Spirited Spring Break News, Observations & Thoughts ...

71jason

71jason

Well-Known Member
WDWDad13 said:
ya know... while I'm sure they could do a better job cleaning, I hate to say it... but society is also at a different place now and more and more people just don't care about things...like dropping trash anywhere... and when parents do it then their kids do it and so on.
Click to expand...

But when people see trash everywhere, it feeds the cycle--"broken window theory" and all that.
 
71jason

71jason

Well-Known Member
Crafty said:
Or benches.
Click to expand...

As I said, tables at Tortuga Tavern were 75% full, even with the place closed. Pretty much every inch of sidewalk curb in Frontierland that had a bit of shade was occupied by a kid. People up on the sidewalks up against the walls as well. 90 degrees takes it out of you quickly, more so when you're not used to such high temps. And it feels like there is no shade.
 
jlsHouston

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Figments Friend said:
There once was....but most of the real drivers with the original passion for what EPCOT was are now semi-retired, fully retired, outright fired, have moved on or been forced out, or sadly passed on.

I am sure there are still a few around that have some good ideas to improve the Park, including some enthusiastic newbies, but most are likely not in a position to really flex the muscle needed to make the important changes happen.

The politics and slightly crazy atmosphere that takes place within those hallowed halls at Flower Street make it quite a challenge to overcome when it comes to trying to make some truly creative waves.
Click to expand...

I'm reading the Sixth Extinction right now and it struck me last night how @NoChesterHester is so right on about how EPCOT could really live up to it's name and vision if TDO/WDI would steer in this direction with a new attraction for EPCOT.
 
CDavid

CDavid

Well-Known Member
WDWDad13 said:
ya know... while I'm sure they could do a better job cleaning, I hate to say it... but society is also at a different place now and more and more people just don't care about things...like dropping trash anywhere... and when parents do it then their kids do it and so on.

I have witnessed while standing next to a trashcan on main street getting ready for the parade a guy comes by and throws away some trash (food from caseys on a tray) and 1 or 2 of the items dropped to the ground rather than make it in the can....right in front of him with others standing and sitting there waiting for the parade... so what does he do... of course he walks away because the parade will be starting soon and hey, someone else will pick it up right? Some of us couldn't believe it and ended up picking it up ourselves with some napkins one family had around us.

I actually always enjoy seeing CM's not in the custodian job walking around with one of those arms to pick things up with helping pick up trash. Now if we as society could do a better job at keeping things clean it would help too
Click to expand...

Uh...No. When a company fails to do its job properly and keep its facilities clean and in good repair, blaming the customer is not the proper solution.
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
WDWDad13 said:
ya know... while I'm sure they could do a better job cleaning, I hate to say it... but society is also at a different place now and more and more people just don't care about things...like dropping trash anywhere... and when parents do it then their kids do it and so on.
Click to expand...
Um, prior to the 1970s, Americans treated the environment much worse than today.

Let's not forget this "Keep America Beautiful" commercial dates from the early 1970s:



It took a combination of government intervention, corporate conscience, and individual responsibility to clean things up.

The idea that WDW, a place that used to be a model of cleanliness, apparently is exploring whether it can lower itself to Six Flags standards should disturb everyone.
 
Last edited:
CDavid

CDavid

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
Um, prior to the 1970s, Americans treated the environment much worse than today.
Let's not forget this "Keep America Beautiful" commercial dates from the early 1970s:


It took a combination of government intervention, corporate conscience, and individual responsibility to clean things up.

The fact that WDW, a place that used to be a model of cleanliness, is exploring whether it can lower itself to Six Flags standards should disturb everyone.
Click to expand...

It's amazing how people think that many problems in society today are something new.

This commercial, form 1976, was sort of famous where I grew up:
 
jlsHouston

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
WDWDad13 said:
ya know... while I'm sure they could do a better job cleaning, I hate to say it... but society is also at a different place now and more and more people just don't care about things...like dropping trash anywhere... and when parents do it then their kids do it and so on.

I have witnessed while standing next to a trashcan on main street getting ready for the parade a guy comes by and throws away some trash (food from caseys on a tray) and 1 or 2 of the items dropped to the ground rather than make it in the can....right in front of him with others standing and sitting there waiting for the parade... so what does he do... of course he walks away because the parade will be starting soon and hey, someone else will pick it up right? Some of us couldn't believe it and ended up picking it up ourselves with some napkins one family had around us.

I actually always enjoy seeing CM's not in the custodian job walking around with one of those arms to pick things up with helping pick up trash. Now if we as society could do a better job at keeping things clean it would help too
Click to expand...

