Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[flynnibus]

No, you misunderstand my point. My issue is with people demanding to be treated as they are a professional journalist when they freely admit they are not.

a demand you keep saying exists - yet have never qualified or proven.

 

[nytimez]

How about shrinking the rooms down to 5,000 and increasing the spending on attractions?

No need to overbuild hotels like Eisner did only to be caught with his pants down when the tech stock bubble burst and 9/11 happened.

Depends. If they are enhancing/replacing the water park and are serious about the potential for a third gate - along with using the room for expansion they have in the current parks - then over the long term the number of rooms could make sense.

And that doesn't necessarily mean building more hotels - they could pull a Disney (as in Disneyland, as in Paradise Pier) and simply buy some of the hotels on adjacent properties and "transform" them.

 

[GLaDOS]

Also he clearly says they are only building rides that can be easily marketed so expect only attractions based on big hit movies not unique stuff. Which of course Disney will follow along with so don't expect anything like the original Epcot Pavillions or Space Mountain. Unless its based on a big tent pole film it's not getting built sadly.

Since when did Universal ever build original rides? Lost Continent was the closest they ever got, and all of that is still based on stories most people are familiar with.

500 million a year and at least one new attraction every year? That sounds like some amazing stuff to me.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Help me out here, Dave: what exactly does "demanding to be treated as...a professional journalist" mean?

In this case, it appears to me that people are whining about being excluded from media lists, not getting credentialed, etc.

 

[Goofyernmost]

anyone... but a tangent of this discussion is that the social media group is two faced when it comes to these events. They present it as fan registered events, yet supposedly they still have their own private invite lists. Meaning, the 'chosen' ones would displace honest open fans from being able to attend.

Yup...they get what they pay for. Pretty basic life thing.

 

[Skip]

What universe do you all come from that you believe MARKETING in a company is supposed to be fair and balanced?

It's not fair. I already credited them as clever, it was a really smart decision they made from their end, but it's really bad for us as consumers. We need to resist the lure of free goodies and not be afraid to criticize people's work and companies' decisions openly and fairly.

 

[Lee]

Also he clearly says they are only building rides that can be easily marketed so expect only attractions based on big hit movies not unique stuff. Which of course Disney will follow along with so don't expect anything like the original Epcot Pavillions or Space Mountain. Unless its based on a big tent pole film it's not getting built sadly.

Fine by me.
I don't care what it's based on, so long as they continue producing high quality attractions.

Uni, that is...

 

[flynnibus]

Why would they throw away those dollars for something that they think has no use at all? Answer: They wouldn't. So like it or not they are considered a useful part of marketing expense

This is where @WDW1974 thinks their strategy is all wrong and they are wasting their time and resources. I think people are entitled to their own opinion on the effectivness of this type of marketing. Measuring effectiveness in that space is a bit of 'major leaps' and 'assumptions' to start with.

But that should be separate from the attacks on people because some think everyone needs to be a journalist.

 

[flynnibus]

Who would you say is "obsessed" about Disney bloggers? Some people here might have strong opinions about this, but an obsession is certainly something else?

lets see... following them on twitter when they don't use twitter themselves... for the purpose of only keeping tabs on their activities.
Finding their activities revolting... yet you continue go back for more...
bringing up the topic independently... what... dozens of times?
following and taking in details about their personal lives...

certainly more than just a casual crossing of topics.

 

[HTF]

I am a huge fan of Universal and what they've been doing with their parks & resorts lately - but can I point out something a bit timely and worrying?

Last night Universal held a media preview event for this year's Halloween Horror Nights 23. Many of the usual "blogs" were invited (Inside the Magic, Behind the Thrills, etc.) while several notable websites were excluded (Orlando United) [disclaimer - not associated with any of these sites]. This is all fairly expected - despite OU's relatively massive traffic compared to some of these other sites, they are not on Uni's good list thanks to the leaks provided from resident insider @HTF .

However - I think they crossed a line last night, and I want to acknowledge it since a lot of people either missed it or afraid to speak about it for fear of backlash.

