Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Darth Sidious]

@WDW1974 this gambling thing seems more of hypocrisy in a different way. It isn't family wholesomeness vs sin city. It's stay out of my playground and protecting your interests under the family guise that is the branding line of TWDC. They are using their image to cover their intentions. While at the same time they refuse to add slot machines to the ships because they don't want to bring in certain clientele. I'm sure TWDC loves casinos though... I mean they essentially are replicating a rewards program from the Borgata with NGE. At the same time as long as Casino A stays x distance from their market they surely will try to profit off of them. Hypocritical, yes but it shouldn't be surprising since it isn't new for TWDC.

 

[WDW1974]

A good topic. If old news - every conservative thinkthank in America has made the same outraged hissyfit about Disney betraying family values by licensing its Marvel characters to gambling. As has the gambling lobby - who have even deeper pockets than Disney and ran many ads.

I think this non-issue had its heyday two years ago.

January 9, 2012​

Disney is under fire from a conservative Washington, D.C., think tank for opposing a plan that would allow casino developers to build massive resorts in South Florida, all while the entertainment giant licenses its Marvel comics superheroes to gambling.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.co...f-hypocrisy-in-south-florida-gambling-debate/​

​

Here's my reply to konservative outrage and the gambling lobby:

I think there would be a problem if TWDC opposes gambling from a moral standpoint. In that case it could rightfully be accused of hypocrisy. With the note that this moral objection needs to be absolute. Because one can without hypocrisy oppose organised gambling and casino-driven tourism, but not slot machines or lotteries. For example, I myself enjoy buying the odd lottery ticket, might throw in a quarter in a slot machine at my local bar, but will oppose organised gambling industry where I live.
TWDC needs to be mindful not to evoke family values in any lobby against gambling in central Florida.

TWDC opposing gambling in (Central) Florida not from a moral objection but from a self-serving interest of maintaining a specific kind of tourism and economy in Central Florida is a different matter altogether. One not at all at odds with TWDC licensing Marvel characters for gambling. No more than it is hypocritical to oppose a new aiport runway behind your new house that represents your pension while still flying yourself.

I don't read 'conservative thinktanks' ... or comic book blogs ... and I think you'll need more ammo than an O-Sentinel story from 27 years ago.

Disney absolutely acts like gambling is a moral sin against the family values type resort it espouses to run in the swamps of Central Florida. Whether it is lying and its real motivation is to keep competition away (of course it is) isn.t the point.

Prior to the Marvel takeover, Disney was NOT in the casino/gambling business. It is now.

At the same time, it has worked the lobby in Tallahassee to make sure casinos don't come to Miami and Tampa (where they are desired, along with their MUCH higher wage jobs).

You may think this story is old news or everyone knows about it, but you're mistaken.

Let me suggest before you, or anyone else, defends (or attempts) to Disney's position on this matter, you consider this fact: TWDC will not defend putting their IP in their casinos or licensing it for other gambling forms. Now, why would any fan of TWDC be doing that?

Seriously.

 

[WDW1974]

Hmm... I actually thought this was still on track via IMG Worlds of Adventure. It actually has a legitimate structure well under construction.

Nope.

Marvel had an entire park designed and ready ... Disney ended it. I think they are opening a boutique in said development. There will not be Marvel attractions etc.

 

[WDW1974]

When was the last time you visited DLP? Not sure it was a good trade-off. However, your commentary on it will be worth it for us at least!

May of last year.

And I'll take all the 'extras' that go with swapping destinations. Besides, it's the only Disney resort in the world that I haven't ever seen at Christmas!

 

[WDW1974]

Maybe this just comes under the heading of wherever the casino doesn't infringe on Disney territory...why not make a few bucks on it. Different branch of the company...different mission statement.

Except when you are Disney, you can't operate that way. They know it. That's why they've kept this stuff as under the radar as possible.

The mission statement doesn't change from divsion to division when 'it was all started by a mouse'...

 

[flynnibus]

Prior to the Marvel takeover, Disney was NOT in the casino/gambling business. It is now.

But Marvel was before the aquisition right?

Is the answer potentially this is just Disney letting Marvel continue it's business model unmolested? Is this a product of the autonomy promised to the big acquisitions?

