Spirited WDW Observations, News and Provocative Comments

[Oddysey]

Ah ... showing the online bulge again, JT!:ROFLOL::xmas:

First, if you want to discredit me you should at least attempt to stick to the facts. I was there for 10 days beginning 12/7. The page you link to largely is talking about crowds this past Saturday, which was 12/19 ... and a 9-1 operating day AND the first day you could see the Christmas entertainment without paying an extra $59 for the chance.

I'm sure it was crowded. It was crowded Saturday 12/12 as well. I stated as much.

But it was downright EMPTY earlier in the week with a few exceptions.

Some folks don't also understand how things like FP, reduced capacity, double-wide strollers and ECVs etc all make a park FEEL busier than it actually is.

I actually got in a heated (animated a better term?) with a CM Ops pal of an online 'celeb' when he tried to tell me that what I was seeing with my own eyes wasn't reality. I just said he needed to rub the pixie dust out of his eyes and look at what was there, not what he (or the company) wanted to see. It was fun!:drevil:

Anyway, it was nice to see old 'offseason' type crowd levels (and ones that wouldn't be harming the company IF it didn't build 30,000 hotel rooms and timeshares).

I expect things will be getting progressively more crowded from here on out until around 1/2 when they'll start to drop bigtime. I eagerly await the breathless phased closing threads and am very glad I won't be anywhere near the place.:xmas::wave::xmas:

I have to support this. I have been at the parks for the holidays the past 6 years and my wife and I were pleasently suprised at how slow it was during the week. I dont remember the holidays ever being this slow. However, on 12/19 MK was a madhouse. We spent about 30 min in the park before leaving for Epcot which was considerably less congested.

 

[jt04]

Disney has NEVER dicounted like it has in 2009. Never. Ever.

Book four nights, get three free. Eat free. Merchandise gift cards.

40% off deluxe resorts during the busiest two weeks of the year.

Giving APers 10% off all merchandise ... nope let's make it 20% during the holiday period.

Sale-priced merchandise all over.

Instead of having lower numbers, but keeping the premium brand label, Disney has reverted to cosntant discounting and that has Wall Street (rightfully) worried. But it makes the short term numbers look a lot better than they would or should.

But at the cost of devaluing the brand. People become addicted to discounting (look at the pheonomenon of Black Friday, Walmart or even the airline industry domestically).

The Weatherman can lie all he wants about scaling back discounts in 2010, but the reality (and he well knows it especially with NOTHING happening at WDW) is they'll be inforce all through the new year.



Ah, so you want to bring in politics and taxes? I say RAISE them taxes as high as you want ... so long as the money goes to health care ... to education ... to job creation ... and to infrastructure ... and NOT to the wealthy ... to Wall Street ... to Big Business ... or to Iraq. Taxes haven't exactly been low this decade ... yet my money has gone to almost nothing I support and many things I don't. :xmas::xmas:

I never said that they current discounts have been seen on the level they are now. I said they are due to the slipping economy (everyone knows that) just as you have said also. The economy has not been this bad since before Epcot opened.

And they are going to keep raising taxes as you say you want and mandates on the middle class. And that will worsen the economic slide which will lead to further cuts and layoffs and more Walmarting. By the way, get used to that last sentence in your post, because it's just the beginning of redistribution. Ironic that the mandatory insurance policies people your age will be legally bound to purchase will help pay for my health care and your Social Security payments will go to one of my three pensions. Don't think I'm not appreciative. :lol:

Baby boomers win again. :xmas: Suckers. :sohappy::lol::wave:


OK, lighten up, it's just a joke. :lol::lookaroun

 

[Biff215]

Yeah. When I was there it was a mix of 7 and 8 closings depending on the night. They're now at 8 closings the rest of the week until going to 9 on Christmas (with 9-midnight EMH that night, wonder how the day guests feel?)

I never saw signs saying the lights would go out at a certain time. I was there on two nights and one night left about 7:50 and another at 8:20 with the lights still on and performing.

I've since been told the lights stay on one hour after close, but if that is indeed the case (and I believe it is) Disney does nothing to publicize the fact at all.



