Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[Bryner84]

I have had nothing but great lunches at LTT over the decades.

And it's an easy to get reservation too at a reasonable price point.

 

[bubbles1812]

I'm not sure why @bubbles1812 things I'm angry. Certainly not. I'm a learner by nature and I really want to understand.

Iger and his disciples run the show, yes?

Iger and his disciples are blamed for the vast majority of perceived problems at WDW, including Blue Ocean. (See @WDW1974's OP in Spirited thread #2.)

Spirit and his friends praise DLR, DCL, and other non-WDW Disney properties for their wonderfulness.

Iger runs the WHOLE show, not just WDW.

I've asked this before but have yet to get a good answer. If Iger and his way of thinking are responsible for the demise of WDW, why hasn't his awfulness and poisonous thinking ruined DLR, DCL, and these other entities within TWDC? What is so unique about WDW that it makes Iger an incompetent executive in so many people's eyes, when the same people look with wonderment on the rest of his domain?

Dude, you act angry. Look at your last comment on the first post of yours I replied to. You called everyone who participates in this thread bitter. And I've seen you refer to this thread in other threads as a a totally negative thread blah blah blah. Anyone who criticizes or questions the information you provide often gets an angry retort. And you give out angry retorts rather than addressing the contents of others posts. Case in point, again the talk about how we are all "bitter" and somehow pining over Beastly Kingdom. And you havent exactly addressed any of the content in my or others posts in these past pages. Instead you've entirely switched the topic to Iger for some reason.

Also, for any company... Some branches of it may be run better than others. Iger may run the whole show but then there are people who work in different areas and will affect the product. Are you telling me you think Meg Crofton is somehow as good as John Lasseter? So it stands to reason that different things like WDW, DCL, DLR, might be run differently and some not as good as others

 

[Tim_4]

Dude, you act angry. Look at your last comment on the first post of yours I replied to. You called everyone who participates in this thread bitter. And I've seen you refer to this thread in other threads as a a totally negative thread blah blah blah. Anyone who criticizes or questions the information you provide often gets an angry retort. And you give out angry retorts rather than addressing the contents of others posts. Case in point, again the talk about how we are all "bitter" and somehow pining over Beastly Kingdom. And you havent exactly addressed any of the content in my or others posts in these past pages. Instead you've entirely switched the topic to Iger for some reason.

I love getting angry retorts accusing me of angrily retorting.

If I'm perceived as negative because I criticize negativity, so be it.

 

[flynnibus]

I've asked this before but have yet to get a good answer. If Iger and his way of thinking are responsible for the demise of WDW, why hasn't his awfulness and poisonous thinking ruined DLR, DCL, and these other entities within TWDC? What is so unique about WDW that it makes Iger an incompetent executive in so many people's eyes, when the same people look with wonderment on the rest of his domain?

DCL is still in the growth phase... it's pumping out profits... so there is little need to squeeze margins to make growth appear. The growth is through expansion of the product still. Plus, I have to imagine cruising is pretty far off the comfort base of these execs to meddle... tho they have been trying hard with the adventures by Disney stuff.

DLR... there has been plenty of examples.. but there is an element of 'out of sight, out of mind'. DLR is also under the scrutiny of being local. It's a lot easier to rubber stamp things when you don't see the consequences on a regular basis. Want a recent example of the awefulness? The ticketed events... the handling of grad nights... the CM parking.. the CM parties.. etc.

Where's the wonderment elsewhere? You mean in the wildly successful studio leads?? His major impact has been on landing the acquisitions and ensuring there is a successful early product from each.

 

[bubbles1812]

I love getting angry retorts accusing me of angrily retorting.

If I'm perceived as negative because I criticize negativity, so be it.

That wasnt an angry retort... No where in there was I angry. I was citing examples, using your words. I'm more amused than anything. It was/is your choice to accuse everyone of being bitter and negative. I didnt do that. If you don't want to be perceived as angry, better wording is advised.

 

[Bolna]

I love getting angry retorts accusing me of angrily retorting.

If I'm perceived as negative because I criticize negativity, so be it.

Tim, you really do sound incredibly angry and also demeaning in many of your posts. Your perception of the majority of posters appears to be that they are all negative. However, and I pointed that out in another thread in reply to you already, most people only have very few issues that they are not happy about - and are very happy with a lot of other things. You just combine every negative comment someone makes and attribute this to all the posters. That's why your "criticism of negativity" - as you call it - falls short. You are criticising something that just plain does not exist.

 

[flynnibus]

Dude, you act angry. Look at your last comment on the first post of yours I replied to. You called everyone who participates in this thread bitter

He has Dangerfield's problem... he thinks he gets no respect. He throws out some bones about avatar, none of which is anything new, but he puts his 'its happening' stamp on them... he gets a few non-contradicting replies from a few trusted posters.. and you all are supposed to trust him now and elevate him to trusted insider.

