maxairmike
Well-Known Member
You haven't made the connection? Now we know what they've been working on at Area 51 all this time, man!
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Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV
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You haven't made the connection? Now we know what they've been working on at Area 51 all this time, man!
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
As far as I can remember, Coast to Coast AM discussed conspiracy theories in general (I think), not JUST paranormal stuff like aliens and things. It has been a while since I listened to it though so I can't remember anything specific. As a child, my mom and I traveled a lot and often had to drive around the country late at night. We'd listen to the program on the radio often while on the road. It could be pretty spooky sometimes and was pretty entertaining when you're driving on a dark and desolate interstate with little traffic or lights around.
But I think the joke someone was trying to make was about conspiracy theories in general. And many more famous conspiracy theorists are often notorious for also telling stories about aliens as well as more down to earth stuff.
But I think the joke someone was trying to make was about conspiracy theories in general. And many more famous conspiracy theorists are often notorious for also telling stories about aliens as well as more down to earth stuff.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I dont think any of us have suggested a conspiracy or have some sort of far fetched theory. We're just pulling back the curtain on what Disney is doing. What we don't have is the WHY.
Conspiracy theories dont exist because of two reasons: One, govt/corporations arent that smart. They dont have their **** together that much. Two, there's no way anyone could keep a secret that long.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I know, I was just elaborating upon other things Coast to Coast has gone into in the past. Conspiracy theories are just that- theories (unfounded and generally mad theories). The posts made in this thread regarding the government and corporations are well known and factual, not theories at all.
The government and a lot of the people running it are most likely just as corrupt and evil as many conspiracy theories make them out to be (same for corporations), not difficult to believe as corruption in government and power has been a tradition since the beginning of time. The problem is that they're also usually as stupid to match their corruption, likely far too incompetent to pull off any of the elaborate crap conspiracy theorists try to convince people they do.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
If you listen to Coast to Coast AM, this stuff is exactly the type of topic they would love to discuss on the show. Not even for the "conspiracy theory" aspect (with Art Bell off the show, it has shifted away from paranormal and conspiracies being its main topic anyway), but just grasping the scope of what this technology can do and what it means to us.
RunnerEd
Well-Known Member
I completely concur. I was simply making the point that just because we use a piece of software in the military does not mean that it can not be a value add in the private sector.
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
It is not what I or even you think, maybe not even Spirit but it is what the suits at TWDC think it may bring. To that end, I am not sure they know yet, but when life gives you lemons. . .
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
Thought this may interest some. . .
The Washington Post
August 7, 2013
Walter Pincus
Ever heard of Raptor X, a specialized computer tool that when used with a privately developed plug-in called "Social Bubble" can display the geographic location of Twitter users and their posted Tweets? In addition, Raptor could potentially capture related commercial entities and even financial transactions.
The government created Raptor X. The Special Operations Command's National Capital Region (SOCOM NCR) organization, located here in the Washington area, used it to data-mine social media as part of the 2012 Project Quantum Leap experiments.
The project's purpose was to identify "strategies and techniques for exploiting open sources of information, particularly social media in support of a counter threat finance mission."
That's a quote from the draft of an unclassified NCR after-action report released Tuesday by Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists' Project on Government Secrecy.
The Washington Post
August 7, 2013
Walter Pincus
Ever heard of Raptor X, a specialized computer tool that when used with a privately developed plug-in called "Social Bubble" can display the geographic location of Twitter users and their posted Tweets? In addition, Raptor could potentially capture related commercial entities and even financial transactions.
The government created Raptor X. The Special Operations Command's National Capital Region (SOCOM NCR) organization, located here in the Washington area, used it to data-mine social media as part of the 2012 Project Quantum Leap experiments.
The project's purpose was to identify "strategies and techniques for exploiting open sources of information, particularly social media in support of a counter threat finance mission."
That's a quote from the draft of an unclassified NCR after-action report released Tuesday by Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists' Project on Government Secrecy.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Oh not at all. I understand what disney is trying to do (in part) - theyre trying to track crowd movements and see exactly what a crowd at a theme park does. Which is an amazing scientific experiment (just be honest about it).
