Splash Mountain falling apart (literally?)

[Captain Chaos]

We were so close to going in on DVC and I can see where it is an easy thing to throw your hat in the ring on especially while they have you in their grasp. I am glad we took the time to come home and get introspective about it to realize we had genuine concerns about the "ROI" of our vacation dollar.

Maybe someday the management team will wise up....or not.

Maybe... Honestly, I can tell you I like how Claire Bilby is approaching her new position... I wish the other members of TDO would do the same... But you did the smart thing... I went on two DVC tours and spent hours upon hours crunching numbers to see if it was right for me... It was, so I jumped in... No, I do not regret it even though there has been a decline... I don't regret it cause I really love the WDW resorts and the rooms we get with the DVC... Sure, I could stay offsite for 60 bucks a night, but you get a hotel room I can get here in NJ... LOL... And as far as WDW's decline, well, WDW isn't the only thing in Orlando to do.. I know that is hard for some WDW fans to hear and accept... But it is true... So, to me, my investment was worth it...

You'll buy into it when you feel you are good and ready or when it truly appeals to you...

 

[RSoxNo1]

Haunted Mansion was/is pretty glitchy too, even after the refurbishment. Something else that comes to mind is the old fort on Tom Sawyer's Island. Whatever happened to that? It's been a long time since I went over to the island; but I remember no one ever knowing what was going on. That's just the tip of the iceberg too.

The Burning Cabin?

 

[WDW1974]

The place is still very special to me and now my kids.

It is still very special to me ... and many others' children!

Although these issues exist I still love it so I have no intention of stopping going.

Me too. Although the trips are getting fewer and further apart. There are great theme parks ... even Disney ones ... elsewhere and plenty of non-theme park destinations that would take many lifetimes to see.

Ultimately, if a lot of true fans took your approach and stopped going it may make some kind of impact, but who really knows.

Nah, it would make no impact at all. Disney laughs when they hear about people staying away. They'd very much like to give up fans like myself who recall what the place was like in 1974 and 1984 and 1994 and know with every fiber of our cranky old beings that today's product barely resembles what it once did. No matter what Blondie and Lou and WannabeLou etc think.

I know that just makes me one of the people who complains about the problems and then still gives Disney my money anyway. Guilty as charged. My kids will never be 6 and 3 again like they will be on my next trip so it would be hard for me to say I'll wait 5 years until the quality comes back.

Nor should you. It would prevent the kids from having a great time and you as well. And the five year figure could be very optimistic!

I don't really sweat a lot of the little stuff that is wrong like some people, but this issue with Splash is way beyond fanboi obsession over napkins or fake falling rocks, these are actual "fake rocks" falling on people.

I am sure they were all paid off handsomely for their troubles. There's a reason that even a very weak beat reporter like Jason Garcia hasn't written about it ... or even our pal Kevin Yee (hell, if I were him, I might think a theme of attractions shedding chunks might be Exhibit A of what I should write about!)

 

[WDW1974]

This thread is making me consider taking a trip to Disneyland next year rather than WDW.

Don't consider it.

Do it!

 

[Scuttle]

The Burning Cabin?

Miss that burning cabin!

Does anyone remember the dead soldier that PC got the best of?

 

[WDW1974]

I agree that there is zero chance that all issues are resolved. My guess is they will take care of the falling pieces and major safety issues and hit AAs and show elements as time and budget allows. We have insiders around here that seem to have some non-public info, anyone know what the plans are for the refurb?

Know? No.

Guess (based on history and experience)? As little as possible.

 

[WDW1974]

The bolded above is one I'm happy about. I never could stand the russian roulette feeling of if I was going to be absolutely soaked before that second lift hill. In fact, my wife stopped riding the ride all together because of it. For years, I've had to take the kids myself and hope we wouldn't have to spend the next 3 hours dripping wet.

Rumor is that was purposely turned off for just that reason.

If you ask me, they should turn it on, just change the pressure so it shoots just short of the flume. That would keep the desired effect of "ARE WE GONNA GET SOAKED??!?!?!?" without the uncomfortable 3 hours afterward.

I HATE rides that get me soaked (and ruin clothing, shoes, wallets, phones etc) in theme parks and feel they are LCD crap to please the Honey Boo Boo/Walmart demo that is so prevalent in theme parks today (where they get the $$$ is another matter). But I won't ride a great raft ride like IOA's because I have no desire to get wetter with my clothes on than I do in a shower with them off.

