Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[WildcatDen]

As Ben Franklin allegedly wrote:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I wonder what he defined as "Essential"? But hey, let's open up the borders, get rid of guns, get rid of jails and just assume everyone will do the 'right' things in society. We wouldn't ant to take away anyone's liberties, would we?

 

[Goofyernmost]

So the fact that they can hit their attendance targets without traditional TV advertisements is supposed to be a sign that their system is a failure? Seems to me that it reinforces the model. If they were desperate for guests, THAT'S when you'd see an all out media blitz in those channels.

It's been my experience that they cycle their advertising areas depending on the time of the year. For example the closer you are to WDW the more you will see commercials regularly. If you live in the north they start intense advertising just a day or so before the first major snowstorm and continue through-out the winter. Going to WDW really doesn't need to be sold. What they need to do is give a little shove when the stars align properly.

 

[MattM]

A journalist is supposed to use their professional skill to decipher between PR spin and a presentation of facts. There aren't always two sides to a story and a news piece doesn't have to reflect such.

There may not always be two sides to a story (though I'm not surei believe that),but that doesn't mean there aren't two sides to THIS story.

 

[nor'easter]

I wonder what he defined as "Essential"? But hey, let's open up the borders, get rid of guns, get rid of jails

Immigration made America a great nation.

Limiting guns is a great idea. Most western countries do it, and people are safer.

Can't get rid of jails, unfortunately, but don't need to keep throwing all offenders in prison .

So, good points. I guess you also dislike next-gen.

 

[alissafalco]

I was thinking the other day - I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for WDW on TV. Granted I don't watch a lot of TV and avoid commercials. Still, some slip through, but to me it appears that they don't advertise WDW. Maybe it's become too difficult.

"Come to WDW...You'll Figure it Out!"

or

"Plan Your Adventure. 180 Days Out."

I saw some at the beginning of spring- april/may. They advertised "come see the new fantasy land" & "dine in beasts castle" and they showed a family in BOG. They also showed The little mermaid ride.

 

[MattM]

It's been my experience that they cycle their advertising areas depending on the time of the year. For example the closer you are to WDW the more you will see commercials regularly. If you live in the north they start intense advertising just a day or so before the first major snowstorm and continue through-out the winter. Going to WDW really doesn't need to be sold. What they need to do is give a little shove when the stars align properly.

I'm a local, and I can't recall the last time that I saw a Disney commercial in Orlando, except for the Wild 3 Day Pass for Florida Residents (or whatever it is called).

 

[jkl2000]

Don't forget to schedule your rapid refills beginning 45 days out from your visit!

 

[alphac2005]

There may not always be two sides to a story (though I'm not surei believe that),but that doesn't mean there aren't two sides to THIS story.

I'm going a different route than where this talk has gone. You're right, there are two stories here, I agree, but not in the standard model of us vs. them. TWDC has created a system that they argue (to the market and internally) will increase their revenue stream and the visitor, in many cases, has a fundamentally altered way to attend a theme park with a structured, micromanaged trip. So, when we take out all of the noise, that's the truth of the matter. TWDC (like any business) doesn't want to play to the revenue angle, but that's the reality of what this entire infrastructure is all about. (I'm not going into the conspiracies floated about here.)

Now, even though I see two sides so to speak, it doesn't mean that both are correct. You can present both sides of a story, but a quality journalist can cut through the spin and present reality and truth from an unbiased point of view. One may be very much more correct (or correct, period) than the other side. If businesses were more transparent with their intentions instead of creating things under the guise of improving their customer's experience, it might earn them much greater public trust.

 

[Wikkler]

MiceChat's Orlando Parkhopper says BGW and BGT are no longer on the chopping block.

Aw man, I was looking forward to AT&T World Virginia....

 

[englanddg]

"Attention cruisers,this is your Activities Director speaking. Remember to register for the beer belly and belly flop contest today at 2 PM by the adult pool."

Git er done!