I think he's a florida cube dweller who sees some things pass his way (at best..)

 

[Atomicmickey]

I'm not sure why @bubbles1812 things I'm angry. Certainly not. I'm a learner by nature and I really want to understand.

Iger and his disciples run the show, yes?

Iger and his disciples are blamed for the vast majority of perceived problems at WDW, including Blue Ocean. (See @WDW1974's OP in Spirited thread #2.)

Spirit and his friends praise DLR, DCL, and other non-WDW Disney properties for their wonderfulness.

Iger runs the WHOLE show, not just WDW.

I've asked this before but have yet to get a good answer. If Iger and his way of thinking are responsible for the demise of WDW, why hasn't his awfulness and poisonous thinking ruined DLR, DCL, and these other entities within TWDC? What is so unique about WDW that it makes Iger an incompetent executive in so many people's eyes, when the same people look with wonderment on the rest of his domain?

This is a good point--Disney IS capable of impeccable service and maintenance, as witnessed on
the cruise lines.

So, OK. "Iger" gets that.

And yet, maintenance and service at WDW have tumbled.

So, why? And where to lay the blame?

Why wouldn't Iger insist on the same standard there? Is he not at that wheel?

I don't think it's about Iger himself, but it's about where the buck stops and why.

The inconsistency of product quality is maddening--and since WDW is most people's first
love on this forum, he gets eggs thrown at him for that primary reason.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

I'm not sure why @bubbles1812 things I'm angry. Certainly not. I'm a learner by nature and I really want to understand.

Iger and his disciples run the show, yes?

Iger and his disciples are blamed for the vast majority of perceived problems at WDW, including Blue Ocean. (See @WDW1974's OP in Spirited thread #2.)

Spirit and his friends praise DLR, DCL, and other non-WDW Disney properties for their wonderfulness.

Iger runs the WHOLE show, not just WDW.

I've asked this before but have yet to get a good answer. If Iger and his way of thinking are responsible for the demise of WDW, why hasn't his awfulness and poisonous thinking ruined DLR, DCL, and these other entities within TWDC? What is so unique about WDW that it makes Iger an incompetent executive in so many people's eyes, when the same people look with wonderment on the rest of his domain?

I'll take a stab at this but I'll try and do it as simply as possible, I'll let someone else expound on it ...

It's a combination of things ...

1. Iger can't possibly know every detail of all the entities he runs, he has to rely on the teams set up in each group, i.e. TDO ... what he most likely looks at the most is balance sheets i.e. the bottom line ... then we have each team like TDO where there bonuses are tied to profit margin ... in essence it most likely goes like this ... TDO comes in for a meeting with Iger and presents the profit margin(s) he looks, if its great he says, "Why can't this be better?" if its bad he says, "fire people ..." So Iger gets blame for not getting more hands on (like Eisner was wit the parks) or perhaps not realizing that he is ignoring a major profit center by not insisting on long range planning and delegating all this to TDO who has shown they care more about bonuses than the integrity of the parks and long term success.

2. Additionally, Iger and the management teams know what they can and can't get away with at their various parks ... DL fans won't settle for mediocrity and TDO knows WDW fans will come no matter how sh***y the product gets ...

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

...this is kinda how this argument is making me feel




I can't wait till we have something 'new' to run circles around.

 

[Tim_4]

I'll take a stab at this but I'll try and do it as simply as possible, I'll let someone else expound on it ...

It's a combination of things ...

1. Iger can't possibly know every detail of all the entities he runs, he has to rely on the teams set up in each group, i.e. TDO ... what he most likely looks at the most is balance sheets i.e. the bottom line ... then we have each team like TDO where there bonuses are tied to profit margin ... in essence it most likely goes like this ... TDO comes in for a meeting with Iger and presents the profit margin(s) he looks, if its great he says, "Why can't this be better?" if its bad he says, "fire people ..." So Iger gets blame for not getting more hands on (like Eisner was wit the parks) or perhaps not realizing that he is ignoring a major profit center by not insisting on long range planning and delegating all this to TDO who has shown they care more about bonuses than the integrity of the parks and long term success.

2. Additionally, Iger and the management teams know what they can and can't get away with at their various parks ... DL fans won't settle for mediocrity and TDO knows WDW fans will come no matter how sh***y the product gets ...

I get all that but the charge against Iger hasn't been that he's ignoring WDW but that he's ACTIVELY causing problems with his Blue Ocean Strategy. I've heard "he's doing the wrong things" much more than "he's doing nothing."

 

[MattM]

He has Dangerfield's problem... he thinks he gets no respect. He throws out some bones about avatar, none of which is anything new, but he puts his 'its happening' stamp on them... he gets a few non-contradicting replies from a few trusted posters.. and you all are supposed to trust him now and elevate him to trusted insider.

