Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[ford91exploder]

Please...even to attempt to compare a Disney blogger to Rush Limbaugh is incredible. Disney bloggers are people who enjoy an activity. Like people who write blogs about sailing, hiking, mountain climbing, etc. I'm an old guy. Someone that grew up and functioned 90% of my career in the time before the computer and internet explosion. Yet I still know what a blogger does and always have. I have never considered them journalists of any kind. They are people with a hobby and are very happy to share information that they might have been privy too out of excitement not out of what the returns are. Rush Limbaugh is a hate filled, loudmouthed idiot with no sense of shame or discretion. People not being aware that he is an "entertainer" is a dangerous thing for many people that feel that he is knowledgeable mostly because he says what he thinks they want to hear. If someone takes a blogger at their word the worst thing that happens is that they go to a park excited and looking forward to the experience. I, personally, cannot find to much wrong with that.

I believe I mentioned that BEING a press photographer paid for college, And as a former newsie, it ANGERS me to see media outlets parroting political parties talking points since this is a Disney board ABC is busily parroting DNC talking points, whilst Fox is busily doing the same for the RNC, This is not Journalism this is at best editorial commentary and at worst propaganda which was associated with the Iron Curtain countries, But it IS NOT JOURNALISM.

Walter Cronkite was one of the gold standards for being a Journalist with a capital J. Privately he was a liberal and supported many liberal causes, But in his capacity as a newsman he simply provided you with the information and allowed you to draw your own conclusions.

Personally I think Cronkite's approach is the correct one, Unfortunately modern mass media is not following it leaving it to the Bloggers to get the real news out, Many modern scandals would be hidden still if it were not for Blogger/Journalists who today are the modern counterpart to the owners of print shops in the colonial days,

There are also Blogs which are purely informational and entertainment based and this is also a perfectly valid activity for Bloggers as well, I tend to draw the line when the 'Entertainment' blogs pretend to be 'news' sources.

 

[nor'easter]

Again, we are talking about an entertainment venue here. We are not talking about people that might be influenced to trash the constitution and rewrite it to their personal specifications.

Disney blogging, interesting and possibly true, sure! Scary? Doesn't take much to scare people these days does it. OMG, they were convinced that they might have a good time if they go to a Disney park...how awful. The fact of the matter is that once you add the words blogging or things like Mommy Bloggers, they pretty much have stated their status. They are right up front about it by the title. Nothing deceptive about it. Of course they are biased. What else would they be. Is everyone that posts on these boards willing to state their agenda openly? Regardless of which side one's opinion falls, it is biased from beginning to end. That is what opinion is really. Biased thought!

And you don't find that troubling? Biased opinion in order to get a kickback? Sad state of affairs for both the business world and the "media" but probably a microcosm of what goes on further up the chain. But just shrugging it off explains a lot about the amount of bs what we are prepared to accept.

 

[baymenxpac]

okay, let me help to clarify the blogger points.

blogs in the traditional sense, weren't really intended to cover the news. as they evolved, they more frequently became an alternative medium to traditional print outlets.

when niche blogs started popping up, corporate entities originally met them with hostility. usually written by someone not bound by traditional journalism ethics, blogs ran more freely than news outlets (they reported stories without the two independent source requirement, they more frequently blended news and opinion, etc). plus, imagine if you're a company that is exclusively being covered by a blogger. bloggers are not confined to the news cycle, and they boast an already-narrowed audience. in short, companies realized that blogs could be a real big pain in the you-know-what; a mini army of murrows with plenty of time to dig for dirt. but eventually, when it became apparent that these things weren't going away, public relations professionals found a way to leverage them.

because bloggers often do not confine themselves to journalistic ethics, they are more susceptible to taking extras that come with their respective beat. in this instance, that's access to disney vacations. but it works in other ways: for example, imagine having a baseball blog and being given free access to every game by your team. are you going to walk up to the owner and ask what the financial situation of the team is? or are you going to be weak in the knees over watching your favorite player lace up his cleats. it's a pretty effective way to control the message.