It's not like you are saying Disney is adopting Marvel's strategy and now you are seeing Peter Pan and Tinkerbell slot machines.

 

[Nemo14]

The mission statement doesn't change from divsion to division when 'it was all started by a mouse'...

a sneaky mouse....

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

A good topic. If old news - every conservative thinkthank in America has made the same outraged hissyfit about Disney betraying family values by licensing its Marvel characters to gambling. As has the gambling lobby - who have even deeper pockets than Disney and ran many ads.

You've identified one such think tank, but I've got to say, I work in DC, and have worked in the think tank circuit, and I have never in my life heard of the "Institute for Liberty," or any of the people working for it...

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Disney absolutely acts like gambling is a moral sin

This to me is the crux of the matter. The entire case rests on TWDC opposing gambling as a moral sin. And, as a second requisite, organised gambling. Depending on one's point of view, as a third requisite, since the 2011 acquisition of Marvel.

If the Disney lobby (since 2011) calls organised gambling a moral sin then they are hypocritical. If not, not. Easy enough for me. I'm not defending TWDC. I'm not a fan of them, I am a fan of sources and of accuracy.

I am not intimately familiar with local Floridian lobby campaigns, I'd be much obliged if anybody can provide us with a moral lobby against organised gambling by TWDC.

You may think this story is old news or everyone knows about it, but you're mistaken.

Well it is old news, I just linked to it. TV-ads no less. From 2011. Being a bit of a non-issue, somewhat bordering on obscurism too, I would say the topic never took off and did remain unknown indeed.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You've identified one such think tank, but I've got to say, I work in DC, and have worked in the think tank circuit, and I have never in my life heard of the "Institute for Liberty," or any of the people working for it...

Lord knows that think tank exists solely for the purpose of the gambling lobby.

In the old days, you used to just pay a think tank to buy science, facts and thought with which to mobilise your base. Nowadays you don't even have to bother with that anymore.


Edit: a quick google reveals they do exist, and when they are not working for Big Gambling (hypocritical TWDC) they operate for Big Oil (hypocritcal Al Gore), or Big Pharma (hypocritical etc etc)

 

[WDW1974]

But Marvel was before the aquisition right?

Is the answer potentially this is just Disney letting Marvel continue it's business model unmolested? Is this a product of the autonomy promised to the big acquisitions?

It's not like you are saying Disney is adopting Marvel's strategy and now you are seeing Peter Pan and Tinkerbell slot machines.

I have no idea, but it doesn't matter (except for argument sake).

When one company, especially one with TWDC's 'reputation' , takes over another it is common for one entity to shed arrangements/units that the new parent finds incompatable with its business as a whole.

Gambling and Disney don't go together at all.

And since you can buy Spidey and Iron Man and Thor merchandise at the local Disney Store (I know I was in it for the first time in 2013 over the weekend) right next to Tinker Bell and Princess and Planes merchandise, they are all the same under one corporate umbrella.

We did have some Phineas and Ferb meet the Marvel heros mashup recently that was made a huge deal by Disney from.

 

[John]

While free dining and small crowds are worthy of discussion, I can't help but think I've stumbled upon something that is utterly baffling and disgusting and right out in public view.

Yes, I am speaking of gambling and Disney. I want to make it clear that what I am posting is info that I have just come upon. It's probably worthy of its own thread, but I also don't want it moved to where no one will read it as if it was news to me, it's probably news to 99% of the people here.

Disney has a thriving casino and lotto branding division. STOP. READ AGAIN. THINK.

The company that has spent countless millions over the years to keep casinos out of Florida (and their higher paying jobs too) has a business that they never talk about and no one ever writes about (anyone want to send this to Jason Garcia at the Sentinel? It really is more of a Bloomberg or WSJ piece, but you'd think the local paper would be interested.)

It was developed under Ike Perlmutter's stewardship at Marvel, BUT Disney has moved full-throttle it would appear into this unreported business segment.

As Disney is perceived as a wholesome, family-friendly purveyor of entertainment, it is unfathomable that TWDC is quite active in this business. Yet, it is true. Being that Disney has thwarted ANY AND ALL attempts to bring casino gaming to Florida, it is also the utmost of hypocrisy.