That's my take. I had a great time. And especially enjoyed some of the resorts, the Osborne Lights, Sea World's new holiday offerings and an empty, cool MK.

But please let's not have folks making excuses for management cutting quality. We're about to embark on a new decade after one that has really sucked and has been keyed by a defending da man mantra ... let's stop.

:xmas::xmas::xmas:
:xmas::xmas:
:xmas:

We apparently were there part of the same timeframe you were (12/8-13 for us). We went to DHS on the 9th and those signs were indeed out. I saw at least two, one by the info board at the front and one on SoA. I wish I would have taken a picture of them. It just surprised me as the parks have always pushed past their posted operating hours as the queues clear and everyone finishes shopping (which benefits Disney).

We attended MVMCP on the 11th. We have a 16 month old so I'm certainly not the one to determine whether or not it is a fair deal. But in the few short hours we were there, we managed to see the castle show, parade, fireworks, and grabbed some cookies and cocoa. It was all we could expect from our daughter and we wouldn't have seen those things otherwise.

There was actually a CM walking the parade route before the castle show in the hub. She was asking to see wristbands and actually asked the family next to us leave when they didn't have theirs (and subsequently acted like they didn't know English :animwink. While I wouldn't want someone else getting for free what I paid over $100 for, I also wouldn't want that poor girl's job!

Definitely can back you up on the crowds. Dead the whole week until 12/11 at the MK. Add to that the monorail issues that night and it made for quite an uncomfortable situation. Good thing we had already done what we wanted and were just there one last night for the atmosphere!

 

[Buried20KLeague]

http://blog.touringplans.com/2009/12/21/crowds-larger-than-expected-this-pre-christmas/


Who to believe? :shrug:

Was there from the 9th to the 19th. There was ONE crowded day, and it was that Saturday. The same day a thread was started on the topic.

Saturday the 19th the crowds got VERY big, very quick. But the day before, on Friday the 18th, almost everything was a walk on. So if touringplans is saying that the crowds usually don't hit till the 24th, but are larger earlier (meaning the 19th), I'd agree.

Otherwise... Crowds were good. It was great.

 

[jt04]

Was there from the 9th to the 19th. There was ONE crowded day, and it was that Saturday. The same day a thread was started on the topic.

Saturday the 19th the crowds got VERY big, very quick. But the day before, on Friday the 18th, almost everything was a walk on. So if touringplans is saying that the crowds usually don't hit till the 24th, but are larger earlier (meaning the 19th), I'd agree.

Otherwise... Crowds were good. It was great.

Thanks for the clarification. It will be incredibly interesting to see where the trend lines go next year.

 

[WDW1974]

Since WDW1974 already sang your praises, I won't compliment this, because we can't handle your head getting any bigger than it is.

Yeah, I think they may have a float of Saks in the Macy's Parade at UNI!:xmas:

But it is hilarious...

That it is ... dare I say I was almost ROFLMAO over that! :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

I think it's worth the extra $$$ to stay in walking distance of Epcot.

The pixie dust works when you're that close to World Showcase. :lol:

I don't. Not anymore. Not when I can stay at a true 4-star hotel for less (by a good margin) than what most here pay for a Disney 'value' motel.

Now ... if a certain CM pal had been able to snag a $100 room at the WL last week (like he was for family this week) then I would have jumped.

But when the best deal offered is an AP rate of $149 for the first night and $89 for the last three at CBR (not a fave) when I needed nine nights ... well, it wasn't even close. :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

We apparently were there part of the same timeframe you were (12/8-13 for us). We went to DHS on the 9th and those signs were indeed out. I saw at least two, one by the info board at the front and one on SoA. I wish I would have taken a picture of them. It just surprised me as the parks have always pushed past their posted operating hours as the queues clear and everyone finishes shopping (which benefits Disney).

Ah, I know why they were out on the 9th. Disney had a very special private party and they were doing a hard close.

We attended MVMCP on the 11th. We have a 16 month old so I'm certainly not the one to determine whether or not it is a fair deal. But in the few short hours we were there, we managed to see the castle show, parade, fireworks, and grabbed some cookies and cocoa. It was all we could expect from our daughter and we wouldn't have seen those things otherwise.