In addition to being pretty obviously selective in inviting sites that "played ball," Uni saw fit to invite several "fans" as media to attend the event. Why is this a problem? These specific fans I'm referring to are known for never criticizing Halloween Horror Nights and in fact outright attack people who do criticize it, even when the criticism is fair. I know this based on following a popular Facebook group that is frequented by Universal creatives in which many arguments have broken out - criticism of any kind is stifled and outright attacked on said page, and only positivity will be embraced. It's very DISBoards in a way, and kind of frightening - and the notion that Universal would choose to invite some of these "die hards" who refuse to see any flaw sends an extremely alarming message. Other fans are now going to feel compelled to never criticize & always lather on the praise, in the hopes that they might get a special invite to a "media" junket. Is this not the very problem we've been admonishing Disney for?

Something just seems very rotten about this. I realize it's a bit of a tangent, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts, @WDW1974 .

Hey they hated us before me, just not as much lol. But yeah people come to OU for Universal stuff, and I would challenge another site to have a more complex and knowledgable group of members that know more about Universal but I digress. I would say the same thing about Disney with this site as well.

Fact is I don't get there thinking sometimes. Why not embrace the people who hype your product. Look at every other type of business there is, I mean electronic giants send out actual phones, televisions, cameras and so for bloggers and media to play with and give feedback on to make the product even better. Even if said bloggers are harsh! Where as website admins in the themepark biz constantly play nice in order to get a comp ticket or invite. How many of those actual bloggers who get these invites even write a trip report or post photos? So what s the reason of sending out the same invites to the same sites if they do nothing on their blog for the event you brought them to.

Even worse why invite certain blogs to these events when they themselves rarely even post updates or news but rather just steal or (borrow) info and pictures? While Disney's Media team is just to big for 99.7% of websites, I mean not sure why though, what are you doing? Universals media team invites smaller sites but its based on what, butt kissing? The only media team I have any respect for is SeaWorld and Busch Gardens, to bad the new management team is a train wreck...(Note I probably won't be invited back since I blatantly told the truth about that disgrace of an attraction)

In the end though I think the whole media invite deal unless its a legit television or publication outlet should be reevaluated or tossed out the window. These handful of people that are visiting there sites are the same people who would come to the event anyways regardless of whether or not the admin got a free ticket. Here is an idea, have an actual special event where people could go and log onto these blogs and websites to RSVP for a separate ticketed event. How many media bloggers, theme park writers, and media posts could you get into a $25 dollar RSVP event of Diagon Alley? You want to create a buzz, hire some people who now how to get people excited and ready to spend money vs just ing away all the possible media resources at your disposal!

 

[flynnibus]

It's not fair. I already credited them as clever, it was a really smart decision they made from their end, but it's really bad for us as consumers. We need to resist the lure of free goodies and not be afraid to criticize people's work and companies' decisions openly and fairly.

Again - not everyone aspires to be a critic . I don't know why people have such a hard time digesting that fact.

 

[flynnibus]

The problem is when they tell you something tastes wonderful, when they know it's lousy, and are only saying it because of the perks they're getting while at the same time drowning out anyone who might say said food tastes lousy, specifically to seperate you from your money on behalf of Disney

If that really was a problem - then the readers would lose faith in the content and stop believing in it. Not every site nor ever reader is looking for a critic.

. The whole reason people visit unofficial sites is because you're going to get, or supposed to get, unbiased opinions/tips for your trip

That's your assumption - but you're assuming things the site may not have any intention on providing. Critical or not... objectivity is a CHOICE, not a standard for participation. Al Lutz is not unbiased, nor is he particularly objective. But he had a product, and commentary that readers continued to goto him for.

It's the readers that decide what they want to hear about and they will come and go as they please. what product the content provider puts out, and what level of critique or objectivity they offer is also their choice. What readers ultimately decide what they like or not is going to be up to the reader.

Sometimes I read entertainment sites... sometimes I read critical commentary. I don't hate on NFL Memes because they aren't objective when it comes to the NY Jets. The point is to be funny. If I want objective critical commentary, I don't goto an entertainment site to get it.