that's a problem, because it is very difficult to ask people who are being nice to you (mocking cali grill video notwithstanding) and giving you free stuff the tough questions that journalists need to ask. that's why when most outlets with journalistic integrity receive access to an otherwise paid event, they'll use a disclaimer to say that they did not have to pay. but rule of thumb, journalists try not to accept freebies, but it happens. there are always ways around it, but it's not supposed to.

so you see: disney's courting of lifestyle bloggers is a way to take people who are already comfortable stumping for disney (to their friends, their family, etc.) and essentially weaponizing them to spread corporate talking points through mass channels. even if a specific blog doesn't have a large readership, PR people look at it as a bunch of base hits (to continue the baseball theme). a big, top tier media placement with your message would be a home run.

this wouldn't be a big problem if "journalists" like jason garcia did their job, instead of crowd sourcing an inquiry to a group of the aforementioned people who follow him on twitter, who provide a less than 140 character answer. but regional papers are shorter and shorter staffed. and frankly? garcia knows that if he's too critical, disney can cut him out of the circle all together, and just feed breaking news to the blogs that stand in line. that's why it's so critical for journalists to develop their own, independent sources.

i know, because i do this stuff every. single. day. i've played on both sides of the ball. and i know it might require more abstract thought than most are willing to give it, but that's the truth. it's why i don't give the parks blog or any other WDW-centric lifestyle or mommy blog the time of day.

::edited for two typos::

 

[ford91exploder]

And you don't find that troubling? Biased opinion in order to get a kickback? Sad state of affairs for both the business world and the "media" but probably a microcosm of what goes on further up the chain. But just shrugging it off explains a lot about the amount of bs what we are prepared to accept.

I'm probably one of the few who don't accept it, If I had a blog it would probably be called 'The Disney Curmudgeon' "You are not getting your money's worth at Disney" Trouble is I have a real career and need those obsession units for the real world.

 

[lebeau]

So after I left seeing Rancid (Punk Rock/Ska) at HOB, I went back to the Contemporary to pick up my friend. Once I got to the lobby, I saw people dressed worse than my fellow concert goers.

No, I'm totally serious with this statement: I saw people leaving the Cali Grill event dressed worse than the Punk Rock show I just attended.

Thaank you, Disney Dining Plan!

 

[janoimagine]

Thaank you, Disney Dining Plan!

Exactly ... This is such a crock of s..... They strictly enfore the dress code at Palo and Remy on their Cruise ships ... is it really that hard to do at your signature Dining locations, I am not saying a suit but at lease a button up shirt and pants for the guys and dress for the ladies? What the hell? Your outfit should at the least cost more than your dinner at a place like this.

 

[mistryl]

Alright, to hell with it, I'm not staying quiet anymore.

Christ, aren't all of them pretty much whores who would do anything for a Disney (or other park) freebie? That being said, I don't blame them for taking what these parks will give them especially when their lives so completely revolve around said parks...and to some extent their income. Which begs the question, do guys like Brigante and sweet Lou make a living off of being podcasters/bloggers?

Not every podcaster/blogger gets things for free from Disney. The only things I've ever "gotten out of them" has been the same thing everyone else got at the two DPB events that I've been to. Who says no when someone hands them something and tells them it's for you? First of all, I had no idea there was going to be a gift card in there. Was I really supposed to give it back? Does anyone really do that? And so what if my life somewhat revolves around the parks? Oh wait, that makes me mentally ill. I forgot.

 

[stevehousse]

Alright, to hell with it, I'm not staying quiet anymore.



Not every podcaster/blogger gets things for free from Disney. The only things I've ever "gotten out of them" has been the same thing everyone else got at the two DPB events that I've been to. Who says no when someone hands them something and tells them it's for you? First of all, I had no idea there was going to be a gift card in there. Was I really supposed to give it back? Does anyone really do that? And so what if my life somewhat revolves around the parks? Oh wait, that makes me mentally ill. I forgot.

I believe the term is "buying someone's love" that applies here.