Splash Mountain is just bearable enough that I will ride every once in a while at MK and all the time at DL due to its great single rider 'you never wait even when it's 108' line ... very rarely due I get soaked but when I do I am nota happy camper. These rides don't have to get you even remotely wet. TDL's Splash Mountain, which looked like it had just opened on my visit in 12/10, barely mists you in the face because the Japanese (as a culture) realize there is nothing fun about walking around a theme park in soaked clothing. Americans can be soo ... sooo ... nah, not going there. Point is you can have a great flume ride that doesn't soak guests and if Splash were toned down a bit, I very much doubt there'd be many complainers at City Hall demanding refunds on their $8,000 MAGICal vacations because of it.

Yep, that be one of the Spirit's hot button topics.

 

[WDW1974]

I just really don't understand this attitude. Sorry. Why go on water rides at all if you are so worried about getting wet? It's not that hard to bring a change of clothes if someone is that concerned about it. Wear light weight easily arrerated things onto the ride, have a change of underwear and socks at least and you are fine. I would be so disappointed if they changed aspects of the ride so that it's a water rode with no risk of wetness...what's the point then? Its like saying they should have just built a slow moving coaster thru the mountain if that's the attitude people are going to have..would have saved money and then no risk of wetness (oh the horror!) at all. And the chances of getting truly soaked on Splash are pretty minimal. Heck, even on Kali River Rapids, there isn't all that much of a chance (I've ridden it more times than I can count and I've only gotten soaked thru once unlike at Universal where it's just about every time...which indicates some well designed water rides)

Sorry, bubbles (appropriate name for topic!), but I don't believe I should have to carry around extra undies and socks, let alone a whole new outfit to ride a log flume. Getting soaked to the bone is what water parks are for. And even if you don't ride, when others ride and get soaked, you often wind up sitting where someone's wet was before (be it another ride or a dining venue or a bench) ... YECH!!!!

 

[WDW1974]

I road Splash Mountain on Tuesday (November 20). There was something not working in almost every scene. It was rather shocking to think I was at WDW while seeing a ride in this bad of condition. For the first time in my life, I felt like I was at Six Flags while at the Magic Kingdom. I was happy to get off and move on to other attractions whose effects were working.

Did you complain at City Hall?

Should have. Raise a stink (like what you smell like after riding since they don't disinfect the logs nightly). You wouldn't get satisfaction, but if you fit a certain profile -- and I think you do with kids and family -- you might get a free dinner at Crystal Palace and maybe even a $100 gift card too!

Yes, I am serious.

 

[WDW1974]

Unfortunately, everything @Alektronic says is all too accurate.

I'll chime in here on Splash's rockwork. You have to realize the attraction is 20 years old now, 21 if you count construction. Attractions are generally designed & planned to a 20 year lifespan, IF regular preventative (annual) maintenance is performed. Disney's history had a stellar maintenance program, but that's slipped over the past 10-15 years. The underpinnings of the mountain should be inspected and repaired annually and more in-depth every 3-5 years on a wet attraction. And the rockwork should be resealed on a regular basis. That can't happen with the way things are maintained nowadays, without a committed plan to do this type of maintenance during the monthly downtime, which also means the animatronics and show quality must be maintained separately during the year as it breaks. It's not physically possible to do all the work that needs to be done in a month downtime if you spend all of your resources (budget and manpower) on show scenes, without thinking about the stuff that's taken for granted, meaning the rock and fake woodwork that has simply been patched and painted over the years. Not to mention the hours avail to work on the attraction have shrunk over the years. It's honestly not surprising the rockwork is degrading and gravity is taking its course. It shouldn't be this way, but it's right on time to have things start to need some TLC, esp with the way things have been taken care of.

READ THIS FOLKS!!! TAKE IT IN!!!

Like a leftover drumstick.

And then realize there are 18 pages on this thread and 50 or 60 some odd on Starbucks being a deathknell to the Disney MAGIC.

Sometimes I ask why bother ... and the voice in my head says ''because you must, without fanboi tears and Pixie Dust, you'll die.''

 

[WDW1974]

I sent a letter to Claire Bilby and CC'd Tom and Meg. We will see what sort of response it gets. I really just did it to throw my hat in the ring for everyone who is increasingly frustrated with deteriorating standards. If I hear anything I will pass it along. Thanks WDW1974 for your help.

Sorry, I wasn't more help. I haven't had much MAGICal time beyond some reading the past few weeks ... but anything is worth a shot.

 

[WDW1974]

So, no real surprise but I got a phone call from a "representative" of the executive team who basically stated they were discussing the matter but that they understand that the DVC is not for everybody. Wished me a magical day and told me they would like to welcome me home sometime soon...that was pretty much it. Below is the actual letter that I sent to them:

Disney Vacation Development, Inc.
200 Celebration Place
Celebration, Florida, 34747-9903


Dear Claire Bilby,

Our family has had the wonderful fortune of being able to vacation nine times at the Walt Disney World Resort (four of which have been since 2003). We have enjoyed the parks on many levels and it is a wonderful vacation that we really enjoy.