 

[Stevek]

Alright, to hell with it, I'm not staying quiet anymore.



Not every podcaster/blogger gets things for free from Disney. The only things I've ever "gotten out of them" has been the same thing everyone else got at the two DPB events that I've been to. Who says no when someone hands them something and tells them it's for you? First of all, I had no idea there was going to be a gift card in there. Was I really supposed to give it back? Does anyone really do that? And so what if my life somewhat revolves around the parks? Oh wait, that makes me mentally ill. I forgot.

I don't believe my post said anything about you or anyone else being mentally ill, you are making that connection, not me. I will say that there are those out there that have an unhealthy obsession with the parks and their lives truly do revolve around them. Do what you want with your lives but realize you are missing sooo much...trust me, I was there for awhile. 2 years w/o a DL visit, money spent on trips to other beautiful places in our USA versus WDW or DCL...truly an eye opener.

Heck no, I don't expect you to give anything back. You're missing the point of the majority of the posts around this topic. You'll need to re-read alot of pages if you truly want to understand what people are talking about.

 

[Skip]

Hey they hated us before me, just not as much lol. But yeah people come to OU for Universal stuff, and I would challenge another site to have a more complex and knowledgable group of members that know more about Universal but I digress. I would say the same thing about Disney with this site as well.

Fact is I don't get there thinking sometimes. Why not embrace the people who hype your product. Look at every other type of business there is, I mean electronic giants send out actual phones, televisions, cameras and so for bloggers and media to play with and give feedback on to make the product even better. Even if said bloggers are harsh! Where as website admins in the themepark biz constantly play nice in order to get a comp ticket or invite. How many of those actual bloggers who get these invites even write a trip report or post photos? So what s the reason of sending out the same invites to the same sites if they do nothing on their blog for the event you brought them to.

Even worse why invite certain blogs to these events when they themselves rarely even post updates or news but rather just steal or (borrow) info and pictures? While Disney's Media team is just to big for 99.7% of websites, I mean not sure why though, what are you doing? Universals media team invites smaller sites but its based on what, butt kissing? The only media team I have any respect for is SeaWorld and Busch Gardens, to bad the new management team is a train wreck...(Note I probably won't be invited back since I blatantly told the truth about that disgrace of an attraction)

In the end though I think the whole media invite deal unless its a legit television or publication outlet should be reevaluated or tossed out the window. These handful of people that are visiting there sites are the same people who would come to the event anyways regardless of whether or not the admin got a free ticket. Here is an idea, have an actual special event where people could go and log onto these blogs and websites to RSVP for a separate ticketed event. How many media bloggers, theme park writers, and media posts could you get into a $25 dollar RSVP event of Diagon Alley? You want to create a buzz, hire some people who now how to get people excited and ready to spend money vs just ing away all the possible media resources at your disposal!

This, this, this, so much this. Most industries do not operate this way - the closest thing I can think of is the video game industry, which sometimes has conflicts of issue problems with advertising, exclusive game previews, and advance review copies. Most other industries ask for, and accept, even encourage criticism, when they distribute their goods to critics. Random fans who attack people who criticize the event are *not* media. It's the responsibility of the company to create a superior product if they expect butt kissing and glowing reviews. Most blogs who were invited are *barely* media, they barely create their own content, as @HTF pointed out - if anything they kiss butt, they do what they do for the freebies, and only for the freebies. The parks need to seek real, honest, unbiased feedback, not enable this sort of behavior.

 

[flynnibus]

It's kinda like bribery, actually. When someone gives you something (especially at a 'free' event) they are more/less anticipating a kind return on their investment. That return would be a glowing review, a nod, a mention of how great something is. In actuality, the 'free gift' is a payment for a positive review.

Generally the gift provider is looking for future promotion... however the gift receiver is not obligated to provide it.

The problem is when the receiver becomes DEPENDENT on the gift provider... now the balance of power has changed.

It's not this absolute about 'if you take swag -- you're biased' -- it's about manipulation through the gifts.

