Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[WDW1974]

I always thought WDS was a park I could find some way to enjoy but when I finally visited, I left after 45 minutes without doing any rides. It was that bad. To be fair, the only ride I wanted to go on was Crushe's Coaster which was broken the entire time (I'm still bitter).

Then, you missed some great Disney attractions. Cinemagique is one of Disney's best attractions anywhere and has won numerous industry awards and honors. Anamagique isn't quite as good, but still a fun and unique black lit character show. Armageddon is one of the best effects shows in any theme park. The RnRC is better than O-town's and ToT is the weaker Anaheim ride, but has some of the best CMs anywhere.

Shame you didn't give the place a chance.

 

[WDW1974]

Wow. This is weird to hear. DCA 1.0 was pretty much hated by everyone, including me. The only things I liked were Soarin' Over California (thought it was the greatest thing ever...it's overrated now), Mulholland Madness, some kiddie rides, the big CALIFORNIA letters, the mural and the Golden Gate Bridge. Eureka was fine.

The Sun Court was terrible. Brings back terrible memories.

I think it was hated because fans/locals expected and deserved so much more. They wanted Westcot. They wanted Port Disney. They got DCA instead.

But everyone didn't hate it, especially tourists who saw it as a secondary park anyway.

I still miss the Soap Opera Bistro and the Hollywood and Dine food court too, not to mention Avalon Cove before Wolfgang Puck pulled out.

 

[WDW1974]

Thematically that area is a mess, they should rename it Hollywood Studios.

And you think turning a corner of it into Monstropolis is going to help that?

 

[WDW1974]

It can only be good that TDO execs are coming to the parks on weekends with their families, yes? Or am I reading this wrong?

Nope. It's always a good thing when execs are out and George is a smart guy with a good eye, so he does notice when things are amiss ...now fixing them is another story.

 

[Californian Elitist]

There was no issue with the Chinese Theater rights.That's Disney CM/fanboi/ Internet/urban myth.

Fanbois... Disney's worst fans.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Fanbois... Disney's worst fans.

Destroying WDI since…

 

[IHeartArt]

One of my fanboi minions reports that George K and his partner Andy were seen at the MK this weekend during Gay Days. They were not wearing red ... Or Disney name tags.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

If I had to guess, the company that holds the Hollywoodland trademark wanted what Disney saw as too much money and they, SHOCKER, didn't want to pay.

This sounds like a probable explanation.

Oh, and you're right I should have used the word "trademark" and not "copyright".

I did a quick trademark search and there is still a "Hollywoodland" HOA that has trademark on the name in certain areas. Not sure if it actually would've prevented Disney from using it or if they just wanted to steer clear. If you do some googling, the people from the HOA are pretty "special".

 

[TP2000]

No. Hollywood was its own community and briefly its own incorporated municipality before it was annexed by the City of Los Angeles. Hollywoodland was a housing development that started just over a decade after the annexation. The company that was behind the housing development put up the "Hollywood" sign as an advertisement, and it originally read "Hollywoodland." When the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce acquired the sign and renovated it, they removed "land" so that it reflected the entire community and not just one development.

Thank you.

It's always nice to be reminded the history of famous areas, especially for East Coasters who may not understand the significance of a land in DCA called "Hollywood Land". Disney gets around the copyright issue by turning the original "Hollywoodland" title into two words like "Hollywood Land" for an area inside one of their theme parks.

The original sign was installed in the 1920's purely as a marketing gimmick to sell plots of land and houses in a new suburb of Los Angeles. Nothing more. It only became famous decades later, as the young city grew quickly and became world renowned.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The original Hollywood development was Hollywood land

The Hollywoodland development didn't show up until the 20's. Hollywood itself was around before then.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

And you think turning a corner of it into Monstropolis is going to help that?

I really don't understand the logic of that, at all. Their plan to fix an area that's thematically inconsistent is to make part of it based on a totally unrelated animated movie? Yikes.

The relative beauty of Buena Vista Street just makes Hollywood Land look worse.

 

[TP2000]

I really don't understand the logic of that, at all. Their plan to fix an area that's thematically inconsistent is to make part of it based on a totally unrelated animated movie? Yikes.

The relative beauty of Buena Vista Street just makes Hollywood Land look worse.

With all due respect Mr. President, I can understand why they'd want to turn that back corner into Monstropolis.

Assuming Al Lutz has the right rumor nailed down, as he's the only one who has mentioned this so far. (How many days until D23 Expo?)

