Splash Mountain falling apart (literally?)

[doctornick]

I also know that there in fact were extra magic hours 10 and 20 years ago -- they were the critical part of our visits to the world where our then toddler kids (now 19 & 23) could get onto Dumbo & PeterPan before the lines got too crazy.

I'd be open to be corrected, but I'm almost certain you are wrong. There was E-ticket nights (an extra fee option) about 15 years ago which eventually morphed into EMH. But EMH haven't been around for much more than a decade, maybe 12 years or so at most.

 

[erasure fan1]

If you truly think Disney quality is lacking, and not really nitpicking like you are, I invite you to take a trip to the IOA or the Studios and then get back to me about total show experience. Things like Disney Springs, Fantasy Land, NexGen, Avatar Land, DVC, etc are getting done and showing a commitment to reinvestment in the property. Think of the property back in 1990 and then today, look at the growth and expansion of quality world class attractions and experiences (maybe even Stich). Now can you really tell me that a Yeti that doesn't move or a frog that doesn't speak means that its all falling apart and coming of the hinges?

I'm probably not going to able to convince you of anything, because it's always more fun to complain about things and stick it to the man, or mouse rather than to say whats working out well.

As I won't be able to change your mind, but I really don't think the complaints about splash are "nitpicking". You make it seem as if a few minor things haven't worked on splash. It's a whole lot more than that whether you want to admit it or not. If you believe Disney is doing everything they can, then so be it. I will continue to hold them to the standards they set, good or bad. I guess we can agree to disagree as they say.

 

[Gabe1]

I'd be open to be corrected, but I'm almost certain you are wrong. There was E-ticket nights (an extra fee option) about 15 years ago which eventually morphed into EMH. But EMH haven't been around for much more than a decade, maybe 12 years or so at most.

Well no, that post isn't correct, not really. These were E-ticket nights. They started at $10 on select nights for a few extra hours of magic and then creeped up to $15 for those hours. You received a band when you paid the fee.

 

[Clever Name]

Harry Potter....mythos....Have you been to IOA? There's roughly two-three e-tickets.

If your argument is really along the lines of they have so much competition they should be more careful, then shouldn't they be ramping up their game more than ever? It's difficult to blame them for slacking off a few years ago, but the second Harry Potter was announced they should have been on their feet creating something that will draw in just as much, if not more attendance than Potter.

Quality is a great business plan, period. It's glaringly obvious that the regular maintenance that has already been discussed has been cut. That doesn't scream quality to me. And Transformers and Harry Potter Part 2 are going to continue to draw more and more folks down the road. What happens then? It might also be worth noting that the first two Christmases Harry Potter was open were the two worst Christmases as far as attendance goes in recent memory at Walt Disney World. What's going to happen when they have even more competition? "We're already the best, just come anyway" Might not work as a business plan for much longer.

I think WDW needs to slack off some more. Complaints are common now that there is no off season and the crowds are increasing every year. It would be a better guest experience if the crowds were reduced. Yet even with all the broken and poorly maintained attractions, they still do record business.

For example, MK is full of old and boring attractions such as Tiki Room, CBJ, CoP , SFT and MILF yet it continues to be the number one theme park in the world. You would think that such old and stale attractions would cause a reduction in guests. If TDO took all those stale attractions out and replaced them with meet and greets, the visitation would be so high that the current parking and transportation facilities would be unable to handle the crowds.

I think TDO uses poor maintenance, lousy food, high ticket prices, broken and boring attractions and unfriendly CM's as management tools to make sure that visitation remains at tolerable levels and as a result all guests benefit from having a more pleasurable experience.

 

[dhall]

I'd be open to be corrected, but I'm almost certain you are wrong. There was E-ticket nights (an extra fee option) about 15 years ago which eventually morphed into EMH. But EMH haven't been around for much more than a decade, maybe 12 years or so at most.

