I'm trying to participate in conversation about a theme park ride with fellow fans of the theme parks. I don't understand the snide, mocking tone people keep taking. Don't you want to have a conversation?

I honestly would be interested to know your actual thoughts on Disney's responsibility to respond to social pressures. As an insider in the entertainment business, surely you can see the challenges of public backlash (in any direction). It seems clear to me that you don't think Disney should change Splash Mountain, but do you think there's ever a time to react/respond to public outcry? If so, what would be the determining factor for you?

Can you see the irony in the princess replacement though? Tiana’s story may have had a more attemptingly-feminist twist over the original fairy tale, but at the end of the day, she chose to give up her lifelong ambitions, to live as a frog with a man. The happy ending doesn’t change that.

Disney parks are full of this kind of this patriarchal stuff.. and it’s ok...I’m not calling for their removal, but why not stick with a less patronizing more gender neutral theme if replacing an attraction like Splash. Or, better yet, why not recognize that not many (if any) are actually offended by the ride itself.
@orlandogal22 made a great point, no one can explain what is offensive about the ride itself.

 

[_caleb]

I am saddened by the decision. That being said, I also absolutely would love a Tiana attraction. Just not to cancel out the other.

I believe what many are finding issue with is the timing. Why now. Why in the middle of COVID-19. Why in the middle of a time when the parks aren't even open. Why when they're involved in countless other park overhauls, ride overhauls, new builds, etc. Why when it's possible CMs jobs will be cut. It only points to one answer. A knee-jerk reaction based on current events.

Yeah, I think the retheme has been in the works for a while. I understand that there are lots of these sorts of ideas and proposals and plans floating around all the time at Disney. The timing of the announcement doesn't seem suspect to me, it seems timely as a PR move to say, "We're listening and responding by finding racially insensitive material in our parks/media and removing them from the shelves." It's a business decision, of course, but also one that shows Disney is listening and paying attention. Though many here are arguing that Disney is paying attention to the wrong thing, I think they're looking really far into the future–much like they've done with representation in content on Disney Channel, Marvel, Star Wars, etc.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

What if your perspective is limited and your experience is not universal? When neighbors say, "This hurts me!" what if, instead of insisting "No, it doesn't!", we listened and responded by changing the hurtful thing so that the parks are fun for everyone?

That's the approach Disney makes with guests all the time. Able-bodied people never had a problem with curbs on Main Street or stairs in the Space Mountain priority access queue, but those things really hurt the experience of people with limited mobility (a "small minority" to be sure). Disney spent a lot of money to change these sorts of things (sometimes voluntarily, sometimes by force of legal action). After a minor inconvenience to park guests, the result is that the fun is accessible to more people.

I get that you're not offended by the association between Splash Mountain and Song of the South. Lots of people aren't. But some are, and Disney sees fit to address it now. We can (and will!) disagree with their proposed solution (Princess and the Frog overlay), but can you see how these kinds of changes can result in a better experience for all?

Or at least recognize that Disney is trying to sell access to its art and being associated with racism is dangerous to their business.

This isn't unreasonable at all. I do question if society is honest enough and mature enough to apply it fairly and equally though. I enforce regulations as part of my job. I find people aren't always thrilled when the shoe is on the other foot. Equality is obviously a good, noble purpose that should be strived for but I am not sure people always fully understand or appreciate what it really means.

 

[Joel]

The biggest outrage in all of this is that if they had to retheme Splash, they couldn't base it on the greatest (and most egregiously underrepresented at WDW) Disney movie of all time. By which, of course, I mean The Emperor's New Groove.

 

[The_Jobu]

The biggest outrage in all of this is that if they had to retheme Splash, they couldn't base it on the greatest (and most egregiously underrepresented at WDW) Disney movie of all time. By which, of course, I mean The Emperor's New Groove.

I think you mean to say Oliver and Company?

 

[_caleb]

Can you see the irony in the princess replacement though? Tiana’s story may have had a more attemptingly-feminist twist over the original fairy tale, but at the end of the day, she chose to give up her lifelong ambitions, to live as a frog with a man. The happy ending doesn’t change that.

Disney parks are full of this kind of this patriarchal stuff.. and it’s ok...I’m not calling for their removal, but why not stick with a less patronizing more gender neutral theme if replacing an attraction like Splash. Or, better yet, why not recognize that not many (if any) are actually offended by the ride itself.
@orlandogal22 made a great point, no one can explain what is offensive about the ride itself.

I'm glad you're looking at criticism of the Princess and the Frog. I think that's a valid concern and worth discussing. As with all stories (including Song of the South), there are different factors that we should consider. For example, the intent of the creators vs. the effect of the film (I don't think Disney filmmakers were trying to promote racism, but I do think the film perpetuates racist ideas).

We should also consider how the film is received by audiences. In the case of Princess and the Frog, the film was an attempt to create a story that featured African American characters in a way African Americans could identify with while also appealing to the mass-market. In that regard, it seems to have been successful. Building on that success (of creating something that connects with an audience), it makes sense to me that Disney would choose it as a replacement/overlay for Splash Mountain.

Also, thematically, it probably won't take as much work to fit the style.

I'm all for discussion about the merits of the film!