All I can say is that in the past, it all was free for day guests except for the cheap cookies (I get better at Target ... just had one as a matter of fact) and cocoa.

I do get and appreciate that some folks find the parties to be a value. But overall, they simply are a way for Mickey to improve the bottom line.

Oh, and they're looking at a Valentine's Party at EITHER MK or Studios now as well.

There was actually a CM walking the parade route before the castle show in the hub. She was asking to see wristbands and actually asked the family next to us leave when they didn't have theirs (and subsequently acted like they didn't know English :animwink. While I wouldn't want someone else getting for free what I paid over $100 for, I also wouldn't want that poor girl's job!

Exactly. It puts CMs in a bad situation. What is less magical than kicking guests out of the MK. In the past, that never would have been an issue because they'd clear the entire park. It still is the best way to go as doing things this way flies in the face of how Disney has always operated.

Definitely can back you up on the crowds. Dead the whole week until 12/11 at the MK. Add to that the monorail issues that night and it made for quite an uncomfortable situation. Good thing we had already done what we wanted and were just there one last night for the atmosphere!

We were there late on the 12th, but for some reason (nice weather) decided to boat on over to the Poly instead of taking the rails. The 11th was definitely moderately crowded to very busy depending on time of day, but only in that park.

I also was at both EPCOT and Studios that day (unusual for me to hit three in a day) and while they both were heavier than earlier in the week, they weren't packed like MK was.

Also, I can tell you that MVMCP sold out on the 11th (one of the few nights it did this year) and I did see crowds pouring into the place at 4 p.m. when it wasn't at all crowded during the day. :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

Was there from the 9th to the 19th. There was ONE crowded day, and it was that Saturday. The same day a thread was started on the topic.

YOU WERE THERE??!??!? Shocking ... and I never even noticed you.:ROFLOL::xmas:

Saturday the 19th the crowds got VERY big, very quick. But the day before, on Friday the 18th, almost everything was a walk on. So if touringplans is saying that the crowds usually don't hit till the 24th, but are larger earlier (meaning the 19th), I'd agree.

Otherwise... Crowds were good. It was great.

You can tell simply by looking at park operating schedules for the next 10 days how they progressively get longer this week ... at all of the parks.

It's always like that ...

I will say there's something quaint about the fact in Anaheim DL closes at 9 and DCA at 6 on X-mas Eve. They used to do that when WDW was just two parks too ... 6 p.m. hard close so CMs could go home ... no more. Just like all the places that will be open on Christmas ...:xmas:

 

[tirian]

I don't. Not anymore. Not when I can stay at a true 4-star hotel for less (by a good margin) than what most here pay for a Disney 'value' motel.

Now ... if a certain CM pal had been able to snag a $100 room at the WL last week (like he was for family this week) then I would have jumped.

But when the best deal offered is an AP rate of $149 for the first night and $89 for the last three at CBR (not a fave) when I needed nine nights ... well, it wasn't even close. :xmas:

Disney resorts are extremely overpriced—no doubt about that. The fact that people wait for Disney to offer discounts should be a red flag that the product is too expensive for its demographic—not that the pencil folks care.

However, CM discounts make those Epcot deluxe resorts very attractive places to be. :lol:

Too bad the current rumor is that hotel occupancy is almost completely reliant on discounts right now. But anyone who lives in the real world should have figured that much in the current economy.

 

[donaldfan]

Sorry, I make no promises.

When talking about discounting or how WDW is run as a publically traded company and how many of those management decisions aren't in the best interests of fans, guests, and employees, it's hard to not touch on them.

It's akin to folks who think you can talk about the HoP without it being political (BTW, thankfully, I didn't have any of the crazies that either hoot or jeer for every Prez starting with Reagan as I did in my summer visit!)

Believe me, I'm quite 'toned down' when I post!:xmas:

I didn't find you were the first with a political slant on your own thread, I didn't see the other comments leadning the other way commented on -- maybe I missed them??? :shrug: I'll stop there . . . but I agree with your statements. I guess I'm stopping now . . .