At least part of one park was open to resort guests for an hour or 90 minutes before it was open to those not staying on property -- I seem to remember it went under the name "Magic Mornings" or something like that. More recently, it morphed into some mornings & some evenings, and this is the program that was renamed "Extra Magic Hours".

When it was the Magic Kingdom, it was Fantasyland (or Fantasyland & Tomorrowland) that was open, and it was about the only time you could ever walk straight on to Dumbo.

Here's a guidebook from 1993 that mentions it:
http://www.florida-project.com/images/wdw/guides/1993/wdw-guide-1993-06.jpg

 

[articos]

At least part of one park was open to resort guests for an hour or 90 minutes before it was open to those not staying on property -- I seem to remember it went under the name "Magic Mornings" or something like that. More recently, it morphed into some mornings & some evenings, and this is the program that was renamed "Extra Magic Hours".

When it was the Magic Kingdom, it was Fantasyland (or Fantasyland & Tomorrowland) that was open, and it was about the only time you could ever walk straight on to Dumbo.

Here's a guidebook from 1993 that mentions it:
http://www.florida-project.com/images/wdw/guides/1993/wdw-guide-1993-06.jpg

Back in the day, there was Early Entry, then Surprise Mornings, (might have been vice versa, don't remember) which opened a park approx 1 hr early. Magic Mornings is the DLR version of EMH currently - don't remember if Magic Mornings was ever used as terminology at WDW. The paid night version was 'E-Ride Nights'.

 

[marni1971]

See now that's the problem. Everything for you is a new "fast buck". TDO can do no right for you. However, love'm or hate'm they are in a cut throat business with the guys up I-4.

Those items show TDO is interested in growth but also adding a uniqueness that is only Disney. I'm not a shopper, but a lot of people love to shop on vacation, great idea, looks nice on paper go for it. Fantasy Land, considering the financial environment it had to evolve from, it turned out great and it's not done yet. NexGen, is a great foundation for redefining the guests experience that's never been done.

Fantasyland is returning far lower guest survey results than were hoped for (compared to the budget)
NextGen is still not working correctly and there are a lot of upper managements at WDWco questioning it now.
TDO can do plenty right. I've said so where applicable. The business model of the parks being secondary to the resort is an ultimate fail and has to be the complete opposite of what's needed to compete with the folks up I-4.

 

[Snowflake82]

I think WDW needs to slack off some more. Complaints are common now that there is no off season and the crowds are increasing every year. It would be a better guest experience if the crowds were reduced. Yet even with all the broken and poorly maintained attractions, they still do record business.

For example, MK is full of old and boring attractions such as Tiki Room, CBJ, CoP , SFT and MILF yet it continues to be the number one theme park in the world. You would think that such old and stale attractions would cause a reduction in guests. If TDO took all those stale attractions out and replaced them with meet and greets, the visitation would be so high that the current parking and transportation facilities would be unable to handle the crowds.

I think TDO uses poor maintenance, lousy food, high ticket prices, broken and boring attractions and unfriendly CM's as management tools to make sure that visitation remains at tolerable levels and as a result all guests benefit from having a more pleasurable experience.

I would like this post if was sure that it was sarcasm. Sometimes I don't know how to read you, Clever Name.

 

[PeterAlt]

Fantasyland is returning far lower guest survey results than were hoped for (compared to the budget)
NextGen is still not working correctly and there are a lot of upper managements at WDWco questioning it now.
TDO can do plenty right. I've said so where applicable. The business model of the parks being secondary to the resort is an ultimate fail and has to be the complete opposite of what's needed to compete with the folks up I-4.

There are folks up the road?

 

[PeterAlt]

I think WDW needs to slack off some more. Complaints are common now that there is no off season and the crowds are increasing every year. It would be a better guest experience if the crowds were reduced. Yet even with all the broken and poorly maintained attractions, they still do record business.

For example, MK is full of old and boring attractions such as Tiki Room, CBJ, CoP , SFT and MILF yet it continues to be the number one theme park in the world. You would think that such old and stale attractions would cause a reduction in guests. If TDO took all those stale attractions out and replaced them with meet and greets, the visitation would be so high that the current parking and transportation facilities would be unable to handle the crowds.

I think TDO uses poor maintenance, lousy food, high ticket prices, broken and boring attractions and unfriendly CM's as management tools to make sure that visitation remains at tolerable levels and as a result all guests benefit from having a more pleasurable experience.

Now that's smart management at its pinnacle!

 

[monothingie]

Fantasyland is returning far lower guest survey results than were hoped for (compared to the budget)
NextGen is still not working correctly and there are a lot of upper managements at WDWco questioning it now.
TDO can do plenty right. I've said so where applicable. The business model of the parks being secondary to the resort is an ultimate fail and has to be the complete opposite of what's needed to compete with the folks up I-4.

Other than rummors, speculation, and third-hand information could you provide any specifics, proof or sources other than "some in top management"? I would accept that maybe if a bus driver told you this or you have placed bugs in TDO. IDK

 

[monothingie]

Harry Potter....mythos....Have you been to IOA? There's roughly two-three e-tickets.

If your argument is really along the lines of they have so much competition they should be more careful, then shouldn't they be ramping up their game more than ever? It's difficult to blame them for slacking off a few years ago, but the second Harry Potter was announced they should have been on their feet creating something that will draw in just as much, if not more attendance than Potter.

Quality is a great business plan, period. It's glaringly obvious that the regular maintenance that has already been discussed has been cut. That doesn't scream quality to me. And Transformers and Harry Potter Part 2 are going to continue to draw more and more folks down the road. What happens then? It might also be worth noting that the first two Christmases Harry Potter was open were the two worst Christmases as far as attendance goes in recent memory at Walt Disney World. What's going to happen when they have even more competition? "We're already the best, just come anyway" Might not work as a business plan for much longer.

I guess where we differ is, you see competition as just a battle of the attractions. IOA got this ride so the MK has to get another new thing plus another. That has never been the strategy for TDO. It has always been about providing a greater overall experience. Shopping, Dining, Entertainment are things I would argue Disney is excelling at. Consistently the rides have always been a part of this, but Disney is not as heavily dependent on them as our Comcast friends up I-4. You mention HP and attendance it's initial attendance impact. Unfortunately you frame it in a manner that does not look at the broader picture, economy and relative performance of the guys at USO. If you have a relatively new park with little to begin with, and phase in a cluster of new attractions in a short time, then percentage wise you're going to see growth. The real measure of success is to maintain that growth, something that has continually been done by Disney in its parks and attractions.

 

[drew81]

Other than rummors, speculation, and third-hand information could you provide any specifics, proof or sources other than "some in top management"? I would accept that maybe if a bus driver told you this or you have placed bugs in TDO. IDK

Respectfully, Martin doesn't need to provide sources. No one with connections needs to.

There are many on here with connections and you can usually tell by what they post. Check his post history and you will see what he says is legit.

 

[BryceM]

I guess where we differ is, you see competition as just a battle of the attractions. IOA got this ride so the MK has to get another new thing plus another. That has never been the strategy for TDO. It has always been about providing a greater overall experience. Shopping, Dining, Entertainment are things I would argue Disney is excelling at. Consistently the rides have always been a part of this, but Disney is not as heavily dependent on them as our Comcast friends up I-4. You mention HP and attendance it's initial attendance impact. Unfortunately you frame it in a manner that does not look at the broader picture, economy and relative performance of the guys at USO. If you have a relatively new park with little to begin with, and phase in a cluster of new attractions in a short time, then percentage wise you're going to see growth. The real measure of success is to maintain that growth, something that has continually been done by Disney in its parks and attractions.

Have you not been to Universal Orlando? It offers all of the things that you just mentioned that Disney offers, such as shopping, dining and entertainment. Universal also excels at these.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'd be open to be corrected, but I'm almost certain you are wrong. There was E-ticket nights (an extra fee option) about 15 years ago which eventually morphed into EMH. But EMH haven't been around for much more than a decade, maybe 12 years or so at most.

No need to correct, you're absolutely right. E-Ticket nights were a hard ticket event (lasted 1997-2004) had a few rides like the Mountains and The Extraterrorestial Alien Encounter open in during select evenings.

According to the good folks at MousePlanet...

Although the group of E-Ride attractions changes from time to time, they are usually Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Country Bear Jamboree, Haunted Mansion, Buzz Lightyear, Space Mountain, Astro-Orbiter, Tommorrowland Transit Authority, and Alien Encounter. Jungle Cruise and Pirates of the Caribbean sometimes replace one of the other attractions.

MP also says tickets were $12 and limited to 5000 resort guests.

Resort guests had EMH on select mornings only. Somewhere along the line, E-Ride nights went away and EMH evenings came about as an entitlement for staying on property.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Other than rummors, speculation, and third-hand information could you provide any specifics, proof or sources other than "some in top management"? I would accept that maybe if a bus driver told you this or you have placed bugs in TDO. IDK

Martin has sources that are usually right. He has a big track record of being right.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Fantasyland is returning far lower guest survey results than were hoped for (compared to the budget)
NextGen is still not working correctly and there are a lot of upper managements at WDWco questioning it now.
TDO can do plenty right. I've said so where applicable. The business model of the parks being secondary to the resort is an ultimate fail and has to be the complete opposite of what's needed to compete with the folks up I-4.

This is something that management doesnt get..... Its not enough, yet.

What did NewFant do? We added a restaurant. Very beautiful, good food, great theming and is booked many months out. We moved Enchanted tales with Belle (from near Cosmic Rays) and made it fantastic.... but there's a huge line. We added Mermaid & moved grotto..... only thats a cloned attraction from somewhere else.

Oh yeah, we're going to take out an attraction and replace it with another meet & greet (guests love those Princesses)... but that wont be open for months. And we're building a roller coaster! But that wont be open until next year.

So exactly, other than "Oh Its Really Pretty".... the general consensus that I've overheard from other guests is "Thats It?" and "Its really crowded back here"

Maybe things will change once everything is opened, but I really think that this expansion simply makes up for the 10 years where they essentially ignored MK other than small attractions. They're playing catch-up & I'm not sure what they can do to get their "Buzz" back. Beyond spending some money and doing things the right way.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The real measure of success is to maintain that growth, something that has continually been done by Disney in its parks and attractions.

MK attendance has been flat over the past 3 years. Around 17.1 million (2011)

 

[wm49rs]

This is something that management doesnt get..... Its not enough, yet.

What did NewFant do? We added a restaurant. Very beautiful, good food, great theming and is booked many months out. We moved Enchanted tales with Belle (from near Cosmic Rays) and made it fantastic.... but there's a huge line. We added Mermaid & moved grotto..... only thats a cloned attraction from somewhere else.

Oh yeah, we're going to take out an attraction and replace it with another meet & greet (guests love those Princesses)... but that wont be open for months. And we're building a roller coaster! But that wont be open until next year.

So exactly, other than "Oh Its Really Pretty".... the general consensus that I've overheard from other guests is "Thats It?" and "Its really crowded back here"

Maybe things will change once everything is opened, but I really think that this expansion simply makes up for the 10 years where they essentially ignored MK other than small attractions. They're playing catch-up & I'm not sure what they can do to get their "Buzz" back. Beyond spending some money and doing things the right way.

Good Lord man, you forgot about the new Tangled bathrooms!

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

So this is on track to re open tomorrow or Tuesday? If one of us on here goes tomorrow or Tuesday, they should film a video of Splash and post it on here.