• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

Status
Not open for further replies.

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
This post/thread is located in a forum section labeled,"WDW Parks News, Rumors, and Current Events. Honestly folks, it's right near the top. Strictly speaking this means things that have happened, things that "could" happen, and things that are happening. As such, I have been participating in it on that basis. I also expect people to skim through posts and miss the tone, direction, or to focus on a small, out of context bit from some of the epic poems here.

Rest assured though, could and rumor belong together in this area. While some of NGEs features and partners have become know, much is largely unknown. I have been combining "could" with current. If I am mistaken and this is the wrong area or thread for that please let me know. I am nothing if not amiable.

Cheers,

*1023*

P.S. Actually I could go for a bender right now.....
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Yes, when we were growing up a land where you needed papers to travel and had to pass through checkpoints and were subject to "stop and frisk" - and where neighbors are encouraged to report on neighbors who seem suspicious (see something? say something!) - would sound a lot like the land we were told was the enemy back then.

And we'd never, ever be like them... right?
C'mon... there are plenty of legitimate criticisms without resorting to hyperbole. Behind the Iron Curtain, it wasn't "you can't take an airplane without a checkpoint", it was "you cannot travel without papers". Last I checked, you could drive from Maine to California and only stop at toll booths (and maybe not even that if you do it right). And what is the criticism of "See something, say something"? Should it be "See something, keep it to yourself"? Notice I didn't say anything about stop-and-frisk; that's just horrible. But until you go to the store and there's only vinegar on the shelves (like actually happened to my friend who grew up in communist Poland), let's not pretend that we're currently living in the new Soviet Union.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That is assuming we all know the MORE that Disney is seeking to gain from this. Do we know? Really?

No, we don't. And they are not being open about this at all. And when you start seeing all the connections between TWDC and the. Military industrial complex it has to give one pause since WDW has been great at social engineering since it opened.
 

nytimez

Well-Known Member
Not really... because that question would be referring to analysis of meaningful analytics - not meaningless possibilities with low probability.

I've yet to hear anyone tell me how Disney is going to harm me with these new data points. Like I said.. if they reduce my experience.. it hurts them not me. I don't have to goto Disney.

I guess you're just more trusting than I am. Or perhaps more confident in your abilities to perceive every possible outcome.

I'm quite certain that they can do more with this data then I could ever imagine, and that's why I'm concerned.

((But, mostly, more than anything else, I hate this because I hate planning - and I do not want to plan my trips in advance and do not want to have a lesser trip because I failed to plan in advance.))

C'mon... there are plenty of legitimate criticisms without resorting to hyperbole. Behind the Iron Curtain, it wasn't "you can't take an airplane without a checkpoint", it was "you cannot travel without papers". Last I checked, you could drive from Maine to California and only stop at toll booths (and maybe not even that if you do it right). And what is the criticism of "See something, say something"? Should it be "See something, keep it to yourself"? Notice I didn't say anything about stop-and-frisk; that's just horrible. But until you go to the store and there's only vinegar on the shelves (like actually happened to my friend who grew up in communist Poland), let's not pretend that we're currently living in the new Soviet Union.

True. In the Soviet Union, at least people knew and understood that they weren't free.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
But with all the 'enhanced' queues, aren't the guests that have the privilege of more MAGICal time spent in standby getting a more 'enhanced' experience than those guests, while they may have a 10:30 Space Mountain 'experience' reserved, don't get to play the Atari 2600 games in line :eek:

I wonder if Mr. Markey or one of his staffers reads this....

I am sure someone here has the time to contact his office with select info.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Well, what do YOU think the reaction would be if it got out in the media that Disney was in fact working/collaborating with the CIA/NSA/name your own agency on tracking/stalking technology and broader applications than simply planning a MAGICal WDW vacation?

Because I think it would be devastating to Disney because most people aren't happy with what the government's been up to to start with.
Here's a different angle to consider: when the NSA/CIA decides to stalk us, the system is accessed by relatively few people who have conflated said program with their sense of patriotism and duty (as right or wrong as that may be). There are a small number of people who have strong motivation to keep the entire program under wraps. It takes a whistleblower who is likely putting a premature end to a lifetime of military and/or government service in order to reveal a secret.

At WDW, this system will supposedly be accessed by a large group of minimum wage workers who have relatively little loyalty to the program's orchestrator. A whistleblower here would be ending a two year "career" possibly or their summer job. In the age of social media and with literally tens of thousands of cast members, can Disney keep a "domestic surveillance" program like this a secret?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think Disney needs more transparency about what data theyre capturing, why theyre doing it for why there suddenly partnering with a CIA contractor.

These are questions that need to be asked because Disney - for good or for bad - they've reached a level of public trust in our society and as a society, we dont expect that trust to be violated.

Isn't that public trust the key to why Disney is perfect to test just how far people can be controlled? What other company could possibly try something like this and not be subject to unceasing bad publicity and questioning? Disney would never harm us, right?
 

MattM

Well-Known Member
could... could... could... could..

Could is not really all that interesting without considering the probability and desire for them.

I COULD get hit by a meteor tomorrow...
I COULD tell my boss off...
I COULD go on a full on bender and wake up in a ditch...

All entirely possible - but none are interesting relevations without taking into account the pprobabilityof those scenarios or my desire for them to happen.

So like I said before... dreaming up all kinds of scenarios that have no meaning to anyone is entirely possible.. but unlikely because it provides no value or a diminishing value to someone.

When you have big data to analyze.. you can cut it a gazillion different ways and pull out all kinds of stupid meaningless facts. But besides when you are bored... you focus on the analysis and facts that actually provide you some value.
Without "could," this thread would be less than 5 pages.

And it's arguable whether it deserves that, once you back out the paranoia and emotion.
 
Last edited:

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
As a clarification, there will be FP+ available same day......just so long as they don't "sell out" in advance. It will be a first come first serve situation, with no FP held back for day guests.

So if you arrive at Epcot and find all the Soarin FP were booked weeks ago, or if you want to take your toddler on Dumbo and find that the only available time is 10:30pm...you are just SOL. Welcome to Standby City, or pick up a nice FP for Nemo or Tiki Room. (If you can get one...)

Yes, that's selling point of MM+. More FPs than ever before. But that's because Disney is adding it to virtually everything including parade viewing and meet and greets. Getting FP for anything truly worthwhile is another matter, but for the Aladdin spinner or Fantasmic or meeting Daisy at EPCOT, those may well be available day of.
 

MattM

Well-Known Member
Isn't that public trust the key to why Disney is perfect to test just how far people can be controlled? What other company could possibly try something like this and not be subject to unceasing bad publicity and questioning? Disney would never harm us, right?
I was going to say you've really gone of the deep end, but I think that really happened 2 or 3 "SNOTs" ago.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
why do we think Disney is keeping this a secret?

Are there other programs and projects where Disney normally advertises all the vendors involved? Does Disney advertise all the vendors that were used to construct new fantasyland??

C'mon, there is a huge difference between who is doing the plumbing for BoG and this. You want to criticize, find something legit.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
True. In the Soviet Union, at least people knew and understood that they weren't free.
I accept your concession.

Freedom is an elusive concept. Unfortunately, it takes constant care and vigilance to create and sustain something, but only a single moment to destroy. Freedom has always been fluid: ask the farmers from the Whiskey Rebellion, or the people who paid the first modern income tax to "support the Civil War effort", or ask Dred Scott... he thought he was a person. There are always problems. Some are fixed; some become the new normal. Hopefully, the information age will make it harder for a government to keep secrets from its people. I think it already has, to some extent.
 

MattM

Well-Known Member
C'mon, there is a huge difference between who is doing the plumbing for BoG and this. You want to criticize, find something legit.

What if the plumbers who built those beautiful new bathrooms are conspiring with the federal government to track people's dietery habits via stool samples?

Why isn't anyone asking that question?

Disney and their plumbing contractors are up to no good and clearly cannot be trusted. Thanfully UNI doesn't take stool samples....yet.
 

nytimez

Well-Known Member
I accept your concession.

Freedom is an elusive concept. Unfortunately, it takes constant care and vigilance to create and sustain something, but only a single moment to destroy. Freedom has always been fluid: ask the farmers from the Whiskey Rebellion, or the people who paid the first modern income tax to "support the Civil War effort", or ask Dred Scott... he thought he was a person. There are always problems. Some are fixed; some become the new normal. Hopefully, the information age will make it harder for a government to keep secrets from its people. I think it already has, to some extent.

