Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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GoofGoof

Premium Member
Think conventions...

And you should see the nearly billion dollar casino MGM is proposing for maryland/dc

I agree. As I said in a previous post the convention business would take a hit. Losing the business travelers for a meal or 2 and maybe a room would be the issue, but they seem to be less of a focus for Disney lately.

If MGM comes in and builds a 2,000 room, billion dollar casino like the Borgata with world class restaurants, tons shopping and nightlife plus a large convention space that could be a significant threat to poach a large chunk of the convention business. Smaller Harrah's style casinos would be more of a locals draw and much less of a threat.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Of course, part of the reason they are really struggling now is because virtually all the states around there have legalized gambling (Delaware, Penn, Maryland, WV plus there are Indian casinos around) -- so a lot of the people who made the "nearby" trip to AC have closer options to get their gambling fix.

Yep, sports betting is their new hope now. We'll see how that goes.

My real point on bringing up AC is that it's a short drive from a large number of very wealthy people who are needed to maintain a high end casino but still struggles to bring in enough high rollers. An investment banker from NYC who wants to play high stakes craps isn't going to the Indian Casino in Yonkers. The local casinos in PA are making the majority of their money from locals and "blue hairs" playing nickel slots. If you build a locals casino on International Drive it will have a similar impact.
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
A 200 ft mountain would overshadow Hogwarts and be wayy out of scale. Anyways, it still wouldn't make thematic sense. Just plopping in a mountain is thoughtless and a HUGE waste of money. Just think about that mountain and how little sense it makes.


Love the art, but I thought the EXACT same things. It would overshadow Hogwart's and wouldn't make sense thematically. Besides the fact that much rock work and show building would probably cost $250 million +, and would shut down the ride for a year or two, and it just wouldn't make sense.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I have heard that Universal plans 2 huge high-rise hotels on it's newly acquired Wet n Wild property. That would be a great place to drop in a Casino.
I-Drive could become the new "Strip".
 

JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
I'm with Lee on this. No way will we ever see gambling at the Disney resorts. It won't happen. If they give up that revenue stream on their cruise ships why would they add it to their hotels?

I really don't see this type of gambling being that disruptive to Disney in Orlando anyway. Sure it will take away some of the locals crowd (declining value of APs is doing that anyway) and a portion of the convention crowds, but it won't impact the core customer base of families with kids either way. I have seen gambling legalized in a lot of the states near me including my home state of PA. Legalizing gambling in Orlando won't likely result in a mini-Vegas popping up. If the history of legalized gambling in the Northeast tells you anything they would build several casinos that would draw mostly locals and would have little impact on tourism. If people are going to travel somewhere specifically to gamble they will go to Vegas or maybe AC if they are really desperate. I can still see why Disney wouldn't want that adult entertainment competition in their backyard but since they have the political pull to stop it why wouldn't they?
Gambling just means that money is not going towards food and utilities for the poor. Those folks never spent money at WDW anyways.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
A mini Vegas? Maybe not.
More like a mini Tupelo, I would think.

It would be a major draw for the central FL population, and a destination for adults who would like some authentic grown-up activity in addition to their theme park visits.

It would be very interesting if one if the major parks/resorts were to embrace gaming and build a full, Vegas-style resort. Very interesting.

It's only a matter of time before Disney does this, figure NLT than 2015-2017 depending on how long it takes to buy the necessary political support, Imagine what an awesome casino they can build inside SSE...
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
The only conspiracy I can see is how did Disney manage to get changes made to a published NYT article?

Other than that, it's a clear case of having their cake and eating it, too.

Lee, I noticed it as well. When I first posted the link up, I saw the original article, and then when it was very well placed within the NYT, it was indicated as updated, and the changes were noticed. I love the ability of having a fresh paper and pieces available throughout the day rather than a fixed morning paper, but I see this more and more, and The Times has been noticeable with it. A piece goes up, it focuses on the negative of a given entity, and within a finite period of time, the article is updated..... and surprise, the recipient of the negative tone has greater sway with the direction of the story, or in the least has many more quotes attributed to them. That's not journalism, that's pressure.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Agreed. Spirit called it. Seems the NYT also thought that the Disney/gambling story was worthy of discussion.

But something troubling...
The story changed.

That article went up yesterday afternoon on the online site....and it was different. Yesterday's version was much more negative toward Disney's position. Really showcased their hypocrisy.

But sometime overnight, changes were made that added much more rebuttal from Disney than before. It's almost as if some pressure was applied somewhere down the line that allowed changes, ones that really altered the tone of the piece, to be made after the initial publication. That troubles me.

