Splash Mountain re-theme announced

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LittleBuford

LittleBuford

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In this thread as in others, I’ve found that people confuse acknowledging something with endorsing it. It should not be beyond us to agree on a common set of facts that are separate from our personal opinions. Without such a starting point, productive good-faith debate becomes impossible.
 
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thomas998

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
When you keep sharing something to prove your point, that seems like you are giving it merit. My mistake, but why share something that every piece of art has?(love and dislike)
People are well aware by now that the movie has always had some controversy because artwork always does along with the fact that Disney as a company blocked it from the US catelogs. Splash Mt was the third time the property was represented in the theme parks(fourth if you count outside the Disney theme parks using the Joel Chandler Harris Uncle Remus' stories as source material). And as an attraction was then featured in three theme parks. The company was not concerned enough to stop rereleasing it until 1986 where it was still making money in theaters. Home Video was just over ten years old and Song of the South, being an older movie was not a priority. For reference, another 40's film, Fantasia was not released until 1991. Disney finally caved out of fear and delayed the thought of home video again to where on the spot it was easier to just say we are not going to let this one out of the vault IN THE US. There was no complete avoidence of it as evidence by the fact that it was and still is avalible on home video purchase in other countries. Disney, like Sea World and other big companies essentially ingored the issue allowing the public to often be misguided further and hurting their business(in this case, it was locallized to one movie's sales in the United States only, not a hard cross for a big company to bear) That is how we get to the point of people making wild claims to the extreme degree of Brer Fox refuses to get a job within the story of Splash Mountain. DIsney created the Splash Mountain out of a molehill.
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I think this is one of those rare times when you should just click ignore on the poster. He seems dedicated to ignoring facts and refusing to acknowledge reality even when gift wrapped and documented.
 
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thomas998

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
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When asked to explain why he felt the characters of Splash Mountain evoked the negative African American stereotypes, he said this:

I added no words to this. How does anyone ever ride Splash Mt and see that Brer Fox refused to get a job? And then also adding because of the simple brute character style of Brer Bear he must also evoke those stereotypes, rather than just be a character trait. Matt apparently sees that as evidence of Brer Bears negative evocation. which is an incredibly racist thing to state.
It is very odd that he felt that is "literally" in the ride but never gave an example of dialogue or scenary that shows Beer Fox refusing to get a job or trying to make money by catching Brer Rabbit. and he was never able to why that would make the characters a race.
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You can pull up a complete copy of the script quite easily, the not wanting a job had nothing to do with bear being lazy. The reason he didn't want a job was that he already had enough money... so I guess some people don't accept that when you achieve your goal that you should have the right to stop working.
 
Matt_Black

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Willmark said:
Along these same lines as this thread, how long will it be before statues of Walt are brought down? And the company itself is renamed?

Far fetched? Maybe, then again, maybe not in today’s current climate.

Its going to be interesting what the response from the Disney fans will be should that come to pass.
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Ford isn't getting renamed, and Henry Ford was pen pals with Hitler. Can we please calm down with the slippery slope arguments?
 
MickeyLuv'r

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
BromBones said:
I know you're not picking on me.
Yeah, It's always somebody else's fault.
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That's not what I was getting at.

I was actually saying the opposite: according to today's thinking, we are all born guilty.

It is somewhat akin to the idea of original sin.

Though it appears some people are born more guilty than others. The current thinking isn't quite clear on how much guilt each person is supposed to feel. I haven't seen any clear metrics.

It is very Orwellian, VERY dystopian, and not at all in alignment with freedom of thought. Those who disagree are labeled thought criminals.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
aw14 said:
I’d say it actually is along the same lines. Just two years ago, everyone said that Trump was crazy for saying that statues of the founding fathers would be coming down. Now in 2020, here we are. Not so far fetched.
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I was asking how it related to this specific thread.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Sue_Vongello said:
Because it’s said Walt was anti-Semitic and misogynistic.
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I think what the comparison misses is that the parks‘ attractions are “living” in a way that statues aren’t. If a modern ride reflects (what some people perceive as) outdated attitudes, it is very likely that that ride will be modified or overhauled in some way. We’ve seen it happen many times before. The major difference this time around is that the opposition to Splash Mountain wasn’t nearly enough for any of us to expect this change.
 
Sue_Vongello

Sue_Vongello

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
I think what the comparison misses is that the parks‘ attractions are “living” in a way that statues aren’t. If a modern ride reflects (what some people perceive as) outdated attitudes, it is very likely that that ride will be modified or overhauled in some way. We’ve seen it happen many times before. The major difference this time around is that the opposition to Splash Mountain wasn’t nearly enough for any of us to expect this change.
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I agree! Thats the issue and I think that’s why people (including myself) take issue with the change. Here’s the fundamental truths:

1. You can’t control perceptions and nothing will ever please anyone 100%.

2. There has to be an acceptable reasonable amount of opposition.

In Splash Mountain’s case the opposition was so insignificant compared to everyone else. So the fear is where does it stop? That’s why Walt was brought up, that’s why Peter Pan is referenced, and Jungle Cruise, and Snow White and on and on ... there are problematics elements to everything, there are things that can offend anyone in anything ... so there has to be a line at some point.
 
BoarderPhreak

BoarderPhreak

Well-Known Member
Very few people correlate Splash Mountain and Song of the South and even less have seen the latter. The ride is as uncontroversial as Disney could make it, even by today's standards, when compared to the movie. To that end, you could say it's its own, separate IP and identity. That said, I get it. I can understand why people want it changed and I can understand Disney's reason for doing it. Minor changes wouldn't be enough because it would still be sourced from the movie. And what exactly, would you change anyway? All that's left are a song and the animated characters.

Best to start clean with more modern IP, as much as it pains me to say that (despite always being an IP ride) or that Disney should change a classic ride. The replacement IP sounds fitting, uplifting and wouldn't degrade the experience if done right; it sounds like they've been working on it for a while, so not a rushed makeover (as I feel FEA in Norway was).

But really, there are good points to both sides. This is a tough one. The main consideration being, "where is the line?"
 
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