Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[disney fan 13]

Okay, but is Disney's Hollywood Studios also not "victim" to this?

Instead of the "wonderful" Backlot Tour which tries to educate and inform on the art of movie making, we could potentially be getting an immersively themed land based around cartoon car film. Or instead of stunt shows (Indiana Jones) which show the cool and intriguing process that goes into film stunts, we could be getting an immersively themed Star Wars Land.

Expect a speciality drink, more Star Wars merchandise shops, more immersion, and less information.

Don't forget Epcot's future world refurb that replaced intelligence with stupidity, or MK's TL and Faries in AL and so on...

Empress just has a case of the Pixie Dust addiction.

 

[Darth Sidious]

There's two in Niagara Falls, Ontario (run by the province?), one in Niagara Falls, NY, one in downtown Buffalo and one in Salamanca. All of the American casinos in NY are run by the Seneca Nation of Indians. Then there are the "racinos": horse tracks with video slots; run by the state, I believe. Judging by all of the jokes about Native Americans running casinos, I'm guessing it is a fairly common circumvention of state constitutions where gambling is illegal, but not on "sovereign" Native American land. Plenty of opportunities to blow your money.

Foxwoods in Connecticut is also on native land for the same reason. NY for example could add some tax revenue streams by legalizing casinos. They don't get anything from the native operated casinos.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Okay, but is Disney's Hollywood Studios also not "victim" to this?

Instead of the "wonderful" Backlot Tour which tries to educate and inform on the art of movie making, we could potentially be getting an immersively themed land based around cartoon car film. Or instead of stunt shows (Indiana Jones) which show the cool and intriguing process that goes into film stunts, we could be getting an immersively themed Star Wars Land.

Expect a speciality drink, more Star Wars merchandise shops, more immersion, and less information.

I don't see how building immersive lands is cheapening. Walt built Disneyland with the idea of transporting you to another place. Sure some rides can be educational or informational but it is also about that immersion. Disney and Universal are in the industry of building movie sets and setting scenery. Doing that at their parks is an extension of their talents.

However, I do believe that EPCOT becoming what it now is is a tragedy. There needs to be a balance between immersion and storytelling. Now a case can be made that Under The Sea in FL is immersive but lacks in story. That is just a case of Disney cheapening on the budget.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Or Eisner's strategic planning approved overbuilding of EuroDisney resorts which then turned into value engineering everything down to spinners and M&Gs.

I think the problem was they got it into their heads that they were building a piece of art rather than a theme park. Because Paris is a cultural and artistic hub Eisner had the idea that Disney had to play into that or otherwise look like a tacky tourist attractions. The budgets escalated in pursuit of artistic excellence; they supposedly overspent on the castle because they didn't want it to look out of place on a continent that was famous for it's castles. Considering the amount Disney spent in Paris and the initial return on that investment, the only way to go really was down. I'm looking forward to going back there soon, my only visit so far was on a week where there were numerous maintenance problems across the two parks, from what I've been told I missed out on some of the best attractions.

 

[ChrisFL]

People can correct me on this, but I also heard that EuroDisney had been considered in Spain instead of France, but Eisner overruled others in the company who thought it would be better for any number of reasons.

Any truth to this rumor?

 

[FrankLapidus]

People can correct me on this, but I also heard that EuroDisney had been considered in Spain instead of France, but Eisner overruled others in the company who thought it would be better for any number of reasons.

Any truth to this rumor?

It is true, I've read they favoured the climate in Spain but went with France because its located more centrally and would be a shorter distance to get to for much of mainland Europe.

 

[david10225]

Wdw1974 ....I too would like your predictions. We can say this is Disney related by asking which ABC shows will have nominations.

 

[BryceM]

I don't see how building immersive lands is cheapening. Walt built Disneyland with the idea of transporting you to another place. Sure some rides can be educational or informational but it is also about that immersion. Disney and Universal are in the industry of building movie sets and setting scenery. Doing that at their parks is an extension of their talents.

However, I do believe that EPCOT becoming what it now is is a tragedy. There needs to be a balance between immersion and storytelling. Now a case can be made that Under The Sea in FL is immersive but lacks in story. That is just a case of Disney cheapening on the budget.