Back in November of 2006 we sat at a DVC desk in the Wilderness Lodge during our stay there and discussed the benefits of DVC ownership. At that time we were given information but not offered a look at any villas or areas on property for DVC members. On our next trip in 2008 we enjoyed the parks a great deal but ignored the DVC membership desks entirely and upon returning home we agreed that perhaps we should consider membership once again, we decided to look very carefully at the parks in future visits as prospective owners and not just touristy vacationers. Over our next two trips (one in 2010 and one this year in 2012) we made quite a few observations and discussed our thoughts with one another when we returned home once again.

In all honesty after looking over the parks and the contracts of the DVC ownership I have to say that we have noted a decline in overall value for the dollar in our vacation as a rack rate type guest and after looking over contracts from other DVC members I see no responsibility of the DVC that guarantees condition or upkeep of the parks or properties. In essence the only thing I can see that the DVC is required to do is to supply lodgings with a perceived sense of ownership. I have to say that we are not at all comfortable making a 30-40 year commitment to a company that does not give any guarantee of ROI for our investment dollar either in the form of written contract or by examples we noted in the parks over the past four years.

As a business owner myself I wanted to take time to write you with my concerns as someone who started my own love of Disney with my first vacation to the world at the age of six in August 1977 and as someone who is seeing the resources squandered and left to decay in the form of empty pavilions, rides with all too frequent break downs and attractions not updated due to lack of corporate sponsorship for far too many years.

We have two more vacations planned over the next two years and in fact booked a bounceback for Sept 2013 in hopes that we see improvements that can help rekindle that wonderful feeling of magic in our hearts.

Thank you for your time and kind consideration in these matters.

Very hopefully yours,

Mr & Mrs XXXXXXX

Oops, should have seen/read this first. ... My take is the way it was worded made them think two things: 1.) you weren't going to buy DVC no matter what; 2.) you've already committed to returning so they've got ya and your $$$ anyway.

 

[WDW1974]

x

WDW means too much to too many people to let things degrade to a point where people are seriously saying that Universal and Sea World are making up ground. Forget. That. Noise. It's supposed to be no competiton: Disney World in its own class and then everyone else. I'm glad that I finally decided on pursuing a degree in Business/Hospitality Management when I get into school. Someone needs to kick butts and take names lol.

It is no competition. When it comes to investing in their parks in FL, both UNI and SW outclass Disney by multiples ... and they also tend to be beating Disney on many of the basics from fresh entertainment to higher quality food offerings etc.

When you say Disney is supposed to have no competition, you're spouting a PR talking point from the 60s-90s that they won't even dare use anymore.

 

[WDW1974]

Does DL's have any of the problems WDW's Splash Mountain has?

When I rode it in September I noticed maybe 2-3 show issues ... only glaring one was a fountain that should have had an AA on it in the LP scene, but I'm not sure that it hasn't been gone for years.

Thing is, resorts aren't packed and the DVC is no longer selling like hotcakes...

I could be like one my 'fans' here (funny how when I don't post, neither do certain folks who claim they don't have obsessions and/or mental illness) and say HOW DO YOU KNOW??? DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE DATA??!? WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS TO BACK YOUR CLAIMS?!??

Of course, the reality is that you are quite right on both counts.

Hey, here's one I'll just drop in a thread ... do you know Disney has plans for a DVC/hotel in the EPCOT parking lot?

How about another? How do you 'value engineer' RSRs for a FL appearance? How about painted flats instead of all that amazing rockwork?

What about what Tony Baxter really thought about the NEW, NEW, NEW, But not really Fantasyland? ... Well, nah, that one will have to stay with me unless he opts to place it out or tell someone with looser lips than my beauties.

 

[WDW1974]

Maybe... Honestly, I can tell you I like how Claire Bilby is approaching her new position... I wish the other members of TDO would do the same... But you did the smart thing... I went on two DVC tours and spent hours upon hours crunching numbers to see if it was right for me... It was, so I jumped in... No, I do not regret it even though there has been a decline... I don't regret it cause I really love the WDW resorts and the rooms we get with the DVC... Sure, I could stay offsite for 60 bucks a night, but you get a hotel room I can get here in NJ... LOL... And as far as WDW's decline, well, WDW isn't the only thing in Orlando to do.. I know that is hard for some WDW fans to hear and accept... But it is true... So, to me, my investment was worth it...

You'll buy into it when you feel you are good and ready or when it truly appeals to you...

I won't argue the value of DVC. I see very little value in buying it from Disney. I see considerable value in some of the amazing resale opps and in having good friends who invite you to stay with them for 11 days in a one bedroom at one of your favorite resorts for free.