Anyway, I've thoroughly enjoyed your trip report. We were there Dec 4 - 7 and you completely echo my thoughts. We've gone down four times in the last seven years for a holiday trip -- this year was the last. I wish I could say otherwise, but I don't really see a reason to go anymore? I love all the resort decorations, but I can see stuff like that at home. Gaylord in DC is right down the road. DeVine voices, really?? I went for things like LoW, CBJ Christmas Special, etc. Beside Cindy's Castle and Osbourne (which I don't personally care for) everything costs extra $$$ now. Just can't justify it . . .

 

[donaldfan]

I think it's worth the extra $$$ to stay in walking distance of Epcot.

The pixie dust works when you're that close to World Showcase. :lol:

Ditto -- or a quick monorail ride from the Poly . ..

 

[Biff215]

Ah, I know why they were out on the 9th. Disney had a very special private party and they were doing a hard close.


Also, I can tell you that MVMCP sold out on the 11th (one of the few nights it did this year) and I did see crowds pouring into the place at 4 p.m. when it wasn't at all crowded during the day. :xmas:

Thanks for clarifying that Studios situation. Seemed like a raw deal, but I'll give Disney a break for that one night. I still say keep the park and lights open later if you're going to go to all that trouble putting them up in the first place.

To correct my previous post, the 11th was the night I was at MVMCP, which was not the night of the crazy crowds. That was the 12th as you mentioned (with the monorail issues). I didn't hear that the party had sold out on the 11th but I believe it. I guess it was good that I preordered the tickets (but still lucked out and got the AP discount that was added late).

While I would never tell anyone that staying on property was necessary to having a great Disney vacation, I still recommend it to anyone who asks. Of course I've been spoiled by the deluxes lately so that's where I'm coming from. This past trip at the Poly was great. We had an AP rate for two nights and payed rack the other three (ouch) but it was well worth it. Monorail access to the MK just can't be beat with a toddler! Plus the torches, huge rooms, and great theming can't hurt!

I don't blame you one bit for staying off property and saving the cash I forked out, but I guess I'm still sniffing that pixie dust! :lol:

Thanks for the report!

 

[WDW1974]

Disney resorts are extremely overpriced—no doubt about that. The fact that people wait for Disney to offer discounts should be a red flag that the product is too expensive for its demographic—not that the pencil folks care.

Especially with so many truly high end hotels/resorts opening in O-Town, many ON/NEAR Disney property. Ritz and JW a few years back. Gaylord Palms. More recently, Waldorf Astoria and two new Hiltons. Most considerably less than WDW resorts. They can't comman such a premium except for folks blinded by pixie dust and living off either the government or trust funds.

However, CM discounts make those Epcot deluxe resorts very attractive places to be. :lol:

Only thing I could get in that area was a Beach Club waterview for part of the stay and the rate was still over $200 by a good deal. Very easy to pass up.

Too bad the current rumor is that hotel occupancy is almost completely reliant on discounts right now. But anyone who lives in the real world should have figured that much in the current economy.

Disney is totally being run in discounted mode now, no doubt about it.
And people expect that ... and that's what's most damaging to the brand. Just saw an offer that came out today with gift cards of up to $750 for stays through March. That's just crazy.:xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

I didn't find you were the first with a political slant on your own thread, I didn't see the other comments leadning the other way commented on -- maybe I missed them??? :shrug: I'll stop there . . . but I agree with your statements. I guess I'm stopping now . . .

No ... I am not a particulatly political spirit. But I do get that WDW is a business and doesn't operate in a vacuum and that's why some comments make their way into my posts. I make no apologies.

Anyway, I've thoroughly enjoyed your trip report. We were there Dec 4 - 7 and you completely echo my thoughts. We've gone down four times in the last seven years for a holiday trip -- this year was the last. I wish I could say otherwise, but I don't really see a reason to go anymore? I love all the resort decorations, but I can see stuff like that at home. Gaylord in DC is right down the road. DeVine voices, really?? I went for things like LoW, CBJ Christmas Special, etc. Beside Cindy's Castle and Osbourne (which I don't personally care for) everything costs extra $$$ now. Just can't justify it . . .

Thanks for thr kind words.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I understand it. I'd have rather been at any of the other Disney resorts ... or even Las Vegas, but ultimately I live in FLA and have my AP ... and I'm still glad I went. I had a great time. But the staleness and the nickel and diming is obvious to me because I have had so much pixie dust that I've developed an immunity!:ROFLOL:

But Disney has gone way over the tilting point in terms of what they offer in FLA -- and the good news is some folks on BOTH coasts are aware of it and trying to fight the good fight to reverse course. Bad news is they're outnumbered and it won't be an overnight improvement just like things didn't get this way overnight. :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for clarifying that Studios situation. Seemed like a raw deal, but I'll give Disney a break for that one night. I still say keep the park and lights open later if you're going to go to all that trouble putting them up in the first place.

No problem. I had forgotten all about the party and then I looked at the date and it all made sense. I wasn't there on the 9th, so it didn't affect me.

To correct my previous post, the 11th was the night I was at MVMCP, which was not the night of the crazy crowds. That was the 12th as you mentioned (with the monorail issues). I didn't hear that the party had sold out on the 11th but I believe it. I guess it was good that I preordered the tickets (but still lucked out and got the AP discount that was added late).

Gotcha. I have a feeling all those $39 tix were why the 11th sold out. I believe they wound up discounting almost every night (another first). At that price, they're a better value. I personally think the event's value is a lot closer to $25-30 myself.

While I would never tell anyone that staying on property was necessary to having a great Disney vacation, I still recommend it to anyone who asks. Of course I've been spoiled by the deluxes lately so that's where I'm coming from. This past trip at the Poly was great. We had an AP rate for two nights and payed rack the other three (ouch) but it was well worth it. Monorail access to the MK just can't be beat with a toddler! Plus the torches, huge rooms, and great theming can't hurt!

I don't blame you one bit for staying off property and saving the cash I forked out, but I guess I'm still sniffing that pixie dust! :lol:

Thanks for the report!

I love the Poly, but I've never stayed there without a CM or AP discount. And while I find it to be one of Disney's best, I still can't justify the cost. Even on your AP nights you likely paid for 4-5 nights at my hotel ... and it was on par, in many ways better, than the Poly.

I used to stay mostly on-prop, but the value just isn't there for me. Of course, having a young child makes the convenience more of an issue, no doubt. :xmas:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

FANTASTIC review, Spirit. Something nice to come back to.

Seeing that I just got back from WDW, I'm doing a lot of comparing as I read through the thread. Though I'll be putting up my own reviews, just wanted to touch on some things that I agree/disagree on.

First thing, MVMCP. I attended for the first time, and found it very enjoyable, and a good deal for someone who was traveling, or has a limited time in WDW (like me.) In that respect, I think that the cut price for "normal" admission is well worth it. Arrive in WDW in the early afternoon, get something to eat, and jump into the MK for a few hours on a cheaper price. And with new entertainment. To me, that's a very good deal. It opens up opportunities for some guests. For others, I see your point. Being forced out did not look pleasant, and I overheard many a guest explaining to their group that they were "off to EPCOT" or somewhere else. That's a downside, I agree.

...Honestly, I think it's easily countered by reducing tic. prices, but that's just my nutty idea.

Also...MK Upkeep. Friday, the 18th, was when I was there, and it was a party night. So...Less crowds. However, there were also torrential down pours. Honestly, I always find the parks to look a bit shabbier in the rain. I have to say that as you said, it looked pretty good in some areas, some in not. I'll get into greater detail in "An Explorer's Notes". (Shameless Plug )

Agreed in full on Studios operating hours. 8oclock closing with a limited pyro show? Horrid. Again, more later....but something really needs to be done.