 

[Lord_Vader]

I would like you to address the question that I asked you.

Why should someone who is not a professional journalist insist on being treated as such? Things such as media events, accreditation are for professionals, which you have admitted that you are not. So why do you insist on being treated special?

I will continue to repeat the question until you address it.

Journalists are paid a salary to report the news as directed by their media outlet or if they are freelance and are paid by the story yet very few pay for their own travel which includes airfare, rental cars, hotel, meals, etc. Media events contain a good deal of SWAG as a token for the press to thank them for their particpation in whatever mesage the corp. entity is trying to convey but very few journalists ever state that they received special goodie bags after the press event.

While I have never considered bloggers journalists, merely enthusiests who wish to report their views on the internet, nothing more. I do not believe there are many potential WDW bound parties that would consider any of the Disney fan sites as journalist sources, simply a source of opinions and maybe a bit of insider insight. I automatically assume if you are operating a Disney fan site/blog, you are biased toward Disney or you would not waste your time and resources on the subject.

Lets face it, the "real" cost of a meal is usually no more than 13% for food, 7% for labor, so around 20% of the ticket and I would be willing to bet Disney has MUCH higher margins. The $50.00 gift cards are Disney cards right? If so, the margins on anything in the park are at least 125% and I would be 150% or higher making the real cost of the gift cards to Disney around $15 or $20, exempting a possibility that the guest would have purchased whatever they use the card for anyway. So in total, if they had a $100 ticketed dinner the total cost to Disney would be less than $40.00, hardly a windfall that would sway most people, it would not sway me in the least.

 

[nor'easter]

No don't find it troubling at all. Disney did not call them up randomly and say..."Listen if you start a blog and write only good stuff about us we will have all kinds of goodies for you". What they did say was..."Hey, thanks for all the nice words. We would like you to have (whatever) as a token of our appreciation." It is also one of the most basic methods of promotion of any company, perhaps the biggest. That would be word of mouth. It is something that every company strives for and has since the first business sign was chiseled out of stone and placed in front of a cave. Without it we wouldn't have what we have today. So to think that this is shockingly new, is just about as naive as can be. Here's another news flash, life, business, and even (especially) religion is nothing but BS, always has been and probably always will be. You choose which you want to believe, no one can do that for you.

No, it's more than "Here's something for the nice words." It's "Keep giving us nice words and look what we'll give you."

Anyway, you don't find it offensive. I do. Sorry you find life is nothing but BS.

 

[flynnibus]

This, this, this, so much this. Most industries do not operate this way - the closest thing I can think of is the video game industry, which sometimes has conflicts of issue problems with advertising, exclusive game previews, and advance review copies. Most other industries ask for, and accept, even encourage criticism, when they distribute their goods to critics

You can't be serious? You bring up one of the most notorious examples of biased, manipulated producer/media relations as great examples of being open about criticism???

Me thinks too many people in this discussion have a serious lack of historical perspective and knowledge in the topic.

 

[Skip]

You can't be serious? You bring up one of the most notorious examples of biased, manipulated producer/media relations as great examples of being open about criticism???

Me thinks too many people in this discussion have a serious lack of historical perspective and knowledge in the topic.

I'm using the video game industry as an example of one of the most notorious examples of biased, manipulated producer/media relations....... I think you may have misread/misinterpreted my post.

 

[flynnibus]

While I have never considered bloggers journalists, merely enthusiests who wish to report their views on the internet, nothing more.

Enthusiasts - best word used in the thread so far. That's what a majority of these sites are. And this applies to most hobbies... they all benefit from special 'insider' perks or access and generally will take it when available. If that alters their product to the point where people don't like the content.. they'll leave. That's the balance the site owner has to manage. Many do go the 'evil' route and start trying to shape the message in their community as well. And again, if people don't like that, they'll leave.
That's what WDWMagic is.. an enthusiast's site. And part of the reasons people like it is that the site owner does not try to manipulate the acceptable opinions in its community. I don't think I've ever seen a critical commentary on WDWMagic's front page... and that's because that's not the product he's offering.