Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Horizons1]

Besides, if we as a nation cared for the choice that got the most votes, the Hall Of Presidents would look a lot different right now, wouldn't it?

Don’t worry. You’re going to have another four years to complain.

 

[orlandogal22]

The problem with that article is that the author states that the College was established to avoid choosing the President via the Legislature, except that if no majority emerges there (which, prior to the birth of political parties in the nation, was the most likely outcome), it would get kicked up to the House of Representatives (and has, twice).

Given the author attended Columbia, Oxford, and Yale; is an award-winning scholar and Pulitzer Prize finalist; and current professor of the American Revolutionary Era at Princeton (since 1979), I think I'll consider his "take" on the matter to be more worthy than your "problem" with the article.

Again, it was simply food for thought.

https://history.princeton.edu/sites/history/files/swilentz-CV.pdf

Sean Wilentz

Sean Wilentz studies U.S. social and political history. He received his Ph.D. in history from Yale University (1980) after earning bachelor’s degrees from Columbia University (1972) and Balliol College, Oxford University (1974).

history.princeton.edu

 

[Matt_Black]

Given the author attended Columbia, Oxford, and Yale; is an award-winning scholar and Pulitzer Prize finalist; and current professor of the American Revolutionary Era at Princeton (since 1979), I think I'll consider his "take" on the matter to be more worthy than your "problem" with the article.

Again, it was simply food for thought.

https://history.princeton.edu/sites/history/files/swilentz-CV.pdf

Sean Wilentz

Sean Wilentz studies U.S. social and political history. He received his Ph.D. in history from Yale University (1980) after earning bachelor’s degrees from Columbia University (1972) and Balliol College, Oxford University (1974).

history.princeton.edu

Oh, well if it's opinions from YALE that sway you, here's a rebuttal-

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1789&context=fss_papers

 

[Donaldfan1934]

Of course the petition against the removal of splash has more signatures, why would anyone else sign a petition for the removal after disney announced it was happening? It’s not the best way to judge who is for and against it imo.

Keep in mind the petition against the removal already had more signatures prior to Disney’s announcement. I know because I was keeping track.

 

[Chi84]

Keep in mind the petition against the removal already had more signatures prior to Disney’s announcement. I know because I was keeping track.

Why do people keep talking about petitions? It’s obvious Disney is not making this decision based on petitions or polls. Disney thinks it’s the right thing to do. Of course every company wants its customers to be happy, but the small number of die-hard Disney fans signing petitions or posting on these sites is likely not representative of the average guest. I’m sure Disney has looked at this from all sides.

 

[Matt_Black]

Why do people keep talking about petitions? It’s obvious Disney is not making this decision based on petitions or polls. Disney thinks it’s the right thing to do. Of course every company wants its customers to be happy, but the small number of die-hard Disney fans signing petitions or posting on these sites is likely not representative of the average guest. I’m sure Disney has looked at this from all sides.

And that's assuming everyone is acting in good faith and not using sockpuppet accounts to try and boost numbers for one side or the other.

 

[Willmark]

Besides, if we as a nation cared for the choice that got the most votes, the Hall Of Presidents would look a lot different right now, wouldn't it?

Or if that’s how we voted then it would matter.

 

[orlandogal22]

Oh, well if it's opinions from YALE that sway you, here's a rebuttal-

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1789&context=fss_papers

What opinion is necessary from Yale to "sway" me? I said Wilentz has been a professor at Princeton since 1979.

I was only offering food for thought as based on your initial statement. Nothing more. Nothing less.

(BTW, I'm registered independent so you don't need to "sway" me; I hold my own opinions with no D or R affiliation).

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Why do people keep talking about petitions? It’s obvious Disney is not making this decision based on petitions or polls. Disney thinks it’s the right thing to do. Of course every company wants its customers to be happy, but the small number of die-hard Disney fans signing petitions or posting on these sites is likely not representative of the average guest. I’m sure Disney has looked at this from all sides.

I have to disagree. I’ve been in these board rooms- please don’t believe that Disney is doing what they think it’s right- these are carefully discussed, strictly thinking about publicity or direct impact on revenue. This decision could only be motivated by those issues not by a company deciding to do something righteous or moral.

But I do agree that petitions don’t reflect the average guest because the average guest wouldn’t care at all about the theme of Splash and has no idea what it’s origins are (just another reason the change is odd). Or maybe the petitions do reflect that? Considering the people that want Splash changed reflect 0.0003% of the park going population?

 

[Chi84]

I have to disagree. I’ve been in these board rooms- please don’t believe that Disney is doing what they think it’s right- these are carefully discussed, strictly thinking about publicity or direct impact on revenue. This decision could only be motivated by those issues not by a company deciding to do something righteous or moral.

