Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[unkadug]

Nah, that is you getting personal when the other poster has facts and calmness of mind. Casting aspersions on your conversation partner doesn't work with Flynnibus, it doesn't work with me.


This is a fun topic, and I for one wished TWDC would stay clear from anything having to do with gambling. Gambling is a curse and Marvel characters draw kids to gambling at an intolerably young age.

But the accusation of hypocrisy falls flat. Or does so until we see TWDC lobbying against gambling on morally absolute grounds, or of course lobbying against licensed IP slot machines themselves. Because organised gambling tourism in central Florida is not the same as cartoon characters on slot machines. You can oppose one and be in favour of the other. Likewise, I oppose windfarms near my house but I do buy my energy green from a windfarm. No double standard whatsoever. They are different things.
Show me the moral appeal against gambling itself in Disney's lobby and I shall immediately join your side.

Just out of curiosity...why do you oppose windfarms in your neighborhood?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Um, so you are ok then with Disney marketing a womanizing, arrogant, playboy to boys?

Not directed at me, but I have an answer nevertheless.

I am not okay with many things Disney markets to young kids. Such as unrealistic relationship expectations, outdated gender roles, female submission, testosteron-driven masculinity. And Marvel lottery tickets. And bad tween haircuts.

But that doesn't make it a moral fault by TWDC. Nor hypcritical.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Always heard an urban legend that some of the Disney convention centers could easily transformed into casinos in the event it was ever passed. I guess any large empty space can be transformed into anything?!?!

And there we have a use for the second floor of the Imagination Building. A place were young and young at heart can go to imagine winning back the family fortune.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Just out of curiosity...why do you oppose windfarms in your neighborhood?

Because I don't want to look at that *rhymes with Shere Hite*.

I do want their product though. But please dump the farms themselves in lower class neigbourhoods with socially less assertive people who won't oppose your nefarious plan...erm...I mean, put them at sea or in uninhabited areas!

I have the feeling, and hope, that there is a gotcha! to this question, but I can't figure it out!

 

[doctornick]

Really? I don't know if I agree with that. I know they are trying to give Marvel more "edge," but at the end of the day Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. are squarely aimed at kids... specifically boys. As Spirit points out earlier, the Marvel heroes were even featured on "Phineas and Ferb," which is about as un-adult and un-gritty as you'll find...

Well, sure, there are some forums where they Marvel characters are marketed towards the younger set -- I watch the Avengers cartoon with my 5 year and and its clearly targeted towards a younger demographic.

But overall I would argue that the movies and, especially, the comic books are geared towards teens or even more mature audiences. Marvel has featured excessive/graphic violence, sex, drug use, etc. in the comics which flies in the face of "Disney" but I think that's exactly what Disney wanted with their purchase -- to get a different brand that they can market to different audiences and diversify their income. I don't think they got Marvel to homogenize it with the rest of Disney and make only family oriented stuff (even if some Marvel products like the P&F crossover are family friendly).

Honestly, this just seems like a whole complaining about nothing. At worse, Disney is hypocritical by opposing gambling in Florida but supporting it elsewhere. Which to me is a non issue -- corporations are always going support or oppose things that are in their best interest (in terms of making money) not from any sort of moral background.

As an aside, I think a Marvel themed casino in Vegas would be awesome.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Really? I don't know if I agree with that. I know they are trying to give Marvel more "edge," but at the end of the day Spider-Man, Hulk, etc. are squarely aimed at kids... specifically boys. As Spirit points out earlier, the Marvel heroes were even featured on "Phineas and Ferb," which is about as un-adult and un-gritty as you'll find...

Um, so you are ok then with Disney marketing a womanizing, arrogant, playboy to boys?

Marvel (and DC too) likes to have variations of its characters for different demographics. The RDJ Iron Man, for example, is not the Saturday morning cartoon version. This is especially true for characters like Punisher and Deadpool.

 

[unkadug]

Because I don't want to look at that *rhymes with Shere Hite*.

I do want their product though. But please dump the farms themselves in lower class neigbourhoods with socially less assertive people who won't oppose your nefarious plan...erm...I mean, put them at sea or in uninhabited areas!

I have the feeling, and hope, that there is a gotcha! to this question, but I can't figure it out!

No gotcha...I just couldn't figure out why a quiet windmill would be considered bad form as opposed to say a power substation or nuclear plant in your neighborhood.

