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Splash Mountain falling apart (literally?)
- Thread starter MUTZIE77
- Start date
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Sure. Sorry I couldn't find the original one I talked about with working pictures. But with google it's easy to find lots of old articles or threads involving really poor maintenance and fan complaints about Disneyland during the Paul Pressler era. I'd say the fanbase for WDW doesn't compare to Disneyland's fans in terms of anger and loyalty when someone messes with their parks. I'd say WDW's is downright mellow and indifferent compared to that. I don't blame the Disneyland fans for how they felt during that era at all. I feel much the same about WDW that they do about Disneyland (not to the extent of wanting to deface property but I can identify with the feeling of indignation at having something you love so disrespected and abused by poor leadership).
openendedsky
Well-Known Member
I've just spent the last two hours reading through this thread-phew!
On another note, my boyfriend and I just got annual passes (we live very close), so if there are any visual updates I'll be sure to post photos.
On another note, my boyfriend and I just got annual passes (we live very close), so if there are any visual updates I'll be sure to post photos.
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
See, but we're thinking they're guilty before they're even able to commit crime. In this country, we're innocent until proven guilty and somebody has to actually commit a crime before it's taken to court. Here, a crime hasn't even been committed "yet"' but we're still dragging them to a court where it's already been decided: "GUILTY!" Yes, they've been guilty in the past but the Statute of Limitations has run out and that "crime" wasn't even committed by the same people that's in charge now! Looking at the most recent projects: FLE, TT2, TSM, ST2, etc., I'd say they've been doing a lot better than before!
You mentioned the team in CA and the problems they were having under Cynthia Harris and Paul Pressler. You offered that as a point of comparison to the current team at WDW. I'm not defending the current FL team, but you can't compare them to what CA had. It was pretty bad over there. At its worse, they would have loved to have traded those problems with the "problems" we currently face!
Oh, by the way, I lied earlier. I said I wasn't targeting anyone specific, when I referred to the caricature of grumpy WDW fans as fictitious. Well, that's not true. There is someone that I am specifically addressing. Scratch that. There's TWO people specifically that I speak about. The two I speak of are by far amongst the grumpiest people I've ever known! Yes, they're out there... In the audience... In the Box Seats, over there, down below... Oh, there they are!
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
You're talking apples and oranges here. The stuff that you bring up that has been added was NOT added by TDO but was forced on them by Burbank.
Team Disney Orlando HAS been responsible for cutting maintenance budgets to the bone in order to justify large yearly bonuses for their selves.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
The projects you mentioned were all essentially forced upon the leadership team at WDW. It has been reported by the insiders here that TDO didn't want anything to do with the Fantasyland Expansion, it was forced on them by Burbank. WDW's leaders were kicking and screaming the entire way and constantly fighting to get the budget mutilated, which they apparently succeeded in doing in ways. Test Track 2.0 was funded exclusively by GM as also well known here, Disney didn't really have a hand in paying for that one at all. Star Tours 2.0 was also forced upon WDW by Burbank against their will like the FLE. Toy Story Mania I don't know the story of, odds are it was also forced upon WDW management against their will. And I wouldn't personally say I was impressed by it regardless (probably the most disappointing ride i've ever waited in a ridiculously long line for).
In terms of maintenance, WDW in recent years has easily been as bad or worse than Disneyland was during the Pressler/Harris days. While other parks have improved around the world since Eisner left the company (even Disneyland Paris in the recent past was given a massive cleanup in time for its anniversary), WDW has stayed the same and its problems have escalated. There's a discrepancy among the way WDW and DL are now run. Largely because WDW management hasn't been policed by Burbank and were allowed to run around with their budget cutting policies unchecked. Only very recently have we seen any indication that the parents are starting to watch the kids more closely on the WDW side of things. Hopefully this continues as WDW receives new leadership and the refurbishment of the parks escalates.