I think he's a florida cube dweller who sees some things pass his way (at best..)

In fairness, he's thrown out some "bones" on Avatar/DAK in general in which no other poster here made mention. These "bones" have later been confirmed by "trusted insiders."

Does he come across as short and snarky and a know-it-all on certain subjects at time? Does he debate people point for point when he thinks (or knows) they are wrong on a subject? Sure, just like a certain other poster on this board

 

[Sue_Vongello]

I get all that but the charge against Iger hasn't been that he's ignoring WDW but that he's ACTIVELY causing problems with his Blue Ocean Strategy. I've heard "he's doing the wrong things" much more than "he's doing nothing."

Well I'd add that too ... I think he got "sold" on the MM+ as a blue ocean without thinking about the long term investment and how that would impact why people actually come to WDW.

So I guess in short, Iger through that decision and others proves he is ONLY concerned with short term gains, which we all know ... in essence, yes for WDW, he is doing the "wrong things" ...

 

[bubbles1812]

In fairness, he's thrown out some "bones" on Avatar/DAK in general in which no other poster here made mention. These "bones" have later been confirmed by "trusted insiders."

Does he come across as short and snarky and a know-it-all on certain subjects at time? Does he debate people point for point when he thinks (or knows) they are wrong on a subject? Sure, just like a certain other poster on this board

All the info he's made mention of is out there already of you did deep enough, just sayin'. And most of what he has said was already known. Not saying there isn't some legitimacy to what he has said, but it wasnt exactly new. And people didnt exactly believe it until those trusted people had confirmed it. It takes more than declaring yourself an insider to be one...

And I'm sure @WDW1974 will be thrilled to know he and Tim are the same person

 

[flynnibus]

In fairness, he's thrown out some "bones" on Avatar/DAK in general in which no other poster here made mention. These "bones" have later been confirmed by "trusted insiders."

That two attractions are on the table? Been known forever
That nighttime entertainment/show is on the table? Again.. how long has that one been cycling through?
That shop+restaurant is on the table? Again...
That we learned of avatar 'early' in the process? Well uh.. yeah.. the same week of the announcement it was known that this was done outside the halls of WDI
That design is happening? You mean like how every project progresses?
That contracting has been out for elements? I would hope so given they've already started moving things (FoTLK) to make way for stuff.. yeah there needs to be some brains involved.

Maybe you're impressed by a pretty bundling.. but not me.

 

[doctornick]

$.8 Bil for Avatar, or for total investment.
Important distinction. I still hear about half that for Avatar.

But are you hearing $800M for DAK? If so, what is the other half for? Develoment of a WoC type show? (Seems high for just that)

 

[Tim_4]

That two attractions are on the table? Been known forever
That nighttime entertainment/show is on the table? Again.. how long has that one been cycling through?
That shop+restaurant is on the table? Again...
That we learned of avatar 'early' in the process? Well uh.. yeah.. the same week of the announcement it was known that this was done outside the halls of WDI
That design is happening? You mean like how every project progresses?
That contracting has been out for elements? I would hope so given they've already started moving things (FoTLK) to make way for stuff.. yeah there needs to be some brains involved.

Maybe you're impressed by a pretty bundling.. but not me.

No see, when I said all those things, the general consensus was "Avatar has been cancelled or greatly reduced." EVERYONE was saying that, including the revered "insiders." They were incorrect.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Either way if the budget is 800M for Avatar alone I'll be shocked ... shocked that TDO won't dumb down a budget for something I don't want ... but has zero probably dumbing down the budget for virtually everything else.

 

[flynnibus]

No see, when I said all those things, the general consensus was "Avatar has been cancelled or greatly reduced." EVERYONE was saying that, including the revered "insiders." They were incorrect.

Without taking the tangent further.. no one has said the project was dead or canceled. They said it was spinning its wheels, back and forth, had disagreements, and slow. Basically what was in artico's post here
Avatar progress

As for 'reduced' - even has been talked about in the second thread... the attractions themselves have been fluid in their scope. What is 'reduced' today, may be altered again tomorrow. Or even as you had to face in the later pages.. what's the status of the nighttime element? Fluid.

Nothing in the second thread contradicts the earlier discussions and if anything is more just a streamlined version of them.

I'm happy you feel vindicated that Avatar hasn't rolled over and died yet - but if you interpreted from earlier posts that Avatar was already dead and off the table.. then I can't help you.

 

[bubbles1812]

No see, when I said all those things, the general consensus was "Avatar has been cancelled or greatly reduced." EVERYONE was saying that, including the revered "insiders." They were incorrect.

None of them had said Avatar was 100% down and out... More like, is moving so slow it could be going backwards... But there were never absolutes as you suggest. An the info you put forth, as @flynnibus said, was known. You just put it all in one place in a relatively coherent way, which I will give you credit for.