Not only does this now-Disney business division actively leverage IP for casino games, it pursues state and national lotteries. Disney inked deals just this spring and is continuing to work pushing its IP for use in slot machines on casino floors and scratch-off lottery games. Moreover, Disney has redirected its efforts at the online gaming community where there has been an explosion of IP-related growth in just the last few years using Disney-owned characters.

Not only does this go against the image of the company, and its platform against gambling of any kind, the online activity is directed squarely at attracting younger gamblers familiar with the Disney characters. Attracting kids. (Playtech and Cryptologic are the led companies Disney is working with presently.)
...
Here is just a sampling:
**WMS

Ironman

Spider-Man, Green Goblin, Marvel,Super Hero and all related characters...

(the above deal is through MDI Entertainment which is a subsidiary of WMS owned Scientific Games...)

**The Avengers, Spring 2012, Disney inks a deal for the Canadian Lottery

http://epublicgaming.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9554:mdi-acquires-marvels-the-avengers-film-rights-for-instant-games-&catid=30:us-lottery&Itemid=30
**The Iowa State Lottery
http://www.ialottery.com/games/Scratch/IN808IronMan3.asp (deal signed in 2013)
**A letter from an outrages shopper in Texas to Marvel/TWDC...
http://otherversegames.blogspot.com/2012/04/stop-this-now-marvel-comics-lotto.html (April 2012)
**The Colorado State Lottery
http://news.lotteryhub.com/2013/05/23/iron-man-and-the-colorado-lottery/ (deal signed in 2013)

ummmmmmmmmmmm......

 

[alissafalco]

While free dining and small crowds are worthy of discussion, I can't help but think I've stumbled upon something that is utterly baffling and disgusting and right out in public view.

Yes, I am speaking of gambling and Disney. I want to make it clear that what I am posting is info that I have just come upon. It's probably worthy of its own thread, but I also don't want it moved to where no one will read it as if it was news to me, it's probably news to 99% of the people here.

Disney has a thriving casino and lotto branding division. STOP. READ AGAIN. THINK.

The company that has spent countless millions over the years to keep casinos out of Florida (and their higher paying jobs too) has a business that they never talk about and no one ever writes about (anyone want to send this to Jason Garcia at the Sentinel? It really is more of a Bloomberg or WSJ piece, but you'd think the local paper would be interested.)

It was developed under Ike Perlmutter's stewardship at Marvel, BUT Disney has moved full-throttle it would appear into this unreported business segment.

As Disney is perceived as a wholesome, family-friendly purveyor of entertainment, it is unfathomable that TWDC is quite active in this business. Yet, it is true. Being that Disney has thwarted ANY AND ALL attempts to bring casino gaming to Florida, it is also the utmost of hypocrisy.

Not only does this now-Disney business division actively leverage IP for casino games, it pursues state and national lotteries. Disney inked deals just this spring and is continuing to work pushing its IP for use in slot machines on casino floors and scratch-off lottery games. Moreover, Disney has redirected its efforts at the online gaming community where there has been an explosion of IP-related growth in just the last few years using Disney-owned characters.

Not only does this go against the image of the company, and its platform against gambling of any kind, the online activity is directed squarely at attracting younger gamblers familiar with the Disney characters. Attracting kids. (Playtech and Cryptologic are the led companies Disney is working with presently.)
...
Here is just a sampling:
**WMS

Ironman

Spider-Man, Green Goblin, Marvel,Super Hero and all related characters...

(the above deal is through MDI Entertainment which is a subsidiary of WMS owned Scientific Games...)

**The Avengers, Spring 2012, Disney inks a deal for the Canadian Lottery

http://epublicgaming.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9554:mdi-acquires-marvels-the-avengers-film-rights-for-instant-games-&catid=30:us-lottery&Itemid=30
**The Iowa State Lottery
http://www.ialottery.com/games/Scratch/IN808IronMan3.asp (deal signed in 2013)
**A letter from an outrages shopper in Texas to Marvel/TWDC...
http://otherversegames.blogspot.com/2012/04/stop-this-now-marvel-comics-lotto.html (April 2012)
**The Colorado State Lottery
http://news.lotteryhub.com/2013/05/23/iron-man-and-the-colorado-lottery/ (deal signed in 2013)

I don't know why they are being all shady and in the closet with it. They need to just be out in the open with it. The only reason why I can't convince my husband to go on a DCL is because they DON'T have gambling on the ships!