This is spot on. I totally remember in the 70's the big push in our national consciousness to Keep America Beautiful and now...well if we express a concern about our environment it seems to be we are labelled tree huggers or in the Al Gore camp.
 
jlsHouston

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
Um, prior to the 1970s, Americans treated the environment much worse than today.

Let's not forget this "Keep America Beautiful" commercial dates from the early 1970s:



It took a combination of government intervention, corporate conscience, and individual responsibility to clean things up.

The fact that WDW, a place that used to be a model of cleanliness, is exploring whether it can lower itself to Six Flags standards should disturb everyone.
Click to expand...


CDavid said:
It's amazing how people think that many problems in society today are something new.

This commercial, form 1976, was sort of famous where I grew up:
Click to expand...



Ahhhh, y'all remember this too. It may be why I have never been a "litterbug" and can't stand to see trash on the ground. My kids wouldn't dare litter in front of me either and it's being drilled in the grands right now. My little wannabe hippie self in the 70's took this campaign as serious as I did NORML:angelic:
 
WDWDad13

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
CDavid said:
Uh...No. When a company fails to do its job properly and keep its facilities clean and in good repair, blaming the customer is not the proper solution.
Click to expand...
I wasn't blaming the customer just that the customer habits are getting worse along with disneys upkeep.
 
C

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
As I said, tables at Tortuga Tavern were 75% full, even with the place closed. Pretty much every inch of sidewalk curb in Frontierland that had a bit of shade was occupied by a kid. People up on the sidewalks up against the walls as well. 90 degrees takes it out of you quickly, more so when you're not used to such high temps. And it feels like there is no shade.
Click to expand...

Welcome to Meg & Phil's Magic Kingdom.

How many folks would have killed to have a bench and some shade? I can't imagine how painfully uncomfortable it was in the hub, town square, or the old part of Fantasyland.

And I've seen Tortuga's tables full too when the place is closed. Do the geniuses at TDO realize that maybe half of those folks would have bought food or drinks if the place was open?
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
For a further example, when I was working in a restaurant earlier this year, if people saw others leave their trays of food and garbage ON TOP OF the trashcan, most others did to. If there was no trash left or food on the trays on top, then others followed suit. It's amazing to watch, really. It's the mentality of "if they can do it so can I".
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
Exactly. Folks should know better, but if they see trash on the floor, especially in a place that PRIDED itself on being clean, it becomes "more accepted", even if I totally don't agree with this mentality.
Click to expand...
It's a concept commonly referred to as the Broken Windows Theory, the idea that when something is not properly maintained, it encourages petty vandalism and other bad behavior. It's the idea that people take visual cues from their surrounding environment to determine what behavior is acceptable.

Although the theory dates back to the 1980s, it's a concept Walt Disney well understood when he opened Disneyland in 1955.

Quoting Walt:

"When I started on Disneyland, my wife used to say 'But why do you want to build an amusement park? They're so dirty.' I told her that was the point, mine wouldn't be."

Quoting Walt again:

"Everybody thinks that Disneyland is a goldmine but we have had our problems. You've got to work it and know how to handle it. Even trying to keep that park clean is a tremendous expense. And those sharp-pencil guys tell you, 'Walt, if we cut down on maintenance, we'd save a lot of money.' But I don't believe in that. It's like any other show on the road; it must be kept clean and fresh."

Walt understood that if you treat the customers and their surroundings with respect, they'll treat your business with respect.

If you charge them outrageous prices and allow their surroundings to deteriorate, they're going to behave accordingly.

It's a concept completely lost by today's corporate Disney management.
 
Last edited:
jlsHouston

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
It's a concept commonly referred to as the Broken Windows Theory, the idea that when something is not properly maintained, it encourages petty vandalism and other bad behavior. It's the idea that people take visual cues from their surrounding environment to determine what behavior is acceptable.

Although the theory dates back to the 1980s, it's a concept Walt Disney well understood when he opened Disneyland in 1955.

Quoting Walt:

"When I started on Disneyland, my wife used to say 'But why do you want to build an amusement park? They're so dirty.' I told her that was the point, mine wouldn't be."

Quoting Walt again:

"Everybody thinks that Disneyland is a goldmine but we have had our problems. You've got to work it and know how to handle it. Even trying to keep that park clean is a tremendous expense. And those sharp-pencil guys tell you, 'Walt, if we cut down on maintenance, we'd save a lot of money.' But I don't believe in that. It's like any other show on the road; it must be kept clean and fresh."

Walt understood that if you treat the customers and their setting with respect, they'll treat your business with respect.

If you charge them outrageous prices and allow their surroundings to deteriorate, they're going to behave accordingly.

It's a concept completely lost by today's corporate Disney management.
Click to expand...

I just pushed the love button. We REALLY need you to get this reminder to TDO.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom