Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Love Paris, their Disneyland, the Louvre and France in general. Gorgeous and wonderful country that is.

Can't speak for DLP of today, but I visited it when it was almost brand new and it was absolutely stunning. At least it doesn't look like they tore down a ton of the original rides and replace them with garbage like EPCOT. Heard maintenance sucks nowadays though. Again, only ever visited when it was almost brand new and had a wonderful time (absolutely gorgeous park).

Haven't been to TDL or HKDL, but DLP is my favorite Magic Kingdom style park. Not even DL, the original, comes close! And France, Paris in particular, is gorgeous!

 

[pheneix]

Love Paris, their Disneyland, the Louvre and France in general. Gorgeous and wonderful country that is.

Can't speak for DLP of today, but I visited it when it was almost brand new and it was absolutely stunning. At least it doesn't look like they tore down a ton of the original rides and replace them with garbage like EPCOT. Heard maintenance sucks nowadays though. Again, only ever visited when it was almost brand new and had a wonderful time (absolutely gorgeous park).

If France let me blazed herb as much as I like, I may be inclined to agree.

But Disney agreed to build in a country with backwards drug laws like France. Because of this and many other reasons, Efteling and Europa will be better theme parks, forever and always.

 

[Bolna]

Ok, I am used to this thread coming up with the strangest topics - but I was truly very surprised to wake up to a beautiful summer morning here in Germany and see that suddenly there is a discussion about the German's inability to build large projects and their rampant corruption.

First of all - I think it is obvious that at the time Euro Disney was thought of Germany was never on anyone's mind. And quite rightly so. A park outside of Berlin would have been in the communist block until late 1989. And the infrastructure in East Germany would not have been able to support any large project like this until at the very earliest maybe 2000/2001.

However, to pick out one building project that is hugely troubled (mainly to incomptetence by those involved, late changes to the project, unclear communication etc.) is stupid hyperbole. Especially since it is a public sector project which comes with its own set of problems that a private project would never have had.

The transformation of Berlin from a city with a huge scar down its historic center to what it is today certainly is proof that not every building project in Germany is doomed from the outset. And this included the task of moving most of the German government (including over 600 members of parliament, several ministries etc.) from Bonn to Berlin within a 5 year timeframe.

Finally on corruption: The 2012 Corruption Perception Index by Transparancy International certainly does not see any rampant corruption in Germany (rank # 13) as compared to France (rank # 22).

 

[pheneix]

Ok, I am used to this thread coming up with the strangest topics - but I was truly very surprised to wake up to a beautiful summer morning here in Germany and see that suddenly there is a discussion about the German's inability to build large projects and their rampant corruption.

First of all - I think it is obvious that at the time Euro Disney was thought of Germany was never on anyone's mind. And quite rightly so. A park outside of Berlin would have been in the communist block until late 1989. And the infrastructure in East Germany would not have been able to support any large project like this until at the very earliest maybe 2000/2001.

However, to pick out one building project that is hugely troubled (mainly to incomptetence by those involved, late changes to the project, unclear communication etc.) is stupid hyperbole. Especially since it is a public sector project which comes with its own set of problems that a private project would never have had.

The transformation of Berlin from a city with a huge scar down its historic center to what it is today certainly is proof that not every building project in Germany is doomed from the outset. And this included the task of moving most of the German government (including over 600 members of parliament, several ministries etc.) from Bonn to Berlin within a 5 year timeframe.

Finally on corruption: The 2012 Corruption Perception Index by Transparancy International certainly does not see any rampant corruption in Germany (rank # 13) as compared to France (rank # 22).

Indeed. It will be Germany and fellow saxon and Nordic nations that rule the world in the 21st century. Not America and the rest of the anglo world that saw them shoot their load in Century 20.

 

[PeterAlt]

For the record, USO now has almost 900 (a little over 895). WDW had around 27,400 acres at opening. Under Eisner, this increased to over 30,000 acres (not including the Disney Nature Preserve). Iger started his tenure by almost immediately selling off Celebrations (including land). He has been selling off smaller parcels, such as land on Reems Road (north of the MK), the Crossroads shopping plaza with the land Disney built it on (at the eastern terminus of LBV), the land at Little Lake Bryan and the residential development Disney built there for Cast Members, the vacant land just south of AK and bordering 192, and the entire area where Disney is building Golden Oak and the Seven Seasons is planned to be sold off.

 

[HMF]

hard to not get on disney because of the gap that is closing between the two resorts

sometimes i wonder if disney is now too big and cannot sustain any type of growth, too much bureaucracy, too much red tape

Once these companies become this big , They begin to lose their identities, bureaucracies develop and they become too big for their own good and quality suffers and then they hold our government hostage by claiming they are "Too big to fail" and our tax dollars which should be being used to operate our infrastructure and fix our real problems gets put into the pockets of these companies which is why I feel there should be a limit of how many assets a company can own to cut back on excesses, foster brand identity and a clear vision, avoid legal headaches and most importantly so these companies can never again become too big to fail and hold our nation hostage as has been happening over the past 30 years or so. Excess and Greed has been the downfall of many an institution, whether it be corporations , Nations or even entire civilizations.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

If France let me blazed herb as much as I like, I may be inclined to agree.

But Disney agreed to build in a country with backwards drug laws like France. Because of this and many other reasons, Efteling and Europa will be better theme parks, forever and always.

I wasn't referring to their government or laws with my praise. I'm referring to the country's physical beauty and architecture (same with DLP). Having backwards drug laws doesn't have any relevance to who has the best theme park. The US (where I live) has very backwards drug laws (and the government and economy is a complete and ongoing train wreck overall), but the country has undeniable beauty and wonderful things to see and do in it.

Europa and Efteling are both lovely parks, though i'd probably be much more of a fan of Efteling. But Disneyland Paris at least in its heyday was also an absolute stunner and has awesome and detailed rides to match its outward beauty. Europa clearly has great beauty on the surface but I can tell that I wouldn't be a big fan of many of its rides. It appears to rely on roller coasters (unfortunately with largely exposed tracks). For a coaster to attract my attention, it has to be something like Big Thunder where there's actual scenery and sets surrounding the entire thing to hide the track's framework. I'm not at all a fan of coasters that have a lot of exposed elements. It's a flaw that I also have with both Busch Gardens parks and Sea World (even though I like those parks), and it's also a flaw I have with Universal (though they've been much more focused on creating immersive and richly themed ride experiences lately that appeal to people who appreciate Disney rides). I value rides with elaborate show scenes very highly (physical sets and physical character figures, particularly animatronics), the more the better.

I think I would really love Efteling though, it looks stunning and has several attractions that i'm sure would cater towards my taste of richly detailed show scenes. Particularly the lovely looking Fairy Tale Forest walk (that they apparently continue to expand upon), Dreamflight and Fata Morgana. And I hear they've got plans for future dark rides as well and continue to add on to the place. I discovered the park during the past couple of years and took a bit of time to watch a bunch of videos of the park and its attractions. It looks absolutely charming and wonderful and I would love to visit in person someday.

But again, from my experience with DLP, it's a tough one to beat. I have no idea what it's like today, but I can say that it was absolutely fantastic in the early-mid 90's. It had the looks AND the attractions.

EDIT- I should say that I think I would enjoy Europa as well. There are some pretty cool looking dark rides there as well (the Pirates one for instance, while very much a blatant POTC ripoff, at least looks like a pretty neat ripoff). But better than heyday DLP? Wouldn't say i'd agree.

 

[SirLink]

Well IJA would have already been approved and budgeted by the time EDL opened. Tey didn't just snap their fingers in 95 and IJA appeared fully constructed ready for guests

But it wouldn't of taken 4 years to approve and build it either though.

 

[SirLink]

Indeed. It will be Germany and fellow saxton and Nordic nations that rule the world in the 21st century. Not America and the rest of the anglo world that saw them shoot their load in Century 20.

If Britain can break away from their rule - they will start to rule the world again - silly little Brussels.

 

[SirLink]

I wasn't referring to their government or laws with my praise. I'm referring to the country's physical beauty and architecture (same with DLP). Having backwards drug laws doesn't have any relevance to who has the best theme park. The US (where I live) has very backwards drug laws (and the government and economy is a complete and ongoing train wreck overall), but the country has undeniable beauty and wonderful things to see and do in it.