 

[WDW1974]

Well it is old news, I just linked to it. TV-ads no less. Being a bit of a non-issue, somewhat bordering on obscurism too, I would say the topic never took off.

Nah, this is just typical of your style of posting.

The issue of Disney licensing characters to casinos while opposing their existence and having lotto tickets (that kids can even buy in some cases) with Avengers characters are important and timely and largely have been kept quiet by Disney (gee, I wonder why).

Of course, if you think it is old news and not important, then why post about it?

 

[Funmeister]

I don't read 'conservative thinktanks' ... or comic book blogs ... and I think you'll need more ammo than an O-Sentinel story from 27 years ago.

Disney absolutely acts like gambling is a moral sin against the family values type resort it espouses to run in the swamps of Central Florida. Whether it is lying and its real motivation is to keep competition away (of course it is) isn.t the point.

Prior to the Marvel takeover, Disney was NOT in the casino/gambling business. It is now.

At the same time, it has worked the lobby in Tallahassee to make sure casinos don't come to Miami and Tampa (where they are desired, along with their MUCH higher wage jobs).

You may think this story is old news or everyone knows about it, but you're mistaken.

Let me suggest before you, or anyone else, defends (or attempts) to Disney's position on this matter, you consider this fact: TWDC will not defend putting their IP in their casinos or licensing it for other gambling forms. Now, why would any fan of TWDC be doing that?

Seriously.

Always heard an urban legend that some of the Disney convention centers could easily transformed into casinos in the event it was ever passed. I guess any large empty space can be transformed into anything?!?!

 

[doctornick]

Gambling and Disney don't go together at all.

Touchstone movies dealt with all sorts of seedy topics. I don't think that prostitution and Disney go together at all, but Pretty Women is still a damn good film and I don't think the company was hypocritical by making it.

This gambling talk seems to me to be a complete non-issue. Disney has from day one not marketed Marvel in the same "family friendly" way as they do for their Disney branded stuff. If there were a Sleeping Beauty or a Lion King slot machine, I think you'd have a stronger point, but Marvel is perceived as more adult and gritty. I mean, the violence you find in the typical comic book or the movies is pretty at odds with the family image that Disney promotes. I mean, should Disney just get rid of The Punisher as a character?

 

[nytimez]

Marvel is perceived as more adult and gritty.

Really? I don't know if I agree with that. I know they are trying to give Marvel more "edge," but at the end of the day Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. are squarely aimed at kids... specifically boys. As Spirit points out earlier, the Marvel heroes were even featured on "Phineas and Ferb," which is about as un-adult and un-gritty as you'll find...

 

[Darth Sidious]

74... Any eta on getting the green light to post more info?

 

[Hakunamatata]

Really? I don't know if I agree with that. I know they are trying to give Marvel more "edge," but at the end of the day Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. are squarely aimed at kids... specifically boys. As Spirit points out earlier, the Marvel heroes were even featured on "Phineas and Ferb," which is about as un-adult and un-gritty as you'll find...

Um, so you are ok then with Disney marketing a womanizing, arrogant, playboy to boys?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Nah, this is just typical of your style of posting.

The issue of Disney licensing characters to casinos while opposing their existence and having lotto tickets (that kids can even buy in some cases) with Avengers characters are important and timely

Nah, that is you getting personal when the other poster has facts and calmness of mind. Casting aspersions on your conversation partner doesn't work with Flynnibus, it doesn't work with me.


This is a fun topic, and I for one wished TWDC would stay clear from anything having to do with gambling. Gambling is a curse and Marvel characters draw kids to gambling at an intolerably young age.

But the accusation of hypocrisy falls flat. Or does so until we see TWDC lobbying against gambling on morally absolute grounds, or of course lobbying against licensed IP slot machines themselves. Because organised gambling tourism in central Florida is not the same as cartoon characters on slot machines. You can oppose one and be in favour of the other. Likewise, I oppose windfarms near my house but I do buy my energy green from a windfarm. No double standard whatsoever. They are different things.
Show me the moral appeal against gambling itself in Disney's lobby and I shall immediately join your side.