But I do agree that petitions don’t reflect the average guest because the average guest wouldn’t care at all about the theme of Splash and has no idea what it’s origins are (just another reason the change is odd). Or maybe the petitions do reflect that? Considering the people that want Splash changed reflect 0.0003% of the park going population?

Well I’ve had 36 years’ worth of experience with WDW vacations so I do have some basis for my opinion of the company and how it has operated through the years. Disney has always been progressive and inclusive. For example, the company went over and above in accommodating the disabled well before the law required it to the extent it does now. I believe the change to SM is a continuation of how the company has always operated.

But even if your theory is correct, the company is still doing what it wants - just for less exemplary reasons. Petitions aren’t going to change anything.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

Why do people keep talking about petitions? It’s obvious Disney is not making this decision based on petitions or polls. Disney thinks it’s the right thing to do. Of course every company wants its customers to be happy, but the small number of die-hard Disney fans signing petitions or posting on these sites is likely not representative of the average guest. I’m sure Disney has looked at this from all sides.

Is it obvious? Although Disney may have been considering doing this beforehand as claimed, they at least announced it as a reaction to the petitions and polls, which naturally brings their influence into the discussion. Such influence is particularly noteworthy given that the announcement occurred during a time of economic uncertainty where the company arguably would’ve been better off not responding at all than making a public declaration to spend money on a project that’ll cost them at least tens of millions of dollars. If you couple that with publicly available numbers on said petitions and polls, this comes across as Disney letting the demands of a vocal minority dictate major financial decisions even if they were eventually going to make the same decision regardless.

 

[Chi84]

Is it obvious? Although Disney may have been considering doing this beforehand as claimed, they at least announced it as a reaction to the petitions and polls, which naturally brings their influence into the discussion. Such influence is particularly noteworthy given that the announcement occurred during a time of economic uncertainty where the company arguably would’ve been better off not responding at all than making a public declaration to spend money on a project that’ll cost them at least tens of millions of dollars. If you couple that with publicly available numbers on said petitions and polls, this comes across as Disney letting the demands of a vocal minority dictate major financial decisions even if they were eventually going to make the same decision regardless.

Well if they’re swayed by petitions and there are so many more petitioners asking them to keep Splash as it is, they’ll change their decision. No worries.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well I’ve had 36 years’ worth of experience with WDW vacations so I do have some basis for my opinion of the company and how it has operated through the years. Disney has always been progressive and inclusive. For example, the company went over and above in accommodating the disabled well before the law required it to the extent it does now. I believe the change to SM is a continuation of how the company has always operated.

I mean, they're not as showy as, say, Ben & Jerry's. They tend to be quiet. Like they didn't make a big show of pulling funding from the BSA, they just released a very simple statement (not that that mattered to people who wanted to be outraged because of that).

 

[LittleBuford]

Apart from adding Wales, please! It is the only part of the main U.K. not represented. It is recognised as having the oldest language in Europe and has its own National dress, a fantastic flag and one of the finest anthems in the world!.

While I agree with you that some Welsh representation would be lovely, the bolded is a popular misconception.

Is Welsh the oldest language?

This misconception about Welsh is slightly different, in that it tends to be propagated by well-wishers who actually defend the language (you can’t say that this website is entirely one-sided!). Ma…

whywelsh.wordpress.com

 

[Matt_Black]

While I agree with you that some Welsh representation would be lovely, the bolded is a popular misconception.

Is Welsh the oldest language?

This misconception about Welsh is slightly different, in that it tends to be propagated by well-wishers who actually defend the language (you can’t say that this website is entirely one-sided!). Ma…

whywelsh.wordpress.com

If you want Welsh representation, you really need to be an RPG nerd in the 90s, because you couldn't swing a dead cat in a game store without hitting a book that had at least a passing reference to something Welsh. Old World Of Darkness in particular seemed very Welsh friendly.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

Well if they’re swayed by petitions and there are so many more petitioners asking them to keep Splash as it is, they’ll change their decision. No worries.

To be fair, I’m not saying your perspective is necessarily right or wrong. I just wanted to make it clear that an opposing perspective isn’t entirely unreasonable given the circumstances.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Well I’ve had 36 years’ worth of experience with WDW vacations so I do have some basis for my opinion of the company and how it has operated through the years. Disney has always been progressive and inclusive. For example, the company went over and above in accommodating the disabled well before the law required it to the extent it does now. I believe the change to SM is a continuation of how the company has always operated.

But even if your theory is correct, the company is still doing what it wants - just for less exemplary reasons. Petitions aren’t going to change anything.

You're assuming I have no association or experience with Disney from a guest or maybe perhaps even a business perspective. You're also assuming I haven't been privy to high level decision making at maybe perhaps Disney or any other similarly large corporation.

Are there some companies that make decisions out of moral ideas and righteous intentions? Yes.

Is Disney one of those companies? No.