Europa and Efteling are both lovely parks, though i'd probably be much more of a fan of Efteling. But Disneyland Paris at least in its heyday was also an absolute stunner and has awesome and detailed rides to match its outward beauty. Europa clearly has great beauty on the surface but I can tell that I wouldn't be a big fan of many of its rides. It appears to rely on roller coasters (unfortunately with largely exposed tracks). For a coaster to attract my attention, it has to be something like Big Thunder where there's actual scenery and sets surrounding the entire thing to hide the track's framework. I'm not at all a fan of coasters that have a lot of exposed elements. It's a flaw that I also have with both Busch Gardens parks and Sea World (even though I like those parks), and it's also a flaw I have with Universal (though they've been much more focused on creating immersive and richly themed ride experiences lately that appeal to people who appreciate Disney rides). I value rides with elaborate show scenes very highly (physical sets and physical character figures, particularly animatronics), the more the better.

I think I would really love Efteling though, it looks stunning and has several attractions that i'm sure would cater towards my taste of richly detailed show scenes. Particularly the lovely looking Fairy Tale Forest walk (that they apparently continue to expand upon), Dreamflight and Fata Morgana. And I hear they've got plans for future dark rides as well and continue to add on to the place. I discovered the park during the past couple of years and took a bit of time to watch a bunch of videos of the park and its attractions. It looks absolutely charming and wonderful and I would love to visit in person someday.

But again, from my experience with DLP, it's a tough one to beat. I have no idea what it's like today, but I can say that it was absolutely fantastic in the early-mid 90's. It had the looks AND the attractions.

There seems more Spirited Change going on at that resort than WDW, and Dreams is by a mile better than both Fantasmic and Wishes and personally has a slight edge on WoC in terms of story telling.

 

[Bolna]

Indeed. It will be Germany and fellow saxton and Nordic nations that rule the world in the 21st century. Not America and the rest of the anglo world that saw them shoot their load in Century 20.

Oh! Germany and the term "ruling the world" really sounds very very bad to my German ears!! I truly hope my country has learned that cooperation for a common good is much preferrable to ruling...

 

[Bolna]

There seems more Spirited Change going on at that resort than WDW, and Dreams is by a mile better than both Fantasmic and Wishes and personally has a slight edge on WoC in terms of story telling.

I am sending a spy (i.e. my sister) there starting this Sunday. I am very curious what she will report back as she is much less easily blinded by pixie dust and she will take her husband with her, who has not been to a Disney park ever.

I was very impressed when I heard that at the shareholders meeting in London this spring, they said that they indeed have a restroom refurbishment project started. That was one of my biggest things last year. It was not so much that the restrooms were dirty (I would say they were comparable to WDW), but that they were in need of rennovation.

 

[coolbeans14]

If Britain can break away from their rule - they will start to rule the world again - silly little Brussels.

I actually don't know a single person who wants to stay in the EU at the moment. The burger ordeal hasn't helped either, I reckon.

The US (where I live) has very backwards drug laws (and the government and economy is a complete and ongoing train wreck overall), but the country has undeniable beauty and wonderful things to see and do in it.

I've noticed a lot of discussion about the failings of the US government on here as of late, but considering how awful this downturn has been, USA has IMO gotten off kind of easy.

Take Spain for example. Now that is a train wreck. Or Greece. Heck, even Denmark has had riots this year, which is pretty unusual.

Unless I missed something that has happened, USA is not from my viewpoint a train wreck. Although if I'm wrong and something has happened recently, please tell me.

Oh! Germany and the term "ruling the world" really sounds very very bad to my German ears!! I truly hope my country has learned that cooperation for a common good is much preferrable to ruling...

How is Germany? Only I heard rumblings that there's growing unhappiness with the way Merkel is running things. I have also heard more concerning talk that relates to pheneix's comment.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Foxwoods in Connecticut is also on native land for the same reason. NY for example could add some tax revenue streams by legalizing casinos. They don't get anything from the native operated casinos.

They get some... the Senecas brokered a deal with the state to even get these built. In fact, the Senecas were withholding their payments to the state until recently because they thought state's expansion of gambling had infringed on their original deal. It is still a half-measure, though... it would have just made more sense to go all the way 20 years ago, IMO.