 

[CDavid]

As Ben Franklin allegedly wrote:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I wonder what he defined as "Essential"? But hey, let's open up the borders, get rid of guns, get rid of jails and just assume everyone will do the 'right' things in society. We wouldn't ant to take away anyone's liberties, would we?

Remember way, way back in elementary school civics' class when your instructor explained that the U.S. justice system can be so convoluted sometimes based on the idea that we would rather let a few criminals go free than erroneously imprison a single innocent individual (of course, it rarely happens anyway). The "war on terror" almost has it backwards, suggesting it is necessary and appropriate to infringe upon the rights and liberties of everyone rather than let even one would-be terrorist slip through the cracks.

But it doesn't work that way. Even if we set aside the loss of personal freedoms and privacy, you can never be perfectly safe even under an oppressive "police" state. Hence, the greater need to protect our "essential liberties" and not compromise personal freedom (privacy) for a false feeling of security.

 

[BrianLo]

I’m back from my truly (as @WDW1974 would say) faux 1% vacation with my final thoughts on the ugly stepchild of Disney international parks. I made my last Disney pilgrimage to DLP (and WDS) in what was a crammed single day.

Spoiler alert, it's kind of depressing....



It was actually not my intention to visit WDS, but the 20th anniversary tickets were single day park-hoppers at a 20% discount, so I could not help myself from poking my head into that park to see what all-the-buzz (or lack thereof) was about. I went with friends, which I slightly wish I hadn’t if only because it doesn’t paint the best picture for theme parks versus amusement parks for those not familiar with Disney in general. We enjoyed ourselves, but the DLP was busy, busy, busy so it was not the best of circumstances all around.


Since my friends had really no idea what was going on and I was dragging them along for the ride, I gave them the offer of wanting to visit Disney’s worst park first, or their “Disneyland”. They shrugged and I steered them to WDS.


-I don’t know where to start with that park… it is somewhat surreal. I could never really shake the temporary feel of the whole thing. Sort of like it was a travelling Disney carnival set up in a farm field to give Europe a taste of some of the attractions Disney has overseas. There is no grand vista, there is no real sense of solid structures as you can walk 360 around many facades to reveal the fake steel backsides. It’s been a few days and I only just realized how the park was divided when trying to make sense of the layout. I suppose one “side” is dedicated to cinema and the other to animation, and that is about all there is to it.


-I cannot believe how tiny the park is, I’m pretty sure it is possible to traverse every single guest pathway in about 5 minutes, you could do a 60 second running tour of the entire park!


-Who thought it was a good idea to bottleneck the park entrance through a sound stage? Once you’ve walked through a crappy and tiny shopping complex, you are in the park. It is very anticlimactic to say the least.


-Toy Story play land somehow manages to work in HKDL, but I don’t feel it here. Perhaps it is the sense that I’m in a farm field the entire time as opposed to the grasses they’ve grown in HKDL. However, it might be the most cohesively themed part of that park, so that really says something about WDS, doesn’t it?


-Crushes coaster commanded a 120+ wait, so that was a pass. It might or might not be a quality attraction, but like everything at WDS it isn’t much to look at.


-Radiator Springs whatever it was just somehow feels depressing after having been to DCA.


-Tower of Terror and Rocking Rollercoaster are both fine attractions, I actually liked the layout of RRC better than DHS. Of course the TOT is the Disneyland version, which is the “worst” of the lot (compared to WDW and TDS) – but it’s still a really great attraction nonetheless.


-Then of course there was the Backlot tour, which was pretty bad. The narration feel flat in its humor and none of the movie props they had were relevant what so ever. I don’t think I’ve even heard of Dinotopia. If I wasn’t yet convinced of the temporary carnival feel of the park, the backlot tour convinced me of that. It amount to some props strewn on overgrown grass as we drove from one end of the park (to reach Catastrophe canyon) then another long drive to reach the other London area filled with a dragon I guess.


-We left the studios in a hurry and only crawled back later for some air conditioning to watch Cinemagic. I’d say it was cute, but the in theater effects were pretty lackluster. I wouldn’t watch it again though.


-I never actually got close to the Aladdin flying carpets, only looked at it from a distance. Perhaps I was protecting myself from the horror…


-I am excited for Ratatouille, progress is coming along well. Even if it fails to live up to any sort of expectations it will likely be the best area in the park by default.


-WDS needs more than a billion dollars, honestly, it really just needs a bulldozer…

 

[BrianLo]

Part 2 – DLP!


Everyone in this thread who thinks it’s ridiculous that a product can decline so badly in 10-15 years time (and thinks it can never happen to WDW) needs to visit DLP. Sure it seems ridiculous that WDW would be left to rot so poorly that Disney would want to sell off the parks piece-by-piece to the highest bidder… But, that's kind of in the looming future right now for Euro Disney.


It’s not all bad. DLP is amazingly designed; easily the best designed Castle Park. It’s fantasyland is stunning, the castle is amazing and discovery land is easily the best designed tomorrow land (although it too needs attention). It has a very fleshed out frontier land as well, although I might give the edge to Tokyo Disneyland as having the best. Its adventure land is equally stunning although really needs another attraction.


-Phantom Manor is the prototypical example of how all Disney attractions should be cloned (up there with TDS TOT). I might prefer Haunted Mansion slightly, but you can bring over great attractions and make them amazingly appealing to guests who visit multiple parks and a spirit all their own. Love it!


-Space Mountain Mission 2 is beautifully designed on the exterior, but the coaster is on the wretched side of things. It toes the line of being so rough on your neck that it isn’t fun anymore (and I am young and can take a beating). It needs to be re-tracked but I would not hold my breath on that one.


-Disney Dreams was fantastic. In my top if not my favourite Disney night show.


So where does it all start to go wrong?


-I’ve done some reading since visiting and people who visit the parks frequently have done a good job at highlighting the problems. From maintenance issues, food quality, service, operating hours and a general lack of any investment recently.


-Small world – I might give the edge to HKDL on this one. This is definitely the speediest moving Small world I’ve been on (on further reflection maybe it is the only time in memory I’ve been on a fully loaded boat). While wonderfully designed, it is in absolutely terrible shape. So many animatronics were frozen it was embarrassing. Ride ops were only loading every other boat so lines were artificially long all day long.


-Big Thunder was broken down a portion of the day then had massive lines. I’ve read they don’t bother running many of the trains. Storybook canal boats had chipped and dusty paint everywhere. Cobwebs on many of the focal points as well.


-Then there was our longest waits of the day, for food. I think it was upwards of 60 minutes for the quick serves. A kid fainted in line in front of us, which didn’t help anything. Had I known better we would have left the parks and gone to DTD.


-The bathrooms were pretty bad (although I was coming off of China where a lot of bathrooms are worse) and the guests were lousy. Half the guests are smoking and there is no semblance of protected smoking areas. That’s a greater problem in France in general, they will lose their minds if they ever enact more serious smoking regulations and other countries in Europe seem to finally be doing.


-Anyways, you get the gist. I had fun for sure, but it was a challenge to do so. The crowds weren’t great (worsened by ops), the park is amazing but on this terrible trajectory where all the magic is seeping away.


I’d return for at least two days in the future or just ignore WDS entirely, but certainly would avoid the summer crowds, but I’m afraid there might not be much left to return to at this rate.

Fortunately, I had a great time in HKDL/TDL/TDS (all of which are actually on positive trajectories still). If you need an international Disney fix, you know where to head instead!

 

[ParentsOf4]

I wonder what he defined as "Essential"? But hey, let's open up the borders, get rid of guns, get rid of jails and just assume everyone will do the 'right' things in society. We wouldn't ant to take away anyone's liberties, would we?