The biggest difference between DL and WDW management woes is the unfortunate deaths that ended up occurring at DL due to poor maintenance. However, especially in regards to the Columbia incident, it has largely been luck that has prevented a similar tragedy at WDW thus far. At WDW in the past year or so there have been at least two instances of concrete that broke off and fell in guest-frequented areas on Tree of Life and Splash Mountain due to improper maintenance (not to mention the light that fell on the track at Everest). Tree of Life's rock thankfully fell after hours when the park was closed, but could just as easily have broken off during park hours. Splash Mountain's fell in the loading area while the ride was open and operating with guests in the area, it apparently fell in the canal (the ride was closed for the day afterwards). It could have easily have hit someone and injured or possibly killed them had it not fallen in that brief instance when a log wasn't under that position. The dangerous situations at DL and WDW both had fatal potential, it was simply chance that has prevented such a situation at WDW.
I brought those dark days at DL up as an example of how DL fans are NOT mellow people by any stretch like you suggested they are. When given something to complain about, they do it very loudly. And prior to its refurb, Indiana Jones has been a target of their criticism in recent years. Hell, it was a Disneyland fan on Micechat that took the recent pictures of Maelstrom's deplorable condition while on a vacation to WDW. If anything they're much more organized and outspoken about their indignation and anger than WDW fans when their park is threatened by cheapness (rightfully so). When incompetent maintenance actually threatens the safety of guests, it's completely understandable for people to become angry.
I've levied criticism about the management team of the past several years. It's relatively well known who to blame in those instances. I'm not going to criticize the future management team unless they continue down this same path. And as stated multiple times, I'm willing to give this Splash refurb a chance and see what happens when it opens. And i'm going to be monitoring WDW's progress over the next year or two to see whether WDW's new president and the potential new management team Lee has mentioned will continue the maintenance fix ups.
In terms of maintenance, WDW in recent years has easily been as bad or worse than Disneyland was during the Pressler/Harris days. While other parks have improved around the world since Eisner left the company (even Disneyland Paris in the recent past was given a massive cleanup in time for its anniversary), WDW has stayed the same and its problems have escalated. There's a discrepancy among the way WDW and DL are now run. Largely because WDW management hasn't been policed by Burbank and were allowed to run around with their budget cutting policies unchecked. Only very recently have we seen any indication that the parents are starting to watch the kids more closely on the WDW side of things. Hopefully this continues as WDW receives new leadership and the refurbishment of the parks escalates.
The biggest difference between DL and WDW management woes is the unfortunate deaths that ended up occurring at DL due to poor maintenance. However, especially in regards to the Columbia incident, it has largely been luck that has prevented a similar tragedy at WDW thus far. At WDW in the past year or so there have been at least two instances of concrete that broke off and fell in guest-frequented areas on Tree of Life and Splash Mountain due to improper maintenance (not to mention the light that fell on the track at Everest). Tree of Life's rock thankfully fell after hours when the park was closed, but could just as easily have broken off during park hours. Splash Mountain's fell in the loading area while the ride was open and operating with guests in the area, it apparently fell in the canal (the ride was closed for the day afterwards). It could have easily have hit someone and injured or possibly killed them had it not fallen in that brief instance when a log wasn't under that position. The dangerous situations at DL and WDW both had fatal potential, it was simply chance that has prevented such a situation at WDW.
I brought those dark days at DL up as an example of how DL fans are NOT mellow people by any stretch like you suggested they are. When given something to complain about, they do it very loudly. And prior to its refurb, Indiana Jones has been a target of their criticism in recent years. Hell, it was a Disneyland fan on Micechat that took the recent pictures of Maelstrom's deplorable condition while on a vacation to WDW. If anything they're much more organized and outspoken about their indignation and anger than WDW fans when their park is threatened by cheapness (rightfully so). When incompetent maintenance actually threatens the safety of guests, it's completely understandable for people to become angry.
I've levied criticism about the management team of the past several years. It's relatively well known who to blame in those instances. I'm not going to criticize the future management team unless they continue down this same path. And as stated multiple times, I'm willing to give this Splash refurb a chance and see what happens when it opens. And i'm going to be monitoring WDW's progress over the next year or two to see whether WDW's new president and the potential new management team Lee has mentioned will continue the maintenance fix ups.
openendedsky
Well-Known Member
These two baffle me especially, since the park is still kind of a baby. I don't know the details with the Yeti on Everest, considering I haven't been to the park since the year of its opening, but it is kind of a head scratcher for me.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I believe the light that fell on Everest was supposedly placed beside the tracks in a position after you exit the cave but right before the train re-enters the load/unload station. Someone can correct me if i'm wrong. I believe it was a work light though, not a permanent fixture, and it was left there and apparently not entirely secure. So less to do with ride upkeep and more to do with maintenance just leaving tools out and unsecured. I may not have the entire story (or the correct one), but I heard the light fell across the tracks and a train ran into it. I don't know whether it hurt anyone though or any other specifics. Again, insiders can correct me if I'm mistaken on anything (which I may be, I only vaguely remember the conversation about it).
As for the Tree of Life, well parks and attractions still need decent upkeep even after only 15 years or so.
openendedsky
Well-Known Member
This is true, and like everybody's been saying, it is Florida and I'm sure the weather can accelerate decay. And that does make more sense, thanks for clarifying.
Come back three months after the ride reopens and hopefully you can act like this then.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
That's step 1.
Step 2 is...
Come back in 9 months and make sure no effects that were "fixed" are now broken again and turned off.
dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
This is where we need George to make a difference.
Alektronic
Well-Known Member
After the BTRR accident at DLR, everything changed with the current maintenance system. Legal and Safety are involved in everything. When accidents occured at DLR, there were major changes. When the accidents happen at WDW, especially 2 CM deaths on the same ride, Primeval Whirl, nothing much changed at all.
Rob562
Well-Known Member
If I recall correctly, one was a Maintenance CM that fell while the ride was closed for refurb.
The other one was a CM working on the platform who walked off the edge of the platform at Load and hit their head as they fell the 5 or 6 feet to the ground.
-Rob
flynnibus
Premium Member
knocked off.. she was in the exclusion zone and got knocked off.. hit her head and sustained fatal injuries. The other was a CM who was working on the track area and fell.
@Alektronic - unfortunately.. the big difference is CMs vs guests in the deaths :/
I mean when we add in the actor who fell off a simple stage and dies.. and then add the kid running into the bus.. it was a nasty nasty period. But how much can you attest to 'way of working' - which is what make the DLR changes so necessary.
Brian Noble
Well-Known Member
There is also a significant difference in how CA and FL state agencies oversee theme parks.
flynnibus
Premium Member
... largely in part due to the DLR accidents. CalOSHA got involved in regulating fixed amusements and is far more hands on.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Aye, I definitely know that the deaths apparently caused a shift in the way DL was managed, at least in part (not sure if there was anything else at work there). Though it seems to be related largely to who it is that gets killed (guest or cast), as well as the cause. The deaths at WDW I gather haven't been linked to maintenance neglect like they were at Disneyland. One person was killed on Columbia at DL due to a rope or something snapping off and hitting them due to being attached to rotting wood. Another death at DL I gather was when Big Thunder derailed due to again failure to properly inspect something during maintenance.
The accidents at WDW weren't attributed to improper maintenance. And besides the bus incidents (which I don't know whether it was anyone's fault for those), it was all cast member deaths. As I said, there have been some real close shaves involving guests and falling scenery that could have easily lead to deaths if not for sheer luck preventing it. But nothing has actually happened yet to cause any lawsuits from guests or whatnot.
If some sort of incident like the ones at Disneyland DID occur at WDW, I wonder if the results would end up happening as well. It's sad that it escalated to death before any sort of change actually occurred at DL. I don't want the same tragedy to happen at WDW.
The accidents at WDW weren't attributed to improper maintenance. And besides the bus incidents (which I don't know whether it was anyone's fault for those), it was all cast member deaths. As I said, there have been some real close shaves involving guests and falling scenery that could have easily lead to deaths if not for sheer luck preventing it. But nothing has actually happened yet to cause any lawsuits from guests or whatnot.
If some sort of incident like the ones at Disneyland DID occur at WDW, I wonder if the results would end up happening as well. It's sad that it escalated to death before any sort of change actually occurred at DL. I don't want the same tragedy to happen at WDW.