And that's not meant to disparage Disney or some of the really good people that work there. It's just being pragmatic about the nature of a large corporation. A billion dollar public corporation has to be careful and calculated. It doesn't mean there aren't people that don't want it to be. It doesn't mean there aren't people in high levels that want to make these decisions because of some moral agenda. However, a company on Disney's level has many many many people that have to weigh in on the decision and at the end of the day, decisions are made solely on the merits of revenue, publicity, or marketing.

Some times those moral agendas can fit in those categories and they can "kill two birds with one stone" but the conversation isn't started because someone wants to do the right thing. There is no such thing as "moral meetings" ... there are marketing meetings, sales meetings, and finance meetings.

As an example, I am a part of two "minority" groups. Whenever Disney does something like provide special merchandise catering to those communities- my first thought isn't, "oh wow, they are being inclusive and they care about me!" No ... my first thought is "someone in marketing knows what I want" And they are right because I buy it all up.

Maybe I am cynical or maybe I am an old lady that has spent too many meetings in board rooms discussing these types of issues.

My point is, if you want to celebrate the decision to change Splash Mountain because you've boycotted the ride for all these years, go right ahead and celebrate the change. But I would strongly offer this advice - I would hesitate to celebrate the "decision makers" in Disney as if they were operating purely from altruistic places. Because in all likelihood this decision was motivated out of a place of marketing (PatF merch is easier to sell then SotS merch) and knee jerk publicity (BLM movement and the parks in DL not reopening).

 

[Chi84]

You're assuming I have no association or experience with Disney from a guest or maybe perhaps even a business perspective. You're also assuming I haven't been privy to high level decision making at maybe perhaps Disney or any other similarly large corporation.

Are there some companies that make decisions out of moral ideas and righteous intentions? Yes.

Is Disney one of those companies? No.

And that's not meant to disparage Disney or some of the really good people that work there. It's just being pragmatic about the nature of a large corporation. A billion dollar public corporation has to be careful and calculated. It doesn't mean there aren't people that don't want it to be. It doesn't mean there aren't people in high levels that want to make these decisions because of some moral agenda. However, a company on Disney's level has many many many people that have to weigh in on the decision and at the end of the day, decisions are made solely on the merits of revenue, publicity, or marketing.

Some times those moral agendas can fit in those categories and they can "kill two birds with one stone" but the conversation isn't started because someone wants to do the right thing. There is no such thing as "moral meetings" ... there are marketing meetings, sales meetings, and finance meetings.

As an example, I am a part of two "minority" groups. Whenever Disney does something like provide special merchandise catering to those communities- my first thought isn't, "oh wow, they are being inclusive and they care about me!" No ... my first thought is "someone in marketing knows what I want" And they are right because I buy it all up.

Maybe I am cynical or maybe I am an old lady that has spent too many meetings in board rooms discussing these types of issues.

My point is, if you want to celebrate the decision to change Splash Mountain because you've boycotted the ride for all these years, go right ahead and celebrate the change. But I would strongly offer this advice - I would hesitate to celebrate the "decision makers" in Disney as if they were operating purely from altruistic places. Because in all likelihood this decision was motivated out of a place of marketing (PatF merch is easier to sell then SotS merch) and knee jerk publicity (BLM movement and the parks in DL not reopening).

I wasn’t assuming anything at all about you; I just mentioned my own experience. I didn't challenge the validity of your opinion - I simply disagree with you.

I love the change because I believe it will be more inclusive and relevant to current guests. If Disney made the decision out of a desire for profit and publicly I’m okay with that. Either way the ride improves.

 

[Flugell]

I wasn’t assuming anything at all about you; I just mentioned my own experience. I simply disagree with you.

I love the change because I believe it will be more inclusive and relevant to current guests. If Disney made the decision out of a desire for profit and publicly I’m okay with that. Either way the ride improves.

Perhaps we should wait and see what the new ride is like before we say the ride improves. I am talking about the quality of the ride not the morality of either old or new ride. Until it is built how can you make such a claim?

 

[Chi84]

Perhaps we should wait and see what the new ride is like before we say the ride improves. I am talking about the quality of the ride not the morality of either old or new ride. Until it is built how can you make such a claim?

I was talking about the societal aspects of the ride, not its quality. I have nothing against the current version of Splash, but the characters always seemed outdated. I believe the planned theme will make Disney more inclusive and the ride more relevant to newer generations of guests .

With respect to quality, I can't say for certain or speak for others, but I'm rarely disappointed with the changes Disney makes (with the possible exception of Figment's Journey into what the h*ll). Possibly it's just my perspective. We visit Disney often enough that we look forward to experiences changing from time to time. I don't get emotionally attached to ride themes, shows or restaurants, although I can certainly understand why others do.

Based on my experience with Disney, I am optimistic that the new Splash will be done well. I know there are many on this board who think Disney has been going downhill since the day it opened, and they are very vocal. This is just my opinion. I don't want to start an argument about the Adventurer's Club.