Also, I think the article, while very well done overall, failed to ask some serious questions. Questions such as why Disney is in the dreaded gambling business at all? And why were they, according to their own statement, making new deals just in the last couple of years?
Of course now, conveniently, they state that they will not be renewing any of those gambling licenses. I wonder what the slot machine and lottery companies think about that decision. Reckon they knew or were they caught unawares?

Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes with this issue. It should be quite interesting to watch it play out.
Personally, I think Disney is fighting a losing battle. Their opponents, including the Sands Corp., seem to be in this for the long haul, and are playing for keeps.

I look forward to hearing Spirit's take on this when he returns from regions beyond.

Not renewing != removing IP from gambling They could have extended the licenses and gave the customer the option to not renew, Allows Disney to say they are 'not renewing' the licenses and if called on it, 'Well the licenses were good for 50' years - we of course had to fufill our contractual obligations, No one asked us how long the licenses were for.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Lee, I noticed it as well. When I first posted the link up, I saw the original article, and then when it was very well placed within the NYT, it was indicated as updated, and the changes were noticed. I love the ability of having a fresh paper and pieces available throughout the day rather than a fixed morning paper, but I see this more and more, and The Times has been noticeable with it. A piece goes up, it focuses on the negative of a given entity, and within a finite period of time, the article is updated..... and surprise, the recipient of the negative tone has greater sway with the direction of the story, or in the least has many more quotes attributed to them. That's not journalism, that's pressure.

it's 1984 - The Memory hole, It's why I like printed media
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Maybe this was said earlier....but if any Orlando Park were to be the first to embrace gambling, i would be willing to bet it would likely be Universal.

Disagree - Comcast being a cable provider has deals where companies cannot engage in gambling, Disney has no physical presence in most areas, And gambling appeals to the cheap-n-nasty element ie take money and give nothing back - A PERFECT fit for today's TWDC.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Even if Florida approves casinos, you'd still have to get Orange and/or Osceola Counties to sign off on them. The former seems possible, but the latter does not.

The only places local to Orlando I see possibly getting casinos are The Villages--more likely to be locals-oriented--or Daytona Beach. (Decade-old rumor says Trump is part of an investment group in a large piece of land near I-4 and 95 intended for a mega-casino, to be started before the ink on the gambling law is dry.) Would be bad for the convention business, and give WDW guests one more reason to rent a car, but I don't think you'll ever see any type of casino on I-Drive or 192.
 

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
Lee, I noticed it as well. When I first posted the link up, I saw the original article, and then when it was very well placed within the NYT, it was indicated as updated, and the changes were noticed. I love the ability of having a fresh paper and pieces available throughout the day rather than a fixed morning paper, but I see this more and more, and The Times has been noticeable with it. A piece goes up, it focuses on the negative of a given entity, and within a finite period of time, the article is updated..... and surprise, the recipient of the negative tone has greater sway with the direction of the story, or in the least has many more quotes attributed to them. That's not journalism, that's pressure.

LOL, and I'm guessing you're a journalist? It's common for stories to get updated with reactions and quotes, more so where stories are posted on the web first.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Even if Florida approves casinos, you'd still have to get Orange and/or Osceola Counties to sign off on them. The former seems possible, but the latter does not.

The only places local to Orlando I see possibly getting casinos are The Villages--more likely to be locals-oriented--or Daytona Beach. (Decade-old rumor says Trump is part of an investment group in a large piece of land near I-4 and 95 intended for a mega-casino, to be started before the ink on the gambling law is dry.) Would be bad for the convention business, and give WDW guests one more reason to rent a car, but I don't think you'll ever see any type of casino on I-Drive or 192.

Local boards are even easier and cheaper, Disney will hire a few PI's and magically all local opposition will disappear because of the pecadilloes of the local board/council members and mayors. The more ethical will resign, The more dangerous variety will accede to whatever demands are made of them, Few will choose willingly expose their misdeeds to the public in hopes of exoneration.

Plus local pols and board members will usually 'Stay Bought' because the majority of them have higher ambitions and as long as these are in line with the purchasing entity they will be used by same.

Yes I am a Cynic but it's the way business is done in the US these days and WHY people should scrutinize local pols much more closely than they do because the culture of corruption starts at the local level.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
And you are assuming the answer was correct?, Six months the public will forget what some low level flack said, we will not.

It's one thing to be skeptical - but you've gone to the extreme of conspiracy nut job.

People keep forgetting the risk/reward analysis in all these 'Disney is a lying devil' arguments.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Disagree - Comcast being a cable provider has deals where companies cannot engage in gambling, Disney has no physical presence in most areas, And gambling appeals to the cheap-n-nasty element ie take money and give nothing back - A PERFECT fit for today's TWDC.

Ah...well if Comcast is against it then.....
Still have a hard time seeing it come to WDW though. Personally i would rather it not...folks can go elsewhere for that ( like Vegas! ).

:)
 
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