I don't think it's cheapening. I think it's better, especially for these "studio" parks. I was just annoyed at the article and was writing a sarcastic remark to Empress Lilly.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

Wdw1974 ....I too would like your predictions. We can say this is Disney related by asking which ABC shows will have nominations.

Modern Family is really the only ABC show that has a shot. I posted my final predictions on Twitter earlier:

http://t.co/nWZXdSRZtf

My alarm is set to wake up an hour before they're announced

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I think the problem was they got it into their heads that they were building a piece of art rather than a theme park. Because Paris is a cultural and artistic hub Eisner had the idea that Disney had to play into that or otherwise look like a tacky tourist attractions. The budgets escalated in pursuit of artistic excellence; they supposedly overspent on the castle because they didn't want it to look out of place on a continent that was famous for it's castles. Considering the amount Disney spent in Paris and the initial return on that investment, the only way to go really was down. I'm looking forward to going back there soon, my only visit so far was on a week where there were numerous maintenance problems across the two parks, from what I've been told I missed out on some of the best attractions.

Building and operating 6 hotels on opening day on top of the initial budget for the park is what sank it. Disney wildly overspent on WDW, but they only had two medium sized hotels and a campground yet they got in the black quite quickly. Heck WDW's profits kept Walt Disney Productions afloat back then.
Eisner blew his load by building too many hotel rooms at once. Disney Gestapo(Strategic Planning, including Jay Rasulo, Tom Staggs and Michael Colglaizer) blamed Tony Baxter & Co. at WDI for building the most "expensive" (TDS, EPCOT Center, TDL & EDL are all in the same ballpark when adjusted for inflation) and beautiful theme park ever built at that point for being the reason why the numbers were so bad.

If Disney only built two hotels, it would have been just as financially successful as MK or TDL.

 

[Captain Neo]

DLPR opened in '91 ... IJA opened in '95 ... so why are you fixated on the fact DLPR sunk your ship - HINT it didn't. Another hint around the mid-90s WDI bloat was creeping in.

Well IJA would have already been approved and budgeted by the time EDL opened. Tey didn't just snap their fingers in 95 and IJA appeared fully constructed ready for guests

 

[The Excavator]

I've seen your posts before regarding Universal, and it's fine that you aren't the biggest fan, but your last questions are quite... well, it mostly appears you just wanted to get a reaction. And you have one. How does Universal lack substance exactly? Because it isn't associated with heaps of nostalgia the way Disney is? (And which is partially responsible for the degredation of the Disney parks, since people refuse to take off their rose colored glasses and demand changes necessary because of nostalgia?) Universal has many rides and attractions that feature IPs that are deep seated in our culture, and no I'm not just talking about Harry Potter, though that would be one. Their parks often have just as much detail and nuance as Disney, and the areas that don't, they are improving... unlike Disney. You want flashy and lacking substance... Just take a look at NFE. It's the very definition of "pretty" but on a closer look, there isn't a whole lot there.

While Universal should be considered the thrill park destination in Orlando, it should not be held on a pedestal just yet. The path that Universal has taken in order to garner its new audience demonstrates how the use of 3D graphics, simulators, and CGI technology take precedent over a visceral story, and combining education with entertainment.

I have ridden the new Transformers in Universal. It was a blast, literally and philosophically. I came away from that attraction thinking it was a thrill ride, but that's it. I was neither inspired nor entertained beyond the capacity that 3D effects can sustain. If there was a story to be told from that attraction, it's that giant robots fight and make a lot of noise. Kind of incomparable to attractions like Back to the Future and Jaws, both of which entertained while providing an enjoyable story, and both of which, have been replaced to make way for Simpsons and Harry Potter respectively. Sure, "enjoyable" is a subjective term. One could argue that those franchises are much more in tune with the modern age, and in particular Harry Potter, for which the new land could potentially be better than its counterpart in IoA.