Buena Vista Street and Carthay Circle are gorgeous, obviously. And then that leads to the long Hollywood Blvd. stretch that the trolleys continue down towards the Hyperion Theater, past some good architecture that was a rare element of DCA 1.0 that won't need much adjustment in the years ahead. It plays well with adjacent Buena Vista Street and the "vintage Hollywood" vibe, especially with the addition of the Red Car Trolley system that continues to Buena Vista Street and the front of the park.

Hollywood Blvd. in Hollywood Land, 2013 - A Rare Section of Original DCA 1.0 That Doesn't Need Much Help.

But back in the corner it all falls apart. It got a modest "placemaking" update by Matt Ouimet in 2005, but it's still pretty sparse and ugly. Ostensibly themed to a contemporary 21st century "studio backlot", it is a hodgepodge of rides and stories and themes. There's already a ton of real estate and hundreds of yards of facades beautifully and authentically themed to L.A. and Hollywood of the 1920's and 30's, before one gets to that back corner and it suddenly becomes a 21st century movie backlot where nothing is really happening. You can only do Vintage Hollywood for so long before it gets tired, and Buena Vista Street leading to Carthay Circle leading to Hollywood Blvd. leading to Tower of Terror seems to be plenty for that theme.

If they want to turn this cheap and ugly and ignored back corner of the park into Monstropolis, so be it. It would be a huge improvement, and the Vintage Hollywood theme has already been lavishly presented for hundreds of yards before you get to this far corner.

The Ugly & Bland DCA 1.0 Backside Of Hollywood Blvd. - Bring On Monstropolis!

 

[JLW11Hi]

I really don't understand the logic of that, at all. Their plan to fix an area that's thematically inconsistent is to make part of it based on a totally unrelated animated movie? Yikes.

The relative beauty of Buena Vista Street just makes Hollywood Land look worse.

Agreed!

They just spent all that money specifically trying to rework the theme of the park, going so far as to completely rework the front entrance (something they've never done before), and tie it into a loose theme of vintage California. They just re-opened this a YEAR ago, and they already want to throw it off track and make Monster-land? I don't get this at all.

If anything, this is the one rare opportunity they have to go and do something completely new and not related to an existing film franchise. They just opened an entire land to Cars, one of their biggest money making properties, isn't that enough for the moment? Is this not the time to fix the Hollywood area into something consistent and unique and up-to-par with the rest of the park? A studio tour dark ride, a gangster themed thrill ride, a 30's vintage Mickey Mouse dark ride (they are really pushing that brand lately)... I mean, do they absolutely have to do Monstropolis?

 

[articos]

No, not really. Comfort is a very basic guest need. In FL that means AC that is good and cold. How it used to be until sometime about a decade ago when management decided it could shut the AC off entirely in many show buildings at night and raise the temps during the day. It has resulted in hot, sticky, clammy attractions and isn't good for keeping things like mold away, either.

And, no offense intended, but whether you've noticed or not doesn't change the fact Disney has done this. It is fact. Not opinion.

If I remember correctly, this was a decision made during the period just after 9/11 when tourism was very, very soft.

 

[articos]

I think the original article was one of the most interesting and informative I've seen in ages. On initial reading, everything stated by the Accountanteer sounded totally reasonable and superficially compelling. But on further reflection, it illustrated so much of what is wrong with how Disney operates, and how misguided it is to filter everything through accounting as the final arbiter. This is epitomized by the story of the sign, and how you noticed it at all, and that it was out of place. Value engineering ruins the immersive storytelling that is so carefully crafted.

And yet at the same time, it also illustrated how letting WDI run free leads to an over-engineered solution. Given the two extremes, the imagineering solution is greatly preferable since it is an example of the Disney difference (or at least what used to be the Disney difference), but as stated already the correct approach is better communication to find a reasonable compromise, coupled with leadership with vision and the authority to excercise that vision.

Exactly. The best of all outcomes is when both sides - finance/business and creative - come together to get things done, and both listen to/respect each other. Unfortunately, more often than not, that's something that usually only happens when there's a leader who makes it happen.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I think I have to disagree with you @TP2000 over the completeness of Hollywood Land. It still seems that it, I'm referring to Hollywood Blvd, doesn't know what time period it's in. Is it the 1930s like BVS, the hip & edgy late 90s/early '00s, or today. That in and of itself hurts the that part of the park because it's not fully confident in its identity. It's a shame too because Bob Weis and Co. had come up with ways to continue the 1930s theme to help make a larger cohesive LA of the 30s. For example, the Hyperion theater was going to lose its "Blue Sky" facade for a more period design. I believe there were also plans to redo the animation building to look like the Walt Disney Studio on Hyperion Avenue where they made the "Silly Symphonies" and Snow White. Sadly they have the solution, but we only get to see it in the coffee table book.