Please consider the context of his time when Ben Franklin wrote:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Franklin was living under what was viewed as an oppressive foreign government that was providing "safety" through an occupying army, a government that didn't even accept the concept of "liberty" that we take for granted today. This occupying army allegedly was there to "protect" colonialists from French incursions from Canada and Native Americans on what then was considered the frontier. The reality was that the British Crown was looking out for its own self interests. From Franklin's perspective, the British Army posed a greater threat to liberty than those it supposedly was trying to protect against.

To Franklin, all liberty was "essential" and "safety" was meaningless if the means of providing that "safety" imposed threats to what few rights the colonialists had.

As it applies today, that means that if our government feels that it's OK to spy on all of us to make us "safe", isn't that spying in and of itself a greater threat to our liberties guaranteed in our Constitution than a bunch of terrorists blowing things up.

How you somehow interpreted that to mean "open up the borders, get rid of guns, [and] get rid of jails" is beyond me.

 

[MattM]

I If businesses were more transparent with their intentions instead of creating things under the guise of improving their customer's experience, it might earn them much greater public trust.

The intention of a business first and foremost is always to make as much profit as its product will allow. That's not really a surprise, except to certain people on this board. Improvement of a customer's experience and profit seeking doesn't have to be conflicting goals.

 

[devoy1701]

The intention of a business first and foremost is always to make as much profit as its product will allow. That's not really a surprise, except to certain people on this board. Improvement of a customer's experience and profit seeking doesn't have to be conflicting goals.

Must we go round and round on the fact that the Disney company was founded on values that were not based on chasing the bottom line?

 

[DougK]

"When we consider a project, we really study it--not just the surface idea, but everything about it. And when we go into that new project, we believe in it all the way. We have confidence in our ability to do it right. And we work hard to do the best possible job. Oh, after I die this will no longer apply." - Walt Disney

Fixed that quote by adding the rest (bolded)for you.

 

[wm49rs]

The intention of a business first and foremost is always to make as much profit as its product will allow. That's not really a surprise, except to certain people on this board. Improvement of a customer's experience and profit seeking doesn't have to be conflicting goals.

Of course not; just look at what they did out in DCA....

 

[WildcatDen]

To Franklin, all liberty was "essential" and "safety" was meaningless if the means of providing that "safety" imposed threats to what few rights the colonialists had.
How you somehow interpreted that to mean "open up the borders, get rid of guns, [and] get rid of jails" is beyond me.

Nope. Good points, all. I suppose I added the extra's in the reply to you since that is where I was at, at the time. Still, to some conspiracy theorists on this site, it would seem that Disney and evidently the government are doing what they do strictly to get their jollies and not with any 'good' in mind. To those they simply seem to believe we can all just co-exist with all of of liberties intact. I wonder, if we moved all the aircraft out to Davis-Monthan, mothballed all tanks, closed down military bases here and abroad, and shuttered the 'war machine' how things would turn out. I am assuming we would hear a collective hallelujah from the left

Let's just say some comments on here must be made from rose colored glasses. Sure there are the pixie dust huffers but it also seem like there are a bunch of whiners. Some people's jobs are to work for the defense of this country and everyone in it, even those that complain about it day after day, after day. Reminds me of the court scene in "A Few Good Men." Paraphrasing, "you sleep under the blanket of protection the military provides and then you question the manner in which it is provided." If you think it is scary now. . .

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm a local, and I can't recall the last time that I saw a Disney commercial in Orlando, except for the Wild 3 Day Pass for Florida Residents (or whatever it is called).

In a state that probably has the WDW logo on it's state flag, I wouldn't doubt that they might not spend a whole bunch of advertising money that close by. Now Georgia, South and North Carolina (I do see them regularly but not often in NC) that might be targeted. Don't know, but I do know that you almost never see a Disney Ad up north until it starts to snow. There is no reason to go after them in the summer because almost all of the natives have massive allergies to heat and humidity. The mere thought of summer in the south thrusts them into shock. At least that's the way I was when I was a native there.