Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Belowthesurface]

The staff get yelled at either way. Anytime there is a restriction there will be some that no matter how fair something is or not.

Go back through the community posts about trips since the change - it's rarely even mentioned. Yet prior people acted before like Disney was stealing their first born

Right, let me read trip posts of a select few people on the internet.

How about I rely on all the CMs I know who work at WDW for their accounts since they were there everyday.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Agreed. Though I'm not a FP fan at all. I say lets go back to the old days - standby lines or nothing. Wanna ride Splash? Then get in line and wait. LOL

I agree to your agreement

Remember the days with one line, and aside from a 101 the line never stopped shuffling forward? Kids, that's how it used to be. And it worked. Slow enough to enjoy properly immersive preshows like Star Tours without having to stand still in standby. Not going into politics and reasons again but FP harmed the actual art of the queue. And FP+ will do it again by all accounts.

I’m glad all the brilliant posters agree with my earlier post about the best solution:

FP+ does nothing to lengthen or shorten lines; it simply alters how wait times are distributed. For every attraction that we ride faster because of FP+, there are 3 or 4 attractions that we ride slower because of FP+. Think of it this way; if we get to use 3 FP+ lines at MK, how many Standby lines are we going to end up in?

IMHO, the best solution would be to completely eliminate FP/FP+. Let everyone stand in line the old-fashioned way. With any express line system, customers inevitably end up waiting for frustratingly long amounts of time, watching hundreds "cut" ahead of them. It's not conducive to customer satisfaction. Just ask a CM working the merge point: Are guests in the Standby line happy? If Disney truly wanted to improve customer satisfaction, they would eliminate FP/FP+.

However, you can't sell "no fast pass lines". FP+ is all about advertising a false benefit. FP+ is nothing more than a billion dollar sales pitch with little actual substance for the average guest.

 

[Clamman73]

Sorry I am SO LATE in responding to this ... BUT ... I am going to anyway ...

I didn't say the engine was broken but in keeping with my analogy they literally have done nothing to maintain or improve the engine in ten years or more except maybe whatever the equivalent would be of of opening the hood and letting the rain "clean" the engine? ... Anyway ... the point is that yeah all this fancy stuff is great but an old engine is an old engine so how long can it last? And while the GPS and safety tech or whatever is awesome and maybe possibly actually useful ... the car won't run very long with an outdated and not maintained engine.

In regards to attendance, to me it's irrelevant what the attendance or occupancy rates are, we don't have numbers to debate it with knowledge anyway (although a side point would be I think wait times seemed low anytime I was there this summer and have never had a problem booking rooms ... additionally if occupancy rates were great we wouldn't see discounts but I digress).

The one point of fact we have is there hasn't been serious additions to the park in years, period ... so back to my engine analogy ... no matter what the attendance is ... the engine can only run for so long without making some improvements to it and with all the money focused on the GPS the ignored engine will be a problem, sooner or later.

Essentially, I am saying, negatives aside about MyMagic+ ... if they would just have spent that money combined with adding first rate attractions and not neglecting the parks over the past few years, we wouldn't be so upset about being micromanaged or monitored or whatever ...

It's the fundamental principle that current regime has totally forgotten ... give us first rate attractions and first rate service and we will literally give you all our money, privacy, and time ... it's that easy.

I guess they want to use MyMagic+ as there diagnostics tool on the people to see what direction they (the guests) want the Park to go in. Certainly agree first-rate attractions is where it's at, but in their eyes now in order to maximize their bang for the buck, they want to curtail new experiences (whether it's a dark ride, meet and greet, mountain, etc) to what's already popular to visitors.

Magic Band with fastpass choices is going to give them some real good data that they can base future decisions on.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

These sorts of hypotheticals are really rewriting the scenario into something completely different. If Walt Disney World was never left to rot there would be no need for new experiences or a massive technology upgrade. Even if, five or so years ago when NextGen was born, they had decided to plow forward with new and refreshed experiences, there would still be a need to update the technological backbone of the Resort. Much of NextGen is/was inevitable and being mad at it ignores the far larger cultural and business issues behind the operation of Walt Disney World that will not be fixed by new experiences alone.

I didn't say ignore one for the other ... I said they needed to do both ("if they would just have spent that money [i.e. the nextgen money] combined with adding first rate attractions")

Disney is the one saying it's one or the other ... not me and my point was I don't understand why it has to be.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I didn't say ignore one for the other ... I said they needed to do both ("if they would just have spent that money [i.e. the nextgen money] combined with adding first rate attractions")

Disney is the one saying it's one or the other ... not me and my point was I don't understand why it has to be.

Because the Resort is now at the point where addressing these issues will run in the billions of dollars. Like it or not, pouring something like $5 billion into Walt Disney World is going to be an incredibly hard sell. We also cannot deny that the existing slate does continue to get people to show up. While I do not believe NextGen was the start of a massive reinvestment to get the Resort up to par on all levels, I have a hard time disagreeing with it being first. Only physical infrastructure probably could have taken priority, but that then is also the tough sell as a lump sum project due to the lack of any sort of expected return. And if Walt Disney World is capable of drawing even being crowds with the physical expansion of experiences, that's an even big jump that now needs to be made when it comes time to address the infrastructure.

 

[Sue_Vongello]

Because the Resort is now at the point where addressing these issues will run in the billions of dollars. Like it or not, pouring something like $5 billion into Walt Disney World is going to be an incredibly hard sell. We also cannot deny that the existing slate does continue to get people to show up. While I do not believe NextGen was the start of a massive reinvestment to get the Resort up to par on all levels, I have a hard time disagreeing with it being first. Only physical infrastructure probably could have taken priority, but that then is also the tough sell as a lump sum project due to the lack of any sort of expected return. And if Walt Disney World is capable of drawing even being crowds with the physical expansion of experiences, that's an even big jump that now needs to be made when it comes time to address the infrastructure.

In theory I don't disagree with you that infrastructure needs to be invested in, clearly ... here's two problems I have ...

1. You basically are on the same page with me because you say that essentially they ran the infrastructure into the ground so now that's why they are spending what they are spending ... to me that should be a big clue that they shouldn't do that with investment into attractions, etc ...

2. I wish I could take what you say at face value, I really do, but knowing what we know about TDO and Iger et al ... I have to believe that the serious money invested in NextGen was not just infrastructure upgrades but all the research and design into the little tracking features and data mining tech etc designed to squeeze the money out of us is what really cost them the money.

Either way let me sum up this way ... whatever they spent, it was more than just infrastructure and it was more than they should have spent, and while infrastructure is vital to WDW they should have invested in both infrastructure and attractions the whole way ... the lesson they should have learned by now is it's much more cost effective to improve and maintain all along the way then to neglect and run something into the ground and then in the final hour try to revive it quickly before it dies.

 

[merry68]

This is the upper management spin of course in the WDW current cast magazine shared with me by a cast member.

A lot of puff praise to the cast is omitted but this is the one guest quote included.



"... Guest testing of MyMagic+ is under way.

MyMagic+ is the next generation of the Guest experience, and
with it we are taking another step forward to evolve “how” people
experience our parks by making it easier than ever before for Guests
to have the best possible Walt Disney World vacation.

Thanks to this summer’s testing period, we know that we are on
the right track. Thus far, Guests who tested MyMagic+ have
overwhelmingly indicated that using My Disney Experience, making
FastPass+ selections, and using MagicBands made their experience
even better. One of my favorite quotes came from a Disney Vacation
Club Member who said that MyMagic+ had “given me my vacation
back” because she could relax knowing that her family’s favorite
experiences were planned.... ."

"overwhelmingly" really? More spin than a ride on the teacups.

Say what? tell that to the woman who was beside me at Mouse Gear last week. She went off about her MBs and all the troubles she and her family were having. She was not blasting the CM waiting on her, she was truly frustrated at the situation and was tired of wasting time getting MB issues fixed. The CMs felt bad for her, I felt bad for her,, and she actually had a decent attitude about it, she wasn't angry at the CMs, but I think she was ready to throw her MBs in the Lagoon.

When we got home last nite, I realized that when we go back down in Mid Oct, we are staying at a test resort. I am not sure I want to participate because it is truly a long weekend trip, so my time is precious and I don't need to waste time trying to get MB issues figured out.

But then again, if I participate I can also give my honest opinion of my experience. hmmm....

 

[merry68]

One really big issue with Fastpass+:
Who seriously wants to decide what they want to ride 60 days out? When I go, of course dining reservations are made and EMH helps determine the park of the day. But other than that, I have no clue what to do that day. In August, the weather determines a big part of the day. Last time I checked there was no 60+ day forecast.

One giant flop this will be.

This is me right now.. we just got back from a quick trip to WDW and I realized that I can book FP+ for our mid Oct trip. But I cannot even fathom what I want to do. I messed around with it a bit on the Disney site, but ugh. And the only reason we went down last week was to squeeze in a last minute trip before school starts, that trip was literally booked 3 weeks ago.

I also do NOT like the idea of having 3 FPs tied to 1 park per day. My 11yr old was not happy when she found out she cannot book Pooh in the morning and then Star Tours in the late afternoon. She said "Disney needs to get its act together". LOL Listen the kids TDO! THey are your future dollars!!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Say what? tell that to the woman who was beside me at Mouse Gear last week. She went off about her MBs and all the troubles she and her family were having. She was not blasting the CM waiting on her, she was truly frustrated at the situation and was tired of wasting time getting MB issues fixed. The CMs felt bad for her, I felt bad for her,, and she actually had a decent attitude about it, she wasn't angry at the CMs, but I think she was ready to throw her MBs in the Lagoon.

When we got home last nite, I realized that when we go back down in Mid Oct, we are staying at a test resort. I am not sure I want to participate because it is truly a long weekend trip, so my time is precious and I don't need to waste time trying to get MB issues figured out.

But then again, if I participate I can also give my honest opinion of my experience. hmmm....

And you might even get a few "extras" for participating. Don't know what exactly, but it could be pretty good I would think.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

What I wonder is will a CM give someone a sympathy pass for such a circumstance. Hopefully people won't be forced into such a situation with picking FPs...

I imagine situations like this could happen fairly regularly. It would defeat the purpose of the system if they dole out sympathy FPs every time the system doesn't create the perfect vacation for people.

Just an example of the slippery slope this presents. A lot of what we're hearing on this forum is negative feedback on NG (well, what I'm reading at least), but we're also seeing some positive reviews. The problem is that this is just a small sampling. Technical glitches will (hopefully) be remedied, but the larger scheduling issues, etc will only get worse as more guests flood the system. I just don't see how this is going to create a better vacation for anyone.

The way WDW marketing and social media convinces Guests that they have to "do everything" (if I see another "What attraction do you race to at MK?" social media post I'm going to be sick), makes it so FP+ creates the illusion of letting them do everything, and making it easier. As I said before, I really hope it does achieve that goal. I just don't see how it's likely, though. Especially not for Guests like me who like to, you know, relax on vacation. Oh, and have some spontaneity. What a novel idea!

 

[PhotoDave219]

Right, let me read trip posts of a select few people on the internet.

How about I rely on all the CMs I know who work at WDW for their accounts since they were there everyday.

But here's the thing. Cast members already know how the system works. They know how the system is supposed to work. They are fully versed on everything Disney and help to not only jumps all the hoops that Disney presents, they are able to avoid some of them.

I am very interested in hearing the opinions of guests who have never been here about NexGen, the magic bands, and my magic plus.

You give a cast member anything with the Mickey logo on it, there to go ape over it. Because that's just how they are. That's the nature of the cast members for right or for wrong.

I want the people who have no clue what they are doing to try and beta-test this thing. Because those are going to give you your best answers, your best critiques, and show you exactly what you are doing wrong.

So I believe the trip reports of the people who rarely or have never come here before speak volumes more then a cast members who know the system.

 

[ToTBellHop]

You still miss 'The Game' don't you

Only went to The Game once...not as important to me as an undergrad.

 

[MattM]

In theory I don't disagree with you that infrastructure needs to be invested in, clearly ... here's two problems I have ...

1. You basically are on the same page with me because you say that essentially they ran the infrastructure into the ground so now that's why they are spending what they are spending ... to me that should be a big clue that they shouldn't do that with investment into attractions, etc ...

2. I wish I could take what you say at face value, I really do, but knowing what we know about TDO and Iger et al ... I have to believe that the serious money invested in NextGen was not just infrastructure upgrades but all the research and design into the little tracking features and data mining tech etc designed to squeeze the money out of us is what really cost them the money.

Either way let me sum up this way ... whatever they spent, it was more than just infrastructure and it was more than they should have spent, and while infrastructure is vital to WDW they should have invested in both infrastructure and attractions the whole way ... the lesson they should have learned by now is it's much more cost effective to improve and maintain all along the way then to neglect and run something into the ground and then in the final hour try to revive it quickly before it dies.