I think this is precisely why governments are trying more overtly than ever to keep control over their people.

My concern I think is that most people probably don't realize as you do how elusive freedom is. Many may not even realize how much of it they've already lost.
 

Mr.Skunkape

Well-Known Member
Isn't that public trust the key to why Disney is perfect to test just how far people can be controlled? What other company could possibly try something like this and not be subject to unceasing bad publicity and questioning? Disney would never harm us, right?

I could see the magic band idea being picked up by the NFL,NBA,NHL and MLB for season ticket holders as way to collect data across the entire USA and part of Canada. They could then track a fan and then sell off the fans buying history to all the venders that the fan made purchases from while attending the game. Sports nuts will not care about some band they have to wear as long as they get a seat at the game.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
C'mon, there is a huge difference between who is doing the plumbing for BoG and this. You want to criticize, find something legit.

No, that makes the inference even more absurd. If Disney doesn't publicize vendors for trivial things.. you think they would publicize a vendor in some sensitive area? The point is Disney doesn't publicize it's partners, contractors, or subs at all... so the fact they haven't here is no sign of hiding anything. It's business as usual.

To stir things up like they are HIDING this as Dave did.. is just stroking.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Isn't that public trust the key to why Disney is perfect to test just how far people can be controlled? What other company could possibly try something like this and not be subject to unceasing bad publicity and questioning? Disney would never harm us, right?
You know that I have said that I respect your opinions. However, in this case, I'm thinking that Walmart must have had a sale on Tinfoil hats and you sent one of your minions there (we all know that you wouldn't be caught dead in a Walmart) to buy up all available store stock.

Someone mentioned that, maybe it was you, if it were known that Disney did something like that, they would lose all credibility with the public, etc. That brings us back to motivation. I know that there are some, maybe many, in upper management that are dumber then a bucket of rocks, but they cannot all be. That would be a ticking time bomb for Disney. It could and would go off at anytime and destroy the company completely. And for what purpose? Just to have the ability to know where I was specifically at any given point in time at their theme parks. They do not have enough to gain to make this social experiment worthwhile. The downside of discovery is huge and discovery will happen and quickly. To many people would know how much there was to lose in this situation. Is what your saying possible?... Sure it is, anything is possible, but is it probable? That is the part that I find hard to understand and therefore believe.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Without "could," this thread would be less than 5 pages.

And it's arguable whether it deserves that, once you back out the paranoia and emotion.
And that is the problem. It seems that many here are losing sight of the fact that this is all "could" be and starting to think that it is an absolute. That creates panic and misleading fear and paranoia. None of us know, even our trusted insiders, exactly what Disney's motivation is. They have not been forthcoming with that information. If they tried now all that would be said by all of us is sure...it's all bull. Just trying to cover up. No one will know exactly what is gained or lost by this system until it is completely operational and operating in final mode. If at that time the could be's turn out to be the actual happening, all hell will break loose. I wouldn't want to be a Disney Executive at that time.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think people could try to twist a story to infer nefarious connections.. but it would fizzle fast in the public interest because without any substance about how the technology or data collected being used in evil ways the story is a tale of premature .

Is there a story to be told if we 'revealed' Disney used the same companies for it's optics that made SPY cameras or satelites? Or what about who made those high power lasers Disney uses? What if those came from companies funded to try to develop lethal military lasers. That doesn't mean Disney was looking to kill people with it's lasers.. or even that it's lasers are lethal.

If you are simply referring to hysteria drawn up by name dropping and name association.. I look down upon people that buy into that crap.

No one is trying to twist anything. Some of us are curious and see things that make us wonder what is really at play here. Companies are not forthcoming about anything today unless they are forced. Our government has pretty much given them free reign to act as they please, damn the consumer.

Disney is being as shadowy as it cane with this project and it isn't because they are afraid the competition is going to steal or ape it. I literally have heard tales o of Comcast execs laughing themselves silly over the way Disney is spending on this as its parks fall apart and grow ever staler.

So while I also don't like tales of premature , I also don,t like tales of forced sodomy that could have been prevented if folks just asked some questions and demanded answers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Top Bottom