Of course you aren't going to turn down a gift, but are you really ever going to give accurate feedback on a situation that might happen to be negative or will the fact that they gave me free swag weigh my opinion?!?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Alright, to hell with it, I'm not staying quiet anymore.



Not every podcaster/blogger gets things for free from Disney. The only things I've ever "gotten out of them" has been the same thing everyone else got at the two DPB events that I've been to. Who says no when someone hands them something and tells them it's for you? First of all, I had no idea there was going to be a gift card in there. Was I really supposed to give it back? Does anyone really do that? And so what if my life somewhat revolves around the parks? Oh wait, that makes me mentally ill. I forgot.

Oh goodie. A new player.

Are we familiar with your blog/website? Just curious as to who you are...

It's kinda like bribery, actually. When someone gives you something (especially at a 'free' event) they are more/less anticipating a kind return on their investment. That return would be a glowing review, a nod, a mention of how great something is. In actuality, the 'free gift' is a payment for a positive review.

 

[lebeau]

So nothing from the OP after the shake-up at Uni? Interesting.

I swear I thought jt had moved on. Not sure how I feel about his continued presence/existence.

 

[danlb_2000]

My two cents on this topic... I enjoy listening to Ricky's podcast as well other Disney and non-Disney podcasts, but I don't for a minute consider them journalism, for me they are entertainment. I just see these as fans of a certain topic talking about what they love, and thanks to the accessibility of the internet they get to share those thoughts with others.

 

[WildcatDen]

Let's see ...someone who hasn't posted in seven years shows up at night and wants to discuss her hubby ...do I play or enjoy these fresh cookies?

Mmmm. Cookies.

 

[flynnibus]

My issue isn't what it's why. These people are fans who are already hooked on the product and will gush about it freely online, they don't need Disney's help to do so

Then your complaint is simply Disney being ineffective, and has nothing to do with ethics, who is a journalist or not, what people disclose or not, etc and really has little to do with the thread's course.

IMO - these efforts by Disney do help... Disney granting access through it's controlled means gives far greater quality video, details, etc than we got in the past when someone had to wait until opening day and then fought their way to get video of some crowded place. The news media coverage never went into the details the fan community was interested in. But the types of videos like InsideThemagic can get now blow away what we used to get before. We as consumers get more, and those content producers have greater reach and access than they did before. So they help ME as a consumer get the type of media and views I want. I don't give a rats tail about their editorial value... because I don't find them objective at all to start with... regardless of Disney swag or not.

They have little reach outside of the existing fan group which is more or less preaching to the choir

As a member of the fan group... selfishly I don't care if it doesn't expand the reach. My consumption as a fan is improved by Disney giving outsiders greater access. Personally I'm glad they spend their time getting someone like InsideTheMagic in there who will capture what I'm interested in rather than more fluff reporting from some Tampa newspaper.

So they're not real journalists, or real company employees, but they live off the company and are given special treatment and various payments. You can tell me all about why this is standard in business, but I don't think in the case of Disney theme park coverage it's really effective.

Maybe it's not effective... but no way that is the root of all the 'concern'. There is much more to it than that to expend this much energy on the topic.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Thaank you, Disney Dining Plan!

That was in reference to the guests leaving the Disney Parks Blog event.

 

[mistryl]

So are all these bloggers in a clique or what? Do they all know one another? Sounds like they offer some real independent reporting...

Of course we all know one another. How big of a community do you think this is? Obviously because they all know one another, then we can safely assume that they all share the same thoughts and opinions. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Of course we all know one another. How big of a community do you think this is? Obviously because they all know one another, then we can safely assume that they all share the same thoughts and opinions. Don't be ridiculous.

So. whats your site?

 

[mistryl]

I believe the term is "buying someone's love" that applies here.

Of course you aren't going to turn down a gift, but are you really ever going to give accurate feedback on a situation that might happen to be negative or will the fact that they gave me free swag weigh my opinion?!?

Mental notes are taken all night. Sometimes even physical notes are taken. Opinions have already been formed before the swag even arrived. Frankly, we were shocked with the GC. They gave us a wonderful evening already without it. Personally, I'm not entirely sure they should have even given them out, but I'd be stupid to refuse it.