Its just when they take it every piece of information and create a Palantir/PRISM style database of all of us and our personal information, well then... thats an issue.
Let me be clear. If you want to track me as an anonymous person who does jungle, pirates, buys and orange & a bottle of water, does mansion, mermaid, TTA, buys a pretzel and watches the fireworks - Thats fine and acceptable.
But when you create a database of my buying & spending habits and keep track of what David does, unique to my name and AP, I have a GIANT problem with that.
RunnerEd
Well-Known Member
You and me both, brother.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
Good times when I used to work in the middle of the night. It was always George Noory on the radio except for Classical Friday... the local NPR station plays (played?) classical music in the middle of the night.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
If anyone listens to the Mysterious Universe podcast, I think the tone is very similar in case you're wondering what Coast to Coast AM is.
HMF
Well-Known Member
Geez Disney, Either go back to the old logo full time or stop using it on current merchandise. It's like they are just toying with us.
1023
Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
Okay, fair reader. Prepare yourself mentally for another "wall of text". Engineers, grab your pencils and protractors. Disney Suited lurkers, gather the legal team. If you're new to the thread or skimming my first part of this story started on page 207 or post #4133 of this thread.
When we last left our heroine "Trudy", she and her family had just finished their "Arrival Processing". This simple encounter created several data points along the way. There are so many variables that could occur from here as far as heuristics go that we'll just follow one path with our family.
"Trudy" and her family walk to the resort's "magical motorcoach" location and wait for the bus (data point - bus 1). Their projected wait time is 8 minutes according to the "Magic Movers" LCD screen at the location and is backed up by the handy phone app in "Trudy's" hand. The adults choose to sit (data point - bench 1 & bench 1), while the kids bounce around the shaded area."Trudy" verifies the plan on her phone and the times for their FPPs at Hollywood Studios. (Data points for TSMM, TT, and MV3D were already know as was the park choice.)
Five minutes pass waiting and "Trudy" notices the projected time for the bus has not changed. She consults her app. The app identifies the bus is delayed but holds firm to the 8 minute projection. They continue to wait (data point - magic-interuptus 1) and finally the bus arrives. After boarding the bus nothing worth notice occurs until they reach Hollywood Studios.
Now the first set of choke points at the parks come into play. Our family will be ID'd and deemed safe by NGE (facial recognition, etc.)and security staff at the bag check station (data point - smuggler 0). Then, the family must navigate the invisible turnstile and provide a third biometric ID for NGE (data point - fingerprint 1 each).
Only now, has the real information provided so far start to really make it's impact.The family in entering the park has provided enough data to start to create a profile that can be tested all along the way. We can make assumptions based on data collected so far and any other crumb of information can refine the model. It will be crude at first but imagine a social scientist in every guests pocket.
As an example, "Trudy" is the decision maker and planner. She put the trip together using all the guest friendly tools. She handled check-in.Consulted her app, ( the holder of the map makes the plans) about the bus and opted not to use the car. This can even be extrapolated backward as her rental car (not just a sales loss but a data point in location) is still in the resort's parking lot. The car data alone shows that even if she valeted the car, the staff would not be required to retrieve it during her scheduled day at HS.That assumption changes staffing levels at the resort. It can be correlated with other similar demographic groups to assume staffing levels.
Further, we can almost pinpoint the families return to the resort with just a little more data collected over the next few hours and days. Their ADR is scheduled at Mama Melrose at 6pm and they have no reservations for Fantasmic (data point - night show 0). Their future planning on other days references parades and shows. They may return to the resort after dinner,Mama Melrose is run like clockwork (data point - dining time 60min),so they are out of dinner at 7:10pm. Now the rate of travel across the park after a day of NGE "observing" can be predicted. It should take them 25 minutes provided "Trudy's" wife doesn't stop for (data point - Merch 6). When they arrive at the "cattle cruiser" for their trip back to the resort, it will another 25 minute of wait plus ride. This means we should see them at their resort at 8:00pm.
This giant wall of text is only the second part of the first layer of NGE and the profile you will represent. These profiles will be used individually, on a family level, and on a demographic level. They will continually build on themselves, making behavior prediction and modification even more accurate. Seven days worth of your "pocket social scientist" is a ton of data. Now do that once a year, twice a year or more. You are now a product and it all happened on vacation.
I did have a whole day fully fleshed out for our family and yet I sensed a taxing of attention span and interest using my own heuristic algorithms. Layer 2 is coming....But probably tomorrow. I have to go weep at my loss of innocence. I'll be happy to entertain direct thoughts for how to torture "Trudy's" family in the coming layers.( I already have rain in their schedule.)
*1023*
P.S. All this data has been gathered for years in different forms and methods. It was just crudely put together. Even the surveys that they "randomly" approach people for were utilized. It has just never been put together in this fashion or instantaneously. Even the subtle crowd control goes unnoticed. *sigh*
When we last left our heroine "Trudy", she and her family had just finished their "Arrival Processing". This simple encounter created several data points along the way. There are so many variables that could occur from here as far as heuristics go that we'll just follow one path with our family.
"Trudy" and her family walk to the resort's "magical motorcoach" location and wait for the bus (data point - bus 1). Their projected wait time is 8 minutes according to the "Magic Movers" LCD screen at the location and is backed up by the handy phone app in "Trudy's" hand. The adults choose to sit (data point - bench 1 & bench 1), while the kids bounce around the shaded area."Trudy" verifies the plan on her phone and the times for their FPPs at Hollywood Studios. (Data points for TSMM, TT, and MV3D were already know as was the park choice.)
Five minutes pass waiting and "Trudy" notices the projected time for the bus has not changed. She consults her app. The app identifies the bus is delayed but holds firm to the 8 minute projection. They continue to wait (data point - magic-interuptus 1) and finally the bus arrives. After boarding the bus nothing worth notice occurs until they reach Hollywood Studios.
Now the first set of choke points at the parks come into play. Our family will be ID'd and deemed safe by NGE (facial recognition, etc.)and security staff at the bag check station (data point - smuggler 0). Then, the family must navigate the invisible turnstile and provide a third biometric ID for NGE (data point - fingerprint 1 each).
Only now, has the real information provided so far start to really make it's impact.The family in entering the park has provided enough data to start to create a profile that can be tested all along the way. We can make assumptions based on data collected so far and any other crumb of information can refine the model. It will be crude at first but imagine a social scientist in every guests pocket.
As an example, "Trudy" is the decision maker and planner. She put the trip together using all the guest friendly tools. She handled check-in.Consulted her app, ( the holder of the map makes the plans) about the bus and opted not to use the car. This can even be extrapolated backward as her rental car (not just a sales loss but a data point in location) is still in the resort's parking lot. The car data alone shows that even if she valeted the car, the staff would not be required to retrieve it during her scheduled day at HS.That assumption changes staffing levels at the resort. It can be correlated with other similar demographic groups to assume staffing levels.
Further, we can almost pinpoint the families return to the resort with just a little more data collected over the next few hours and days. Their ADR is scheduled at Mama Melrose at 6pm and they have no reservations for Fantasmic (data point - night show 0). Their future planning on other days references parades and shows. They may return to the resort after dinner,Mama Melrose is run like clockwork (data point - dining time 60min),so they are out of dinner at 7:10pm. Now the rate of travel across the park after a day of NGE "observing" can be predicted. It should take them 25 minutes provided "Trudy's" wife doesn't stop for (data point - Merch 6). When they arrive at the "cattle cruiser" for their trip back to the resort, it will another 25 minute of wait plus ride. This means we should see them at their resort at 8:00pm.
This giant wall of text is only the second part of the first layer of NGE and the profile you will represent. These profiles will be used individually, on a family level, and on a demographic level. They will continually build on themselves, making behavior prediction and modification even more accurate. Seven days worth of your "pocket social scientist" is a ton of data. Now do that once a year, twice a year or more. You are now a product and it all happened on vacation.
I did have a whole day fully fleshed out for our family and yet I sensed a taxing of attention span and interest using my own heuristic algorithms. Layer 2 is coming....But probably tomorrow. I have to go weep at my loss of innocence. I'll be happy to entertain direct thoughts for how to torture "Trudy's" family in the coming layers.( I already have rain in their schedule.)
*1023*
P.S. All this data has been gathered for years in different forms and methods. It was just crudely put together. Even the surveys that they "randomly" approach people for were utilized. It has just never been put together in this fashion or instantaneously. Even the subtle crowd control goes unnoticed. *sigh*
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flynnibus
Premium Member
While there is ton of theory and what COULD be done when you have all the data points... you have to remember motivation, value, and rate of return.
The company isn't going to bother computing things that it's not motivated to understand, or things that don't provide a value, or things that cost more to produce then the value they return.
The company isn't going to proactively send a bus specifically to pick up Trudy... so the company doesn't need to care about trying to predict HER SPECIFIC time. There is no need to analyze her as an individual...Her data and behaviors in this area get rolled up to larger statistical models because you arne't going to respond to her actions individually. Keeping track of individuals in that sense would be an example of 'could' - but no reason to do so. Her behaviors in this area would be used to model the 'crowd' and respond to the crowds needs.. not her individually. The point being.. the data effectively becomes used anonymously for these purposes. Her raw individual data is still there.. but the value of her data is to feed a larger model.
Could you compute how long each guest waited for buses in your example.. sure. But is generating a report of Trudy's bus history of value? Or is it more valuable to look at 'all guests at Trudy's resort that tried to go to the park in question at that time of day'. Trudy was a data point in that analysis.. but the fact it was Trudy.. and not Sandy... isn't really of value. It's that a guest matching Trudy's needs/behaviors was collected.
This is where people are going over the top... you can come up with all kinds of extreme cases that are moot.. because they basically result in analysis the company is unlikely to be interested in.
John
Well-Known Member
No offense Flynni.....you know I love ya brother, and God knows I am in no way informed enough to jump in this frey. But your assumption that Disney isn't interested in certain information is no more of an opinion as 1023's is it not? In my ever so humble opinion I think it will be some where in the middle of what Disney is mining. I think they would want some specific personal data....I think there are so many layers Disney can explore with this system. I think they would like to know how long Trudy waited for the bus. Why? How long will she wait before she goes and complains? What is her tolerance. I think every single data point illustrated has a value in some way. If you were going to have a program like this....why not use it to its fullest potential? Now I am not trying to disagree with you just asking a rhetorical question. Because in the end we really don't know the extent in which they will use the information gathered. As I said I trust you...you know I do. Question: In your opinion does this program bother you. I know you are the level headed one here and I appreciate your sensibilities. Do you have ANY concerns about the program? @flynnibus
1023
Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
I use a specific family to describe an individual experience. It is easier to follow someone people can identify with in the guise of a story to articulate the collection of data. While it is unlikely that individuals data collections will amount to much, (other than marketing to "Trudy's" wife after dinner because we have her buying pattern) it will be used to influence groups.
Additionally, I specified the assumptions I was making. None of them included sending a specific bus for "Trudy's" family. I also didn't say there weren't others at the bus stop but for the purpose of good narrative I should have. Opportunity missed. I did say that leaving their car behind was a data point. If 10 other familys on that bus do the same, it would influence staffing rates for the valets. (If not immediately which is unrealistic, over time based on demographics.) The accumulation of numbers (data) and predictive algorithms will be utilized in that way, much like a "just in time" model.
I was also only suggesting that the data could be used to predict "Trudy's" specific departure from the park, not that WDC would do that. And who knows better than WDW's management as to what is important. My point, through the telling of this narrative, is intended to show what is or could be collected. I also intend to show how it could be used. Finally, I'd like to show how it will most likely will be used. I have no more insight than you do into exactly how TWDC is going to utilize this.
There are also layers that I would like to describe other than the data mining focus that the system could,should, or will provide based on the available information.
*1023*
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Bike coaster. Early chatter isn't great.
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