But Disney is VERY concerned that many DVCers are coming and not giving Disney their money and instead dining off property and visiting UNI/IOA/SW/DC/AQuatica/BGT etc hence the unheard of $399 PAPs they are begging DVCers to take. This on the heels of many other perks they're throwing in ... Pssst ... hey DVCers, I wouldn't pay for D23 membership if yours is up soon or if were thinking of joining because y'all are going to automatically be members for free in the near future.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I won't argue the value of DVC. I see very little value in buying it from Disney. I see considerable value in some of the amazing resale opps and in having good friends who invite you to stay with them for 11 days in a one bedroom at one of your favorite resorts for free.

But Disney is VERY concerned that many DVCers are coming and not giving Disney their money and instead dining off property and visiting UNI/IOA/SW/DC/AQuatica/BGT etc hence the unheard of $399 PAPs they are begging DVCers to take. This on the heels of many other perks they're throwing in ... Pssst ... hey DVCers, I wouldn't pay for D23 membership if yours is up soon or if were thinking of joining because y'all are going to automatically be members for free in the near future.

This is me... I'll stay in my DVC booked villa and travel offsite to dine, visit Universal for 3 days, SeaWorld for 1 while only visiting Disney parks 4 days (1 day each)... So I fall into the above category... and next year, well, Disney gets 3 days of my time only.. Universal, 4...

As for D23, well, I joined the first year and haven't been back since...

 

[Captain Chaos]

Hey, here's one I'll just drop in a thread ... do you know Disney has plans for a DVC/hotel in the EPCOT parking lot?

How about another? How do you 'value engineer' RSRs for a FL appearance? How about painted flats instead of all that amazing rockwork?

What about what Tony Baxter really thought about the NEW, NEW, NEW, But not really Fantasyland? ... Well, nah, that one will have to stay with me unless he opts to place it out or tell someone with looser lips than my beauties.

I'd love to know what Tony Baxter said... Probably something priceless..

The Epcot DVC: no, just no... this coming from a DVC owner... Enough is enough...

 

[WDW1974]

I'd love to know what Tony Baxter said... Probably something priceless..

The Epcot DVC: no, just no... this coming from a DVC owner... Enough is enough...

I'd like to have been there when he said it and asked some more leading questions ... I do love that he could barely stand to be on the same stage at Eric Jacobson. You gotta love those WDI politics (you know the ones that Eddie Sotto won't talk about on his thread).

I have no idea whether it will happen. Just that plans exist and Disney feels it would be easier than the World Showcase units that have been considered. But DVC will never stop until there's a complete depression.

This is me... I'll stay in my DVC booked villa and travel offsite to dine, visit Universal for 3 days, SeaWorld for 1 while only visiting Disney parks 4 days (1 day each)... So I fall into the above category... and next year, well, Disney gets 3 days of my time only.. Universal, 4...

As for D23, well, I joined the first year and haven't been back since...

You are still doing some Disney. I am hearing of people coming to say SS for 10 nights and not setting foot in a Disney theme park. ... Just don't ask Joan 'from Meg's office' about this, she'll be like the Prez of Iran talking about the ... nah, that's a joke you think about at 3 a.m. and the decide it's been a long day and you need to work in nine hours and you don't follow through.

 

[Captain Chaos]

You are still doing some Disney. I am hearing of people coming to say SS for 10 nights and not setting foot in a Disney theme park. ... Just don't ask Joan 'from Meg's office' about this, she'll be like the Prez of Iran talking about the ... nah, that's a joke you think about at 3 a.m. and the decide it's been a long day and you need to work in nine hours and you don't follow through.

Of course I'm going to do some Disney, I hate the place that much that I am willing to spend some time there... Believe me, when I first planned a trip for next year, Disney was NOT on my list of things to do... I was going to stay at the DVC and venture off property.... You know, the area Disneyphiles hate to venture into because they would be committing some sort of sin against their savior, a dead guy name Jesus, I mean Walt... And honestly, if it weren't for some friends who like to share their perks, well, I wouldn't have even considered it... And plans can still change... I may do some cutting of my own, like my idols, TDO...

 

[Longhairbear]

I won't argue the value of DVC. I see very little value in buying it from Disney. I see considerable value in some of the amazing resale opps and in having good friends who invite you to stay with them for 11 days in a one bedroom at one of your favorite resorts for free.

But Disney is VERY concerned that many DVCers are coming and not giving Disney their money and instead dining off property and visiting UNI/IOA/SW/DC/AQuatica/BGT etc hence the unheard of $399 PAPs they are begging DVCers to take. This on the heels of many other perks they're throwing in ... Pssst ... hey DVCers, I wouldn't pay for D23 membership if yours is up soon or if were thinking of joining because y'all are going to automatically be members for free in the near future.

As a DVC member, you are saying exactly what I've been thinking about trying to entice us back to WDW. Now about that EPCOT DVC.... they need another at DLR, not WDW.