 

[Blufusion]

Yes. I heard the same thing, exact same number about a monorail deluxe resort's occupancy for this week.

I agree. I have looked at the prices and checked on Florida residents rates for the Contemporary for next Oct. Even with the discount and the added taxes just a one night in a garden wing room is about $400.00 for that price I can skip that and use my partners Marriott's Member Rates and get a suite at JW or at The Ritz down the road 20 mins away from all the noise and thing like that for about $200.00 a night with taxes and we would get 25% off all meals and 25% off all merchandise at their gift shop. It's been a 31 year dream of staying at The Contemporary. But for me I rather go back to Hawaii. I have been going to WDW since 1982 probably 16 times over those years and the last time was in 2007. For just one park and I have seen it grow. But Disney has slowly lost me on the "Magic" I like Universal better now. More fun there. There is only so many times I can go to Disney and not get bored or feel like I'm getting suckered in by them. Last year we had the money cash money no credit cards or anything like that to do WDW like I have always wanted. But thru my partner working for Marriott. We went to Marriott's Ko Olin 5 star resort for 8 days . Stayed in a villa not a regular room or a suite. Overlooking the Pacific and round trip airfare from Florida to Hawaii and rental car for 8 days and a 1 hr helicopter ride over the island. For a total cost of $4000.00 yes for all of it not per person. We were right down the path from Aulani. I went over one day to check it out and. It's nice but not that nice for the price. We checked into staying at Aulani and just the price for the room for 6 days was $1000.00 more than our whole trip. I also noticed that at the gift shop they were having a sale. Disney was having a sale. I also noticed a lot of unhappy adults. Why because they didn't feel like it was worth it. For us we are going to the Studios next year for one day to ride Star Tours and a few of the other rides. But thats not a given. Kennedy Space Center has the new Shuttle Exhibit and that interest me more the The New Fantasy Land Expansion is for mom and the daughters. Disney has forgotten all the people like us that have made them grow from 1980 to 1997 and have lost touch with the people that have seen it all and want more to make us come back.

 

[doctornick]

Marvel (and DC too) likes to have variations of its characters for different demographics. The RDJ Iron Man, for example, is not the Saturday morning cartoon version. This is especially true for characters like Punisher and Deadpool.

Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to get across in my last post and you said it so succinctly.

 

[unkadug]

Disney doesn't want gambling in their backyard for the simple reason that it would compete with the Mickey dollars currently being spent.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

No gotcha...I just couldn't figure out why a quiet windmill would be considered bad form as opposed to say a power substation or nuclear plant in your neighborhood.

Nuclear plants need to all be build in France, so that in the case of accide...erm, wait , what the topic again? Ah yes, Marvel.

 

[doctornick]

Disney doesn't want gambling in their backyard for the simple reason that it would compete with the Mickey dollars currently being spent.

Right. We all know this. That is why I think Spirit making a big deal about this is odd. He seems to want the media to do some big exposé about something that anyone who is interested in the topic can figure out in 5 minutes. Do we need to have an investigative reporter figure out that Disney opposes gambling when they think it will hurt their bottom line and supports gambling when they can make money off of it?

 

[Tom Morrow]

Question - how old are these slot machines?

 

[GoofGoof]

What are they doing with that money in the capital reserve? Perhaps they are earning interest on that money and they will use that money to improve property that they own. The members are paying the tax on property that is owned by Disney. If it weren't for the DVC members, TWDC would be on the hook for the taxes. In both instances TWDC is profiting from these arrangements.

Interest earned in the capital reserve fund stays in the capital reserve fund. Disney isn't taking that money as profit.

 

[doctornick]

Oh, as an aside, I've seen Star Wars themed slots in casinos as well and I would fully expect those licensing deals to continue into the future too.

 

[nytimez]

Um, so you are ok then with Disney marketing a womanizing, arrogant, playboy to boys?

"Um" Who said I was OK with it? I could point out where about to go to war again, but it doesn't mean I'm OK with it, does it?

Well, sure, there are some forums where they Marvel characters are marketed towards the younger set -- I watch the Avengers cartoon with my 5 year and and its clearly targeted towards a younger demographic.

But overall I would argue that the movies and, especially, the comic books are geared towards teens or even more mature audiences.

