Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[LittleBuford]

I appreciate the civil back and forth with you and the way you have approached our discussion. So thank you for that, and yes its okay we disagree on some issues ... but please don't change your username, ever. At some point we have to force people to think critically rather than us changing our lives based on personal whims that have no bearing on reality.

I liked your comment because I too appreciate your civil approach. I don’t agree with the assumptions underlying your last sentence, but that’s OK too.

 

[LittleBuford]

Bosley Crowther never wrote a review of a movie he didn't see. He was a cousin of mine and I had the pleasure of going to many movies with him and his wife during Summers at Martha's Vineyard. He taught me a great deal about early movies. He knew there were problems with Song of the South and many other movies from that time.

Fascinating—thanks for sharing!

I’m not sure if your opening sentence was directed at me, but just to be clear, I wasn’t suggesting he hadn’t seen the film (that suggestion came from another poster).

 

[Chi84]

On change.org there's now 65k signatures to save Splash, compared to the 21k to change it. The poll started by @TJ Vazquez almost shows the same result in that 2 of 3 voters don't necessarily approve of the change.

People don't care as much about signing a petition after they've won.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

The difference is that Peter Pan is a much-loved film that contains only a few problematic scenes. One’s main association with the movie isn’t the historical treatment of Native Americans (leaving aside the fact that the Indians of Neverland are fantastical anyway). Song of the South, by contrast, is much more difficult to disentangle from the historical and ideological issues that render it problematic in many people’s eyes, which is why Disney has essentially disowned the film these past thirty years (at least in the US).

Original MK harkens back to time when children engaged in playacting. The lands of MK pretty closely fit with the popular playacting games children often played. Sometimes they pretended to be astronauts, or jungle explorers, or pirates.

Back then, children were simply told to go play outside most of the time, and were otherwise mostly left to their own devices. If you were over the age of like ten, and had some minimal campfire-safety training, you were even allowed to light off firecrackers and bottle rockets. Boys had jackknives and cap guns. You just weren't supposed to actually stab each other with them.

I think most people nowadays have no clue, because most children don't playact. They don't roam as the once did, and they have more access to much better virtual games, and FAR more plastic toys than children did in the past.

Generally, the game of playing astronaut was you pretended your play area was outer space. Kids would pretend the floor was lava. So the game was that you'd try to walk/climb around your play area without ever touching the ground. We literally had a red carpet in our house, so it was easy to imagine the floor was lava. Much of the game revolved around debating which objects would 'melt' and which ones wouldn't and how long you could use each object before it melted. Couches didn't melt, but pillow sank quickly into the imaginary lava, usually faster than anyone could step on them! It also often ended in a debate whether women would ever be allowed in space.

Another game was to play 'princess,' Princess was mostly for girls. It involved getting into your mother's costume jewelry, make-up and dresses. It often ended when you realized your mom was going to kill you for spilling nail polish or breaking one of her lipsticks. Though boys also liked to pretend to be knights.

Another game was to pretend you were the characters of Tom Sawyer, but mostly just Tom and Huck. Much of the game involved setting up your fort. During recess, you maybe spent time deciding which part of the playground was what. Even better, you made your own fort out of blankets indoors or, if you were lucky, you made a real fort in the woods! Making a lean-to fort in the woods was the best!

Cowboys and Indians was another game. (I don't think the term "Native Americans" existed back then, or maybe it just wasn't well-known.) Pretending to be a Native American meant you wanted to be free, as in you wanted to be liberated from your parents and teachers. Both roles were generally respectable, but the cowboys were slightly less respected. Firing a gun was fun, but prowess with a bow was more respected. If nobody wanted to be the cowboy, then you could also pretend to be same/different tribes. Again, this could be played on a playground, but playing in the woods was best. This game was sometimes started when someone found a big feather, because a nice feather = a headdress. Often though, the game involved some kind of battle between the two sides.

In 2020, I'd say the depictions in the Peter Pan ride are an overt concern. When children pretended to be Native Americans they actually tried to be 'authentic.' Of course kids were far too naïve and uninformed to be authentic though, so the pretend version of Native American's is clearly based on stereotypes of real people.

Mind, I'm old enough to remember when Frontierland sold fake fur racoon hats and cap guns that actually looked like guns and rifles, and get this - the guns didn't even have bright orange plastic on the end.

It was a very different time. In some ways, today is much better. On the other hand, it feels like people have forgotten how to use their imagination.

That said, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of ranking anyone's unhappiness, discomfort, or pain against someone else's.

 

[seascape]

Fascinating—thanks for sharing!

I’m not sure if your opening sentence was directed at me, but just to be clear, I wasn’t suggesting he hadn’t seen the film (that suggestion came from another poster).

No, it wasn't directed at you but your post was more interesting. Thanks to Bosley both my sisters wedding announcements were in the NY Times and my sister Sharon's was in the Sunday Edition. Since she was married at the Vineyard, we had friends get up easrly and buy out all the stores copies. I am sure there were some unhappy vacationers.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

People don't care as much about signing a petition after they've won.

But there was that timeline they had prior to winning. And I could imagine the save splash peeps were sleeping too because they thought the idea of splash mountain changing was outlandish / unlikely.

 

[Chi84]

But there was that timeline they had prior to winning. And I could imagine the save splash peeps were sleeping too because they thought the idea of splash mountain changing was outlandish / unlikely.

Disney’s not counting signatures on petitions. They did what they wanted to do, maybe just a bit sooner than planned.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Disney’s not counting signatures on petitions. They did what they wanted to do, maybe just a bit sooner than planned.

Yeah I know, it was the ideal time for them. I still don't think it was the right move. Splash is a Disney parks icon and one of Tony Baxter's greatest achievements.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

What I find interesting is the overwhelming majority of this thread defends Disney's decision. Very vocally. When questioned they defend their position vigorously and attack the opposing position.

However when put to a vote on another thread with over 500 votes tallied. 70% are against this move.

Maybe there is a "Silent Majority" after all. Go Figure.

 

[LittleBuford]

What I find interesting is the overwhelming majority of this thread defends Disney's decision.

Really? I would say there are more posts criticising the decision than supporting it.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

For Toy Story Lasetter should be enough reason. The other Law enforcement and guns.
Big Thunder not only glorifies while simultaneously demonized the Gold Rushers, it also has the Indian Burial Ground and Ghost Locomotive backstory. It offends no matter what background!

BTMRR also has those canaries that were kept for flying into the mines to test the oxygen content...animal cruelty...you can't make this s**t up...

 

[Baloo62]

Who does this guy think he is?

He sounds like your garden variety arrogant, self-righteous hypocrite who delights in regurgitating an endless steam of PC buzz words to demonstrate his superior level of social enlightenment.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I decided to take a photo of it on my last trip. I think it adds a vintage sort of charm to IASW, and gets an excuse imo, because everything on the attraction is paper mache and painted plywood. It was meant to look like a child’s art project.

I don't know how generic ceiling tiles painted black could resemble a child's art project, but hey, art IS subjective, so....

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

I don't know how generic ceiling tiles painted black could resemble a child's art project, but hey, art IS subjective, so....

I guess I worded it strangely. To put it simple, everything in the attraction is simple. This includes the set pieces, animatronics, props, and the ceiling itself. Therefore imo it gets an excuse, unlike modern attractions with unattractive ceilings,

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I guess I worded it strangely. To put it simple, everything in the attraction is simple. This includes the set pieces, animatronics, props, and the ceiling itself. Therefore imo it gets an excuse, unlike modern attractions with unattractive ceilings,

Small world is largely the art of Mary Blair.
Ironically, she worked on Song of the South, plus Cinderella, the Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan. She earned a degree in illustration and later in fine art. She considered herself to be an artist, but was frequently employed as an illustrator.

She also did the art for many Golden Books.

Her art is certainly stylized. Specifically in the case of Small world, she was specifically aiming to represent complex cultures through simplistic visuals.

 

[Little Green Men]

Of course the petition against the removal of splash has more signatures, why would anyone else sign a petition for the removal after disney announced it was happening? It’s not the best way to judge who is for and against it imo.

 

[Matt_Black]

Of course the petition against the removal of splash has more signatures, why would anyone else sign a petition for the removal after disney announced it was happening? It’s not the best way to judge who is for and against it imo.

Besides, if we as a nation cared for the choice that got the most votes, the Hall Of Presidents would look a lot different right now, wouldn't it?

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Small world is largely the art of Mary Blair.
Ironically, she worked on Song of the South, plus Cinderella, the Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan. She earned a degree in illustration and later in fine art. She considered herself to be an artist, but was frequently employed as an illustrator.

She also did the art for many Golden Books.

Her art is certainly stylized. Specifically in the case of Small world, she was specifically aiming to represent complex cultures through simplistic visuals.

This is exactly why I get so upset when people call the attraction racist. I get that it’s chock full of stereotypes, but the entire point of the attraction is to view the world from a very small child’s perspective. A small child isn’t familiar with the complexities of every single culture. They view them in a simplistic manner. The average guest just assumes it was built that way because Walt wanted to mock other cultures, but that to me is utterly ridiculous. I wish more could understand why decisions like this were made, and that the attraction doesn’t need to be changed

 

[Flugell]

This is exactly why I get so upset when people call the attraction racist. I get that it’s chock full of stereotypes, but the entire point of the attraction is to view the world from a very small child’s perspective. A small child isn’t familiar with the complexities of every single culture. They view them in a simplistic manner. The average guest just assumes it was built that way because Walt wanted to mock other cultures, but that to me is utterly ridiculous. I wish more could understand why decisions like this were made, and that the attraction doesn’t need to be changed

Apart from adding Wales, please! It is the only part of the main U.K. not represented. It is recognised as having the oldest language in Europe and has its own National dress, a fantastic flag and one of the finest anthems in the world!.

 

[orlandogal22]

Besides, if we as a nation cared for the choice that got the most votes, the Hall Of Presidents would look a lot different right now, wouldn't it?

The electoral college exists for a reason.