Great stuff, Spirit...Can't wait for more

 

[nemofinder22]

Disney is totally being run in discounted mode now, no doubt about it.
And people expect that ... and that's what's most damaging to the brand. Just saw an offer that came out today with gift cards of up to $750 for stays through March. That's just crazy.:xmas:

When I first I thought this had to be made up :lol:but wow!-
http://bookwdw.reservations.disney....mo&promotionCode=fy10q3card&market=fy10q3card

Anyways always enjoy your trip reports WDW1974! I meant to comment on your DLR trip report but Im not sure where that thread ended up but sounded like you had a great time even with it being prior to HalloweenTime.

 

[WDW1974]

FANTASTIC review, Spirit. Something nice to come back to.

Seeing that I just got back from WDW, I'm doing a lot of comparing as I read through the thread. Though I'll be putting up my own reviews, just wanted to touch on some things that I agree/disagree on.

Hope you had fun ... and am anxious to hear what you experienced.

First thing, MVMCP. I attended for the first time, and found it very enjoyable, and a good deal for someone who was traveling, or has a limited time in WDW (like me.) In that respect, I think that the cut price for "normal" admission is well worth it. Arrive in WDW in the early afternoon, get something to eat, and jump into the MK for a few hours on a cheaper price. And with new entertainment. To me, that's a very good deal. It opens up opportunities for some guests. For others, I see your point. Being forced out did not look pleasant, and I overheard many a guest explaining to their group that they were "off to EPCOT" or somewhere else. That's a downside, I agree.

It can certainly be a value. That's something Kevin Yee mentioned in his column and something I addressed in responding to him (the post I pasted in this thread).

I'm just looking at it in the big picture. MK offers far less holiday entertainment than ANY of the other MK style parks world-wide and unless you arrive 12/19 or later, you have to pay an extra $59 (although many tix sold this year were $39 discounted ones).

...Honestly, I think it's easily countered by reducing tic. prices, but that's just my nutty idea.

Well, the price has just sky-rocketed over the years. It wasn't all that long ago that the Party offered far more and was half the price it is now. But that's just part of the magic of TWDC.

Also...MK Upkeep. Friday, the 18th, was when I was there, and it was a party night. So...Less crowds. However, there were also torrential down pours. Honestly, I always find the parks to look a bit shabbier in the rain. I have to say that as you said, it looked pretty good in some areas, some in not. I'll get into greater detail in "An Explorer's Notes". (Shameless Plug )

sadly, I think the rain often makes the parks look better than they normally would. on 12/10, MK looked very clean ... it was near empty and poured overnight ... and then we had 2-3 brief storms during the day.

It was my favorite time!

Agreed in full on Studios operating hours. 8oclock closing with a limited pyro show? Horrid. Again, more later....but something really needs to be done.

At least operationally, the Studios are really run very well. Most people tell me they are the best of the four parks BY FAR. operating schedules don't get made by Rilous so much as the entire TDO management/Erin.

Great stuff, Spirit...Can't wait for more

I'll do my best!:xmas::wave:

 

[WDW1974]

When I first I thought this had to be made up :lol:but wow!-
http://bookwdw.reservations.disney....mo&promotionCode=fy10q3card&market=fy10q3card

Wild, ain't it?

And the deal is actually through early June, not March as I first heard.

That tells you how many empty rooms they have. And how little folks are spending when they are there.

I'm happy. I bought some nice LED's for $3 (amazing how many lights, bulbs and trees they had for sale at Prop Control) ... and got a couple of PoC WDCC figurines for $20 each (supposedly $200 originally) ... oh, and even got a copy of the latest D23 for $4. A few pins too ...(did I admit that?)

Anyways always enjoy your trip reports WDW1974! I meant to comment on your DLR trip report but Im not sure where that thread ended up but sounded like you had a great time even with it being prior to HalloweenTime.

Thanks. If it was on the DLR Board (think it was) I'm sure it died very quickly.

I feel very fortunate to have had three days at DLP in Sept. followed by two at DLR a few days later ... and now a week and a half in O-Town at WDW and SW. Enjoyed all the trips ... but Paris and Anaheim are in a league that WDW can't (or chooses not to) compete in right now.

But I would love to see Halloweentime this year. Every year, I seem to miss it by 3-7 days either before or after!:xmas: