Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[Funmeister]

I believe his point was that NextGen would be an enticement to stay on property, like the Magical Express bus service. Another way to (potentially) keep people staying on property.

But NextGen will be available to day guests right? I agree with what you are saying but to me if I were to invest $1.5+b in something that would retain guests staying on property I would upgrade the transportation infrastructure to make it as fast and easy as possible to navigate property. Every minute (in some cases I should say hours) guests are stuck at bus stops or on buses is valuable time they are not having fun or spending money.

The bulky time consuming transportation system is routinely one of the top guest complaints. The company knows it is way behind on transportation which is why they are exploring electric buses and an upgraded automated monorail fleet. Don't get too excited about that last one.

 

[Tim_4]

Scary that I agree with most of your post. If you do not mind can you explain what you are talking about when it comes to people understanding the business sense of NextGen? It is WAY over budget so it does not make any business sense and it has not even officially launched. What is up to now? Pushing $1.5+ billion with a B? It will take decades to get that money back. They will be opening the New NEW Fantasyland by the time NextGen is profitable. Thanks Tim!

The business sense of NextGen, if it were on budget. Clearly it's been an implementation nightmare but these failures weren't part of the original plans. Obviously they wouldn't have done it if they knew it wouldn't work.

That said, a functional NextGen is based on the notion of creating a packaged experience. Besides benefits for resort guests, as others have mentioned, it encourages guests to pre plan many of their experiences. If you have Fastpasses planned for every day of your trip before you even arrive, you're less likely to decide to leave property. If you're considering doing so, there's a feeling that you're "wasting" that day's Fastpass allotment. You may, in reality, have time to do MK in one day by Fastpassing the mountains and doing standby for the rest, but the psychology of the whole thing indicates that you'd rather "be sure" by planning a second day with Fastpasses for Wishes, MSEP, and Peter Pan. Thus, you fill every day of your trip with your must-dos and all of a sudden there's no time on the calendar to visit Uni. Encouraging guests to view the attractions list and engage with it before their arrival creates a sense of urgency that "ooh I don't think we should do Sea World because I don't want to miss anything at Disney." You and I visit so frequently that we know what attractions we don't mind missing because we'll be back soon enough. A first time or infrequent visitor faces a daunting task trying to do absolutely everything in one week. Even DHS is a full day park if you've never seen the shows and try to catch them all. People are intimidated when planning a Disney vacation. The goal of NextGen is to help manage that overwhelming feeling. They're trying to take people from "screw it, I'll never see everything anyways so I might as well do uni while I'm down there" to " if I take my three Fastpasses per day, I think we'll be able to do everything we want, as long as we stay on property."

 

[doctornick]

I believe his point was that NextGen would be an enticement to stay on property, like the Magical Express bus service. Another way to (potentially) keep people staying on property.

I think a big part of that is getting people to plan stuff at WDW in advance. Once you already have FP+ attractions for a given day, you might be less inclined to go to Universal instead.

 

[Funmeister]

The business sense of NextGen, if it were on budget. Clearly it's been an implementation nightmare but these failures weren't part of the original plans. Obviously they wouldn't have done it if they knew it wouldn't work.

That said, a functional NextGen is based on the notion of creating a packaged experience. Besides benefits for resort guests, as others have mentioned, it encourages guests to pre plan many of their experiences. If you have Fastpasses planned for every day of your trip before you even arrive, you're less likely to decide to leave property. If you're considering doing so, there's a feeling that you're "wasting" that day's Fastpass allotment. You may, in reality, have time to do MK in one day by Fastpassing the mountains and doing standby for the rest, but the psychology of the whole thing indicates that you'd rather "be sure" by planning a second day with Fastpasses for Wishes, MSEP, and Peter Pan. Thus, you fill every day of your trip with your must-dos and all of a sudden there's no time on the calendar to visit Uni. Encouraging guests to view the attractions list and engage with it before their arrival creates a sense of urgency that "ooh I don't think we should do Sea World because I don't want to miss anything at Disney." You and I visit so frequently that we know what attractions we don't mind missing because we'll be back soon enough. A first time or infrequent visitor faces a daunting task trying to do absolutely everything in one week. Even DHS is a full day park if you've never seen the shows and try to catch them all. People are intimidated when planning a Disney vacation. The goal of NextGen is to help manage that overwhelming feeling. They're trying to take people from "screw it, I'll never see everything anyways so I might as well do uni while I'm down there" to " if I take my three Fastpasses per day, I think we'll be able to do everything we want, as long as we stay on property."

I understand the intended concept but at this point (as you mentioned IF it were on budget) how does it make any business sense? I really don't think it does at all anymore. I think it is so big they are forcing it to "work." Between the sun dial building and Celebration there have not been any positive comments or conversation about the system in a while...except the occasional "well, the box and bands look nice."

I see this as a boondoggle that the company wants up and running and get past it. I also think it will be a very long time before it is considered, if ever, for Disneyland. If it does make it there it will be streamlined dramatically.

 

[Tim_4]

I understand the intended concept but at this point (as you mentioned IF it were on budget) how does it make any business sense? I really don't think it does at all anymore. I think it is so big they are forcing it to "work." Between the sun dial building and Celebration there have not been any positive comments or conversation about the system in a while...except the occasional "well, the box and bands look nice."

I see this as a boondoggle that the company wants up and running and get past it. I also think it will be a very long time before it is considered, if ever, for Disneyland. If it does make it there it will be streamlined dramatically.

I agree that if they knew what they know now about the challenges, it would not be approved, but that ship has sailed. The only reason I'd see it approved for DLR is if they'd be able to leverage a significant amount of the R&D from WDW and do it for significantly less money.

This whole thing feels like an MBA case study, which I don't doubt it will be someday.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I understand the intended concept but at this point (as you mentioned IF it were on budget) how does it make any business sense? I really don't think it does at all anymore. I think it is so big they are forcing it to "work." Between the sun dial building and Celebration there have not been any positive comments or conversation about the system in a while...except the occasional "well, the box and bands look nice."

I see this as a boondoggle that the company wants up and running and get past it. I also think it will be a very long time before it is considered, if ever, for Disneyland. If it does make it there it will be streamlined dramatically.

Sure, but, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. They didn't anticipate the problems that they have encountered, but, in this case, failure is not an option. They have to find a way to make it work, and for no reason other then, desperation, they will make it work. I'm not particularly in favor of it or it's premise, but, just like Starbucks on Main Street...it going to happen so we might just as well find the best way to cope with it, instead of just always saying...If they had just done it this way, etc. It is now and always will be what it is until they do something different.

 

[Funmeister]

Sure, but, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. They didn't anticipate the problems that they have encountered, but, in this case, failure is not an option. They have to find a way to make it work, and for no reason other then, desperation, they will make it work. I'm not particularly in favor of it or it's premise, but, just like Starbucks on Main Street...it going to happen so we might just as well find the best way to cope with it, instead of just always saying...If they had just done it this way, etc. It is now and always will be what it is until they do something different.

I agree with you. I do not expect it to be shut down. The purpose of my post was at this point in time how do you make business sense of it? Is it too late? Do you get it up and running and leave it on auto-pilot? How would you change it or utilize it at this point for it to make business sense?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Sure, but, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. They didn't anticipate the problems that they have encountered, but, in this case, failure is not an option. They have to find a way to make it work, and for no reason other then, desperation, they will make it work. I'm not particularly in favor of it or it's premise, but, just like Starbucks on Main Street...it going to happen so we might just as well find the best way to cope with it, instead of just always saying...If they had just done it this way, etc. It is now and always will be what it is until they do something different.

Similar to your line of thinking, one way to approach a project like MM+ is to completely ignore what's been spent so far. That ship has sailed. Instead, ask yourself, "Moving forward, how much do I need to spend?" and "How much am I going to make?"

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree with you. I do not expect it to be shut down. The purpose of my post was at this point in time how do you make business sense of it? Is it too late? Do you get it up and running and leave it on auto-pilot? How would you change it or utilize it at this point for it to make business sense?

That ship has sailed due to the problems. Nothing that you can do except forge ahead and hope it makes up the difference in 20 years instead of 10.

 

[lazyboy97o]

IMO - I think it's even bigger than that. Once you break the 'we ONLY do Disney' mentality.. the door is open for the other parks too. So maybe you only do 2 days at UNI.. but now that you are on the 'outside' of the Mouse's trap.. you might consider Discovery Cove, etc.


Disney built up their walls with the bus service... UNI's continued success could be the leak.. that leads to a full on break in the levee.

What I also think gets overlooked is just how much this stepping outside of the walled garden costs. Going from four days to five days at Walt Disney World costs $10 on a base ticket. But adding a day at Universal Orlando Resort will be at least 10x that amount. That's $90 people are willing to forgo for someplace else, $90 they will not have to spend on merchandise or food at Walt Disney World. That's big because it means people are willing to pay a premium for something else.

 

[Funmeister]

That ship has sailed due to the problems. Nothing that you can do except forge ahead and hope it makes up the difference in 20 years instead of 10.

So you think just let it run its course and make the best of it over the next 20+ years? Could be the only option. Not sure what else can be done.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Just throwing this out there. Would the DHS parking lot have to be expanded after the park expands?

 

[stevehousse]

Jumping back to DHS being a "half day" park I think all leads back to when they cut the backlot tour from being 2 hours down to twenty minutes!

The tour used to e the highlight of the park! Think about spending about and hour in line and the. 2 hours on the tour. That's 3 hours of your time taken up! With this being gone, yes it had become somewhat of a half day park, but it hasn't always been. Disneys problem was that they didn't add anything new to help take up that extra time not being spent on that attraction anymore...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Jumping back to DHS being a "half day" park I think all leads back to when they cut the backlot tour from being 2 hours down to twenty minutes!

The tour used to e the highlight of the park! Think about spending about and hour in line and the. 2 hours on the tour. That's 3 hours of your time taken up! With this being gone, yes it had become somewhat of a half day park, but it hasn't always been. Disneys problem was that they didn't add anything new to help take up that extra time not being spent on that attraction anymore...

I also think the number of shows plays a role. It takes a good bit of planning to see all of the shows in a day, and they will take up pretty much an entire day. But for years now it has just been those same shows you have to work to see.

 

[Funmeister]

Just throwing this out there. Would the DHS parking lot have to be expanded after the park expands?

I think it depends on if the park physically expands into the current parking lot or if current attractions and internal spaces are being re-purposed. To my knowledge I am not aware of any park ever having to close due to reaching capacity for an expansion. Maybe UNI with Potter but I am not sure.

Maybe with an expansion/re-do of this magnitude very well COULD have that sort of impact but it all depends what materializes and what becomes page 173 in a new coffee table book.

 

[GoofGoof]

I also think the number of shows plays a role. It takes a good bit of planning to see all of the shows in a day, and they will take up pretty much an entire day. But for years now it has just been those same shows you have to work to see.

This is true. It's also why less frequent visitors don't consider DHS a half day park.

 

[Funmeister]

Anyone remember when D-MGM opened and the Backstage Studio Tour took between three and four hours to complete? The shuttle tour and the walking tour were part of one tour. It was long. I would say on opening day the park was a full day experience. The tour (mentioned above), BATB at original TOTS, GMR, Muppets, Epic, Animation Tour...I think it was a pretty full day. Interesting to think there are more attractions and shows now but it is not a full day.

I think this goes back to the fact that people come in for a few hours and only hit the top items and leave as someone mentioned earlier.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Jumping back to DHS being a "half day" park I think all leads back to when they cut the backlot tour from being 2 hours down to twenty minutes!

The tour used to e the highlight of the park! Think about spending about and hour in line and the. 2 hours on the tour. That's 3 hours of your time taken up! With this being gone, yes it had become somewhat of a half day park, but it hasn't always been. Disneys problem was that they didn't add anything new to help take up that extra time not being spent on that attraction anymore...

Anyone remember when D-MGM opened and the Backstage Studio Tour took between three and four hours to complete? The shuttle tour and the walking tour were part of one tour. It was long. I would say on opening day the park was a full day experience. The tour (mentioned above), BATB at original TOTS, GMR, Muppets, Epic, Animation Tour...I think it was a pretty full day. Interesting to think there are more attractions and shows now but it is not a full day.


I think this goes back to the fact that people come in for a few hours and only hit the top items and leave as someone mentioned earlier.

If your status as a "full day park" is so dependent on one attraction, do you really have a full day park at all? Just throwing it out there. You can skip any given attraction at MK or (to a lesser extent) Epcot and still make a whole day of it. There's no single thing you absolutely have to do. (The nighttime shows are probably the closest to "required" experiences.) There's always going to be guests who just aren't interested in a given attraction at any park. Making that experience a mandatory part of spending a whole day there is a weak strategy for building a full-day experience.

And of course, once said attraction bites it, then you can't offer a full day even for the people who were willing to go on it.

 

[doctornick]

I think this goes back to the fact that people come in for a few hours and only hit the top items and leave as someone mentioned earlier.

Yeah, I think that the mention of the shows is a big point. If you are someone who makes it a point to go to most of the shows that fills up a day. If you are just going to rides, it's definitely only a half day.

Personally, I think Fantasmic! is a can't miss for me and I enjoy going to BatB and IJ enough to make it a point to go to them, so that plus the rides and Muppets (and I have young ones, so Disney Jr is on the list) makes it a full day park for me. But I can understand how others, especially frequent visitors, can see it as a park worth only a few hours to see everything.

I personally cannot wait until they bulldoze LMA/Backlot Tour for something good since those are pretty worthless to me. YMMV, but putting anything there plus expanding Star Wars would be a big win for me.

 

[HenryMystic]

What I also think gets overlooked is just how much this stepping outside of the walled garden costs. Going from four days to five days at Walt Disney World costs $10 on a base ticket. But adding a day at Universal Orlando Resort will be at least 10x that amount. That's $90 people are willing to forgo for someplace else, $90 they will not have to spend on merchandise or food at Walt Disney World. That's big because it means people are willing to pay a premium for something else.

Enter Uni moderate resort with family suites and dining plan. Need to make stepping outside of that wall even easier to stomach.