I don't think they so much ran infrastructure into the ground as they just did not take necessary maintenance/upgrades/etc as needed.

But we agree that this is a self inflicted wound.

 

[twebber55]

im intrigued by FP+ cant say i will like it or hate but im curious how i will feel about it...not big on planning 60 days in advance but i am curious about having those fast passes already without running all over the park...like with anything else i will try not to judge before its fully rolled out...on the service im skeptical because of the cost

 

[lspicknall]

When they actually start rolling out NGE across the resort, does that mean they will stop selling aluminum foil in the resort stores.

 

[Pentacat]

I agree to your agreement

Remember the days with one line, and aside from a 101 the line never stopped shuffling forward? Kids, that's how it used to be. And it worked. Slow enough to enjoy properly immersive preshows like Star Tours without having to stand still in standby. Not going into politics and reasons again but FP harmed the actual art of the queue. And FP+ will do it again by all accounts.

That brings up an excellent question. Now that FP+ has people tied to reservation times for rides what happens when an attraction goes down for any period of time? You're forcing people to plan their vacations out to the hour (or minute?) while continuing to go cheap on maintenance, sounds like a bad combination to me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

1. You basically are on the same page with me because you say that essentially they ran the infrastructure into the ground so now that's why they are spending what they are spending ... to me that should be a big clue that they shouldn't do that with investment into attractions, etc ...

But imagine having three or four expensive repairs needed on your house. How would you tackle them? One at a time or try and do a little here and there as much as possible? Attractions however still fall outside of the current view of Walt Disney World as a hotel and timeshare development and well as a continued comfort with current levels of attendance. And if we did have people in charge who wanted to focus on attractions and experiences as the primary draw, they'd still be stuck with the choice of one at a time or a little for each.

On top of this, I am not really interested in what today's Disney will offer in terms of attractions and experiences. It'll like be the same soulless brand experiences that lack heart. With NextGen we at least remove some (depending on how well it all ends up being put together) technological upgrades that have been covered leaving room for there to be a focus on experiences that live up to the Disney legacy.

 

[PhotoDave219]

When they actually start rolling out NGE across the resort, does that mean they will stop selling aluminum foil in the resort stores.

They don't sell aluminum foil at the resorts to begin with.

Except for Fort wilderness Campground, I believe it sold there.

Better off going to Publix or Walmart if you're searching for aluminum foil.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Exactly. I remember when FPs return times started being enforced, people were so angry because their FP plans were now "ruined." This would be ten times worse.

To be fair, Fastpass+ will allow you to change your Fastpass times for the attractions to other available windows if you are going to miss them. Of course, the whole concept of using your Smartphone or in-park iPads to schedule and re-schedule ride times is even less user-friendly than "legacy Fastpass."

Legacy Fastpass may seem like a no-brainer to us, but a huge portion of WDW guests do not have a solid grasp on it and it negatively impacts their vacation.

Edit: whoops, this part was from many pages ago that I never posted but was in here as a draft.

I agree to your agreement

Remember the days with one line, and aside from a 101 the line never stopped shuffling forward? Kids, that's how it used to be. And it worked. Slow enough to enjoy properly immersive preshows like Star Tours without having to stand still in standby. Not going into politics and reasons again but FP harmed the actual art of the queue. And FP+ will do it again by all accounts.

Yep. Not only would the standby lines continuously shuffle forward, they would be shorter!

And if anyone wants to debate that the current Fastpass model (since we don't know how it will be when its all Fastpass+ or nothing) doesn't drastically artificially inflate the standby lines to longer than they would be if Fastpass didn't exist, I am willing to post an entire thread on it with reasons why it absolutely does.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

And if anyone wants to debate that the current Fastpass model (since we don't know how it will be when its all Fastpass+ or nothing) doesn't drastically artificially inflate the standby lines to longer than they would be if Fastpass didn't exist, I am willing to post an entire thread on it with reasons why it absolutely does.

My brother was a Fantasyland CP in Spring 1999 and saw firsthand the direct impact of a before-FP/after-FP MK. He complained about it to me every night when we talked (we're twins and it was our first time separated, lol...it's okay to laugh, but we're close!), and complained about how it negatively impacted Guests. It was a very popular topic of discussions in break rooms and Vista Way at the time, apparently.

It's another one of those Disney Forums debates I typically avoid, because some people will assert that it doesn't make lines longer or create a negative experience, no matter how much evidence you give them.