I'm not comparing Universal to Disney. Nor was Empress Lily or the article itself. So I don't think we should start a "This park is better because X,Y,Z and the other park doesn't have A,B,C." It's not worth it. All it does is just drum up unnecessary debate because everyone can like what they want and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. All Empress Lily noted was an observation. An observation that clearly you don't agree with, but I believe it does have some validity to it. While Universal is pulling closer and closer to competition from an attendance standpoint, I feel that the substance of products is somewhat dwindling, being supplemented by a larger reliance on 3D effects and simulated thrills rather than intricately detailed dark rides that still provide entertainment such as ET. I'd favor more ET type attractions over Transformers any day.

 

[twebber55]

hard to not get on disney because of the gap that is closing between the two resorts

sometimes i wonder if disney is now too big and cannot sustain any type of growth, too much bureaucracy, too much red tape

 

[The Excavator]

hard to not get on disney because of the gap that is closing between the two resorts

sometimes i wonder if disney is now too big and cannot sustain any type of growth, too much bureaucracy, too much red tape

It could very well be true. But a simple start to a more complex issue would be remove the powers that regulate these decisions. Meet and greets over substance, price increases over attraction increases, and profits over show and maintenance. Nothing is going to get solved if these decisions continue to be made.

They need to go back to their roots. If only the days could return where Future World was an educational metropolis rather than a place we find Nemo and meet Mickey in Innoventions. There are plenty of places to do that. Epcot is not one of those. Epcot is the park that annoys me the most because it has the potential to be the greatest theme park in the world, yet it decides to dumb down attractions to fit the masses, rather than having the masses rise up to the integrity of the attractions.

 

[BryceM]

IEpcot is the park that annoys me the most because it has the potential to be the greatest theme park in the world, yet it decides to dumb down attractions to fit the masses, rather than having the masses rise up to the integrity of the attractions.

Well said.

 

[ChrisFL]

They need to go back to their roots. If only the days could return where Future World was an educational metropolis rather than a place we find Nemo and meet Mickey in Innoventions. There are plenty of places to do that. Epcot is not one of those. Epcot is the park that annoys me the most because it has the potential to be the greatest theme park in the world, yet it decides to dumb down attractions to fit the masses, rather than having the masses rise up to the integrity of the attractions.

While I agree with this, and always have...I do think part of it is the fact that "education" is a bad word to many American kids and teens...the way we learn things in our schools is so much worse than it should be...we think being educated while on vacation, as an idea, is "boring" "un-cool" "waste of time", etc.

Ironically the original EPCOT Center model of "edutainment" should instead have given a visceral way to bring teachers in to learn about more ways to educate.

I do know that in Orlando, making a field trip to EPCOT Center for many schools was a standard thing.

 

[pheneix]

Well IJA would have already been approved and budgeted by the time EDL opened. Tey didn't just snap their fingers in 95 and IJA appeared fully constructed ready for guests

True story: Paul Pressler tried to kill this ride midway through construction when he took over in 1994. This was his first major act upon being handed the job of running Disneyland.

It only went downhill from there.

 

[Darth Sidious]

I don't think it's cheapening. I think it's better, especially for these "studio" parks. I was just annoyed at the article and was writing a sarcastic remark to Empress Lilly.

Apologies, I sort of figured you were being sarcastic. My reply is just in general to the idea expressed in that article though.

 

[The Excavator]

While I agree with this, and always have...I do think part of it is the fact that "education" is a bad word to many American kids and teens...the way we learn things in our schools is so much worse than it should be...we think being educated while on vacation, as an idea, is "boring" "un-cool" "waste of time", etc.

Ironically the original EPCOT Center model of "edutainment" should instead have given a visceral way to bring teachers in to learn about more ways to educate.

I do know that in Orlando, making a field trip to EPCOT Center for many schools was a standard thing.

Yeah, it's a real shame. I agree. Nowadays, when the word "education" is in the same sentence as vacation, people cringe at the possibility of using their minds while on their time off. Maybe that's why we aren't ranked as high in math and science as a nation. Education is just not "cool" and learning history and about the world like you could at Epcot is considered a waste of time.

Instead, people would rather pay top dollar park tickets to stand in interactive game queues while playing fruit ninja on their phones. That to me is the real waste of time.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

True story: Paul Pressler tried to kill this ride midway through construction when he took over in 1994. This was his first major act upon being handed the job of running Disneyland.

It only went downhill from there.

Jay Rasulo opposed LucasFilm properties being put in the parks.