Also going off of @JLW11Hi 's post, why not turn that backlot space into D and E Ticket row?

 

[|Q|]

I Disagree, I don't think WDSP is beyond salvageable. I actually liked it and in my report on DLP said it had a better attraction/show mix than DHS does now. It needs better looking buildings (especially the "Backlot") and more rides, but I think more are coming and their appears to be a real recognition that the park needs to be better if they want to sell it as a day trip onto itself (which Disney admits it does).

Actually I think that the only design flaw in WDSP that's beyond salvageable it's the position of the Tower of Terror. I really don't get how they decided it was a good idea for the future developement of the park to put it in the center of the park U_U...

 

[dadddio]

Wasn't HollywoodLand the actual name of Hollywood at one point?

Not really. Hollywoodland was to be a housing development on the Hollywood side of the hills. The sign was originally built to promote the housing development. It was later embraced by Hollywood and the 'land' removed.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I don't disagree. That is a cash cow for Disney and locks people in for 50 years without Disney having to invest into the parks.

DVC is a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in WDW's face.

From a WDW guest perspective, DVC costs are divided into two parts: purchase price and annual Maintenance Fee (MF). From TWDC's perspective, they make their profits up front as part of the purchase price. MF are supposed to be charged at cost.

The purchase price ROI is huge which is why TWDC continues to build DVC. TWDC wants the money and they want it now. However, compared to regular WDW resorts, MF profits are essentially nil. As DVC grows, this means WDW will continue to devote a larger percentage of its resources to onsite guests who basically do not provide profits through room stays. This means TWDC will have to charge other onsite guests even more for their rooms in order to maintain existing margins.

The myth is that DVC members are big spenders. However, the whole reason guests buy into DVC is to save money. That's DVC's big hook; long-term DVC is a less expensive way to stay at WDW's very expensive (and very profitable) Deluxe Resorts.

DVC units have kitchens. DVC members actually cook meals in their rooms. They're not eating every meal at WDW's outrageously priced restaurants.

DVC members are repeat WDW visitors. After the initial, "wow, isn't WDW great" phase, they get bored experiencing the same attractions, just like anyone would. That means they start looking for other things to do in Orlando.

Unless Disney does something to pull DVC members back into the parks, they are going to end up with an expanding class of onsite guest who provides little to no profits on their room stays, who don't eat at WDW's restaurants, and who don't visit the parks.

DVC exemplifies the problem with corporate Disney's thinking: focus on profits for the next 1-to-3 years instead of developing a long-term plan for sustainable growth. Sacrifice long-term profits for short-term profits.

Again, DVC is a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in WDW's face.

 

[BryceM]

With all due respect Mr. President, I can understand why they'd want to turn that back corner into Monstropolis.

Assuming Al Lutz has the right rumor nailed down, as he's the only one who has mentioned this so far. (How many days until D23 Expo?)

Buena Vista Street and Carthay Circle are gorgeous, obviously. And then that leads to the long Hollywood Blvd. stretch that the trolleys continue down towards the Hyperion Theater, past some good architecture that was a rare element of DCA 1.0 that won't need much adjustment in the years ahead. It plays well with adjacent Buena Vista Street and the "vintage Hollywood" vibe, especially with the addition of the Red Car Trolley system that continues to Buena Vista Street and the front of the park.

Hollywood Blvd. in Hollywood Land, 2013 - A Rare Section of Original DCA 1.0 That Doesn't Need Much Help.

But back in the corner it all falls apart. It got a modest "placemaking" update by Matt Ouimet in 2005, but it's still pretty sparse and ugly. Ostensibly themed to a contemporary 21st century "studio backlot", it is a hodgepodge of rides and stories and themes. There's already a ton of real estate and hundreds of yards of facades beautifully and authentically themed to L.A. and Hollywood of the 1920's and 30's, before one gets to that back corner and it suddenly becomes a 21st century movie backlot where nothing is really happening. You can only do Vintage Hollywood for so long before it gets tired, and Buena Vista Street leading to Carthay Circle leading to Hollywood Blvd. leading to Tower of Terror seems to be plenty for that theme.

If they want to turn this cheap and ugly and ignored back corner of the park into Monstropolis, so be it. It would be a huge improvement, and the Vintage Hollywood theme has already been lavishly presented for hundreds of yards before you get to this far corner.

The Ugly & Bland DCA 1.0 Backside Of Hollywood Blvd. - Bring On Monstropolis!

I agree with all of this. While I haven't been to DCA, I do think Hollywood Land's "main street" looks very pretty. I always love the theme of old Hollywood, no matter how many times it's been done. But yes, the other picture reminds me of a very certain Disney park here in Florida...