 

[mistryl]

And, no, I am not a blogger. Just another wife of a blogger jumping onto the bandwagon. My thoughts frequently get put into his posts, but I am not mentioned by name. I really can't say for sure if you are familiar with his work, and it doesn't really matter who he is, does it? I'm just part of the community by default, with a shared love of the parks.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're really taking this too personal, which is the problem. NO one is saying people shouldn't look for sites on how to enjoy Disney, that's just silly. I've visited The Disney Food Blog on many occasions, and they tell you when something tastes lousy...

The problem is when they tell you something tastes wonderful, when they know it's lousy, and are only saying it because of the perks they're getting while at the same time drowning out anyone who might say said food tastes lousy, specifically to seperate you from your money on behalf of Disney. The whole reason people visit unofficial sites is because you're going to get, or supposed to get, unbiased opinions/tips for your trip. You can be bias, and still be honest. A lot of people aren't when they're being paid off. There's a HUGE difference there. Like this forum, it's biased for Disney, and it shows you can love Disney and still criticize it. The problem would be if Steve started deleting these threads and supressing news that didn't walk the company line, or they didn't want you to know. Knowledge and free thinking is a good thing. The problem is when those things are stifled and slanted. WDWMAGIC is the mold I wish MORE sites would follow.

You're falling into that category of only wanting to hear positivity, at all costs.

Well, if you have seen my posts in the past you would know just how wrong you are. I have been highly critical of a lot of stuff that Disney has done. What concerns me is that collectively people are calling out those that chose not to be critical and point out the positives.

You are assuming that they know something is lousy. I can tell you that my outlook on Disney was always positive. When I started following the basic Disney discussion boards in the late 90's or early 2000's, don't remember exactly, I did it because the sites made me feel good and helped me get through some tough personal times. I am so glad that this site didn't exist back then (or at least I didn't know that) because it would have placed the real world right inside my wheelhouse. I didn't want to see that. Disney sells fantasy, why wouldn't they want to support those that help with their mission. It seems silly to expect anything else.

We all see things differently. Your perspective is not the same as mine. They enjoy Disney for what they see as positives. Will being catered to by Disney, taint their overall view of the product? Probably, but so what? Why do they need to point out the flaws. If you can tell me that Disney currently contains more flaws then good, then there might be an argument, however, to line up on the dark side isn't anymore accurate a communication then the other way around. That is where they sit, others sit on the opposite end. Neither is wrong, just a different approach. I would think that they have the right to express how they see things just as much as someone more negative does without being called names or considered mentally ill. They serve a purpose and are filling the roll. It seems that they would have to have a really valid reason to be excited enough about something to be positive about it on their own time. If they are making a living off it, then like any other job, they support what supports them. If you worked for a company and told your clients that the company is great, but, the CEO has a drinking problem and we think he has his hand in the cash drawer, how long will you be working for that company.

If you tell anyone that doesn't follow Disney like we do about your participation on these boards for hours on end, you will see some rolling eyes. Are they correct? Hell, no! But they are not of the same mindset and they refer to their own mindset and might just think you are mentally ill. Are you? I don't know you, but probably not. You just feel passionately about something just as these people that all are so quick to judge do. My whole basis of having this discussion is that I strongly feel that people can or, at least should, be able to do what they enjoy without being called names or given labels. Especially from us!

 

[flynnibus]

Why should someone who is not a professional journalist insist on being treated as though he is?

Or... why would anyone think professional journalists are the only category of people that should be given access or special perks?

Hence the problem in this debate some keep bringing back up. They know how journalists are supposed to behave.. yet can't accept that not everyone aspires to be a journalist... nor does a company only have to cater to journalists. Social Media is a different beast... and while some web based enterprises aspire to be a new type of journalist... with objectivity and independence - not all do. There is more than one type of 'website' out there.

Who thinks @WDW1974 disclosed all those unpaid drinks he had when he was schmoozing and networking with TWDC staff while he was working in his earlier days? I'm sure had more than water...