 

[Captain Neo]

But it wouldn't of taken 4 years to approve and build it either though.

Avatar Land says otherwise

 

[Computer Magic]

Has this been discussed?

Oz Land and Attraction Planned for Disneyland

., Disneyland, Imagineering

“We have plans, ‘great and powerful’ plans” (Tony Baxter @ Fantasy Faire).
DbM has it from reliable sources that our friends at Imagineering are finishing up concept and show design for an Oz land (or area) and Oz attraction based on the movie Oz the Great and Powerful. It will be located where “Big Thunder Ranch” now stands. An alternate location was at the old Motor Boat Cruise next to it’s a small world, but fire-safety issues with the monorail precluded it. It is anticipated that the area will have one E-ticket ride and two C-ticket attractions. A restaurant similar to the Magic Kingdom’s “Be Our Guest” but placed in the Emerald City, and a Munchkinland themed retail store will also be included. Show elements will include a hot air balloon, tornado effects, giant bubbles, and Dark Queen Evanora’s army of Winkies and flying baboons. Word is that China Doll will be featured in the ride. The final attraction mix will be decided shortly, and DbM expects that the announcement about Oz land will be made at D23.

 

[Darth Sidious]

They get some... the Senecas brokered a deal with the state to even get these built. In fact, the Senecas were withholding their payments to the state until recently because they thought state's expansion of gambling had infringed on their original deal. It is still a half-measure, though... it would have just made more sense to go all the way 20 years ago, IMO.

Yeah it's my understanding that they aren't obliged by law to pay state tax but each tribe may or may not have brokered a deal to pay something. Their payments to the state are still not a typical tax rate nor, in some cases, based upon all revenues. I believe in Foxwoods it is 25% of all table games or something to that effect.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Has this been discussed?

Oz Land and Attraction Planned for Disneyland

., Disneyland, Imagineering

“We have plans, ‘great and powerful’ plans” (Tony Baxter @ Fantasy Faire).
DbM has it from reliable sources that our friends at Imagineering are finishing up concept and show design for an Oz land (or area) and Oz attraction based on the movie Oz the Great and Powerful. It will be located where “Big Thunder Ranch” now stands. An alternate location was at the old Motor Boat Cruise next to it’s a small world, but fire-safety issues with the monorail precluded it. It is anticipated that the area will have one E-ticket ride and two C-ticket attractions. A restaurant similar to the Magic Kingdom’s “Be Our Guest” but placed in the Emerald City, and a Munchkinland themed retail store will also be included. Show elements will include a hot air balloon, tornado effects, giant bubbles, and Dark Queen Evanora’s army of Winkies and flying baboons. Word is that China Doll will be featured in the ride. The final attraction mix will be decided shortly, and DbM expects that the announcement about Oz land will be made at D23.

I would welcome this. I was actually a fan of Oz the Great and Powerful. I hope they can make another but with better original music. Where are the Sherman Brothers of today? Someone has to find the perfect duo/solo to write a knockout score. I may experiment with Brent McKenzie and another person for a franchise like Oz.

 

[Darth Sidious]

*cough* Amsterdam underground, Municipal Museum, Modern Art Museum...all build with a delay of eight, ten, fifteen years, and three, five, ten times over budget.

Which still beats the Germans. The Hamburg Concert Hall, scheduled to be build in three years, to be finished in 2010 for $100m is at this moment expected to be finished a decade late and ten times over budget.

Not even the Italians build more corruptly than the Dutch and Germans.

Rather leave big prestige objects to Paris and the French, who renovated the Louvre beautifully and on schedule around the time DLP was build, leaving it the world's best and most heavily attended museum.

Nobody is worse than a public works project in the USA. They purposefully delay these projects to milk them for every cent. It's so bad here in New York that they had to offer financial incentive to ensure projects were completed on time or early.

 

[WDWFigment]

@WDW1974 I don't care to wade through the discussion of ADHD in that JII thread, but from the best I can tell, you haven't updated it with anything new concerning JII since the day it was posted. Is that correct?

Curious whether you've heard anything more that you can share yet. That news seemed to come out of nowhere and build really quickly, but since...nothing.