Absolutely. I don't disagree with that at all -- but a kid doesn't know "which" Spider-Man or Iron Man he's getting, right? He just sees the character.

I have a kid at that age where it's OK (IMO) to watch some of the Marvel cartoons on TV, but definitely not OK to see the movies... but from the perspective of a child, it's gotta be tough to try to understand why one is OK but not the other. Maybe you're going through - or will go through - that with your own child in a couple of years (if you haven't already).

 

[GoofGoof]

All things that Disney would normally have to pay on their own.. but instead Disney gets the guests to pay for it out of their own pocket, and pay for the privilege to do it!

Oh, and who is Disney paying to do all that work you are paying for? If Disney hires 'themselves' to do the work, there is profit margin on all those dollars spent too. That's the kind of 'hidden' money made in such ventures.

Disney built a property... then gets to charge a crazy premium that pays for the property many times over.. so they get all this money up front. But what about the long run? Oh, Disney gets the customer to pay for the operating costs of the place... and Disney gets the opportunity to make money on selling the 'owners' those services. Oh, and on top of that, all those 'owners' then go and spend all their discretionary dollars at your other businesses too. Then, as icing on the cake, the customers have a huge incentive that acts like a ball and chain to ensure they keep coming back for decades.

Selling timeshares in this regard is an accounting wonderland for Disney.. a captive audience that pays YOUR bills AND gives you all their other money too!

Spirit has returned and I'm sure he doesn't want pages of bickering over DVC on his thread so I'll leave it at this. You guys are nickel and dining the whole argument. Picking apart little pieces where Disney may profit from the DVC dues. I don't want to spend any more time going back and forth on that. Here is my opinion simply put: the lion share of the profits from selling DVC come from the selling of the original points. That is the economic incentive for Disney. A quick earnings boost that is a bit short sighted, but still hugely profitable. If people are of the opinion that the real profits from DVC lie in the "hidden gains" from collecting dues than so be it. They are entitled to an opinion and a theory. Maybe they are right and I am wrong. Maybe Disney doesn't plan to do anything with the parks since they are making huge windfall profits from management fees, interest on capital reserve funds and spreading costs to DVC owners.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The issue of Disney licensing characters to casinos while opposing their existence and having lotto tickets (that kids can even buy in some cases) with Avengers characters are important and timely and largely have been kept quiet by Disney (gee, I wonder why).

I see it more like this... let's say that you spend on the average around $100.00 per day at Walmart because you can get a hell of a deal on your psychotic medication (just an example, not real I think!) Now you might be able to justify it because it saves you big bucks and it is a brand product. Since you are an adult there is nothing wrong with you doing that but in light of the fact that you have made many a stand against anyone that went to Walmart as low life dirt you don't want to make it known because it might hurt your reputation and make you look hypocritical. Well, yes you are being hypocritical, but, with a certain degree of larger picture justification. As long as one part of the Company, in this case, doesn't bleed into the others it really has no basis for insistence that it remain straight line in policy throughout the entire organization. In the same light since you don't buy your clothing or furniture from the Big "W". What you do get is innocuous and of no real connection to Walmart other then that is where they keep the stuff you want.

Disney would do the same thing when focusing on Parks and Recreation or any area near that particular interest and it would be a logical argument. However, if they don't have a problem with nudity in films, violence in films, things like Miley Cyrus and the like, it is hard to be considered a completely morally run outfit. Walt was, but, Walt is no longer the Disney Company. It was never the size back when that stance was made that it is now. When companies diversify they indeed do have different Mission Statements for each section. I know you won't agree with this part, but they also have a right to attempt to keep those individual properties separate from each other and because they are separate the standard of one property does not necessarily translate into the standards of another one.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

but from the perspective of a child, it's gotta be tough to try to understand why one is OK but not the other.

Merchandising sometimes doesn't help with this. I've seen action figures for the Nolan Batman movies clearly made for kids under ten, when the movies are obviously not. I guess the thinking is, if they're not old enough to watch, they can just play with this.

 

[Goofyernmost]

nytimez said: ↑
but from the perspective of a child, it's gotta be tough to try to understand why one is OK but not the other.

Since no one under the age of 18 is allowed in gambling casino's...how will this have any effect on kids? Since no one under the age of 18 is allowed to purchase lottery tickets, how will this have any effect on kids?