Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[John]

I'm sure Disney's evil plan is to know how many times we all go to the bathroom inside our resort rooms... that way they can make more money off of us by selling us dole whip scented toilet paper in an electronic dispenser next to the toilet only activated by our RFID chips in our wristband

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Always appreciate intelligent back and forth.

 

[HMF]

I think the whole MM+ and band were announced way to early! This never should have been mentioned until it was ready to roll! So much confusion, so many questions and such!

Data mining is how companies do business now a days and is so common everywhere you go. Disney decided to jump on that band wagon. Yes people don't like it which I understand, but this is our future now with big businesses and it isn't going away anytime soon.

I don't see it as such a huge deal, I mean you drive your car, you are filmed, you walk down the street, you are filmed, you shop at a store, you are filmed, and so on and so on.

The patriot act took all our privacy away and we can blame our gov for that. Heck, they have been filming you at Disney for years as well! You can't even pick your nose without it being caught by some kind of tech!

All this talk of the bands and privacy is pointless because it isn't going away. If you don't like it thats ok, but all these arguments about it won't make it stop.

Welcome to America in 2013! The land of the not so free anymore!

 

[WDWDad13]

you're assuming what he is saying is accurate?

 

[danlb_2000]

you're assuming what he is saying is accurate?

I have not reason to believe he would lie about it.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I get what you're saying and I don't like to think of myself as an overreacting doomsday person. However, what I do know is that the capabilities of what Disney is setting up are waaaaay beyond anything I'm comfortable with. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig who finds out the hard way just how Disney intends to use/misuse their new toys. As a child I was one to stand to the side in the shadows watching what others did, see how it played out, then decide what I wanted to do. That's me. I'll watch to see how this plays out for others. Still, hard to accept the possibilities paired with lack of info. If Disney was more forthcoming maybe I'd feel differently. I definitely know what their intentions and interests are: my money. It's a matter of figuring out just how ruthlessly they'll pursue it.

If it helps the capabilities of what Disney is setting up are speculation. They are based on the thought that they have to be ready to put the shaft to their customers in order to pay for this new technology. Without the idea that they might be able to sell a working, acceptable legal and safe system to other like businesses it does indeed seem to be of concern. However, what you are thinking of as there capabilities are purely guess work. Disney has not said what they intend to do, it is reaction on this (and other) boards. Pure and simple. Even if they were sold on the idea that they had that capability, they can't even get the simplest part of it to work dependably, much less the complex angles that are being discussed here. I have had experience in retail as far back as 1972 and I can assure you, some form of looking at the behaviors of customers goes all the way back to then, just more primitive. Heck, even the old mom and pop stores knew your name, address, number of children, most frequent purchases, income and a host of habits. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[Goofyernmost]

@ParentsOf4 has a good point. The resistance other industries have displayed towards transparency or releasing of information is vital to understanding what Disney is attempting. It doesnt matter if you wait till the system is up and running before you judge it. It will probly be too late by then. I fully understand your point of trying to not choose sides but if history teaches us anything (which it should) it is obvious that they have a much larger agenda at hand and it is far from anything to do with enhancing guest experience. They say all the tests have gone great and there are no problems. We know that is a lie. Same thing other industries have done when concern is raised. Tobacco corps. lied and said there were no problems when there truly were. Other industries lied and said everything was great and the people who are concerned are nut jobs. It is quite simply the LACK of information they release that is troubling. It seriously feels that Disney has just become corrupt at the higher levels. Walt himself was very hands on with every detail while building Disneyland and was in the park all the time, and he was the Top Dog of the company! The execs in charge of the parks now hardly ever step foot in them. You can spot their ignorance when you watch crap like Ultimate Walt Disney World or any of the other documentaries. The structure of the company is far removed from what it once was.

After the investment, if it is true, that is stated that has been made, it is already to late. They are going to go ahead with whatever fragment of the plans that they can and then comes your choice. Do you accept it as it is or do you tell them to place it where the sun don't shine and find another obsession. That's what I'm waiting to find out before I cancel my plans and sell my tickets on e-bay. When I know what it does and how it affects me personally, then I will make that decision. Until then I have nothing to decide.

 

[Clever Name]

I can assure you that without a single doubt, you have all ready been subjected to a similar tracking system in your own community. There are many such tracking and surveillance systems used in retail stores (such as Target and all of the others). They use Wi-Fi, cell phone tracking, optical trackers and other methods to watch you in their retail stores.

First, let me make it clear that these systems have nothing to do with the store loss prevention program (i.e. catching shoplifters). The data collected by these systems is sent by satellite dish directly to company HQ for evaluation. These systems watch you to determine your shopping habits and your likes and dislikes. If you spend a lot of time looking at the Hershey candy display, then Hershey gets information about your shopping habits and if they have your ID in their data base, you may get a coupon in the mail (or email).

One use of the data is to make sure enough cash registers are open so people don't get angry and leave the store before they make their purchase.

I've attached a link to Brickstream. They are one of the players in customer tracking and surveillance. WDW is developing their own system. http://www.brickstream.com/

 

[WDWDad13]

I have not reason to believe he would lie about it.

I'm not saying anyone is lying about it. I'm saying what he was told might not be all the facts or interpreted correctly..isn't that possible? Or do you believe everything someone tells you?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Please consider some of my earlier posts on this thread from this weekend explaining Disney’s possible plans and how it adversely impacts you, the consumer. Effectively, Disney wants to collect and cross-reference a ton of information about you, including financial and behavioral information, to identify your “buyer’s reserve price” and make sure you are charged exactly that.

Unless you are a student of business or deal with auctions on a regular basis, you might be unfamiliar with the concept of a “reserve price”. In essence, a “seller’s reserve price” is the minimum a seller would be willing to sell an item for. If you’ve ever bid on eBay, you might have seen this as a “reserve price”. Less familiar is the idea of a “buyer’s reserve price”; the most a buyer would be willing to pay for something.

Consider the following auction example.

I’m selling an art painting worth millions. I know there are several bidders in the room interested but I don’t know how much they’d be willing to spend. In this case, the painting would go for only one bid above what the second highest bidder (called the underbidder) would be willing to pay. To many, the winning bid could be reasonably considered “fair market value”.

Now let’s say I am the seller and through a common acquaintance, I was able to find out what the high bidder’s reserve price was. I could then plant someone in the auction room and make sure they forced the bid up to that buyer’s reserve price. Great for me, the seller. Very bad for the buyer.

By collecting vast amounts of financial and behavioral data, Disney is trying to determine your buyer’s reserve price. Using a simplistic example, if they determined you were willing to pay $120 for a one-day ticket but everyone else was willing to pay only $100, they could raise ticket prices to $120 and then offer everyone except you a $20 off coupon.

What we’ve seen on these threads is a tendency for Big Business advocates to view this as “good”; the free marketplace in action.

I tend to view this as an unfair business practice, like knowing the buyer’s reserve price in the auction example I described above.

If Disney wants to find out my buyer’s reserve price, then perhaps they should disclose their seller’s reserve price. What’s the minimum they would be willing to sell me a ticket for?

Somehow, I don’t think they would be willing to do that.

I know about sellers reserve price, I have both bought and sold many things at auctions. However, the absolute ruling part of that is that I don't have to pay the reserve price if I don't want to. I won't get the item but in that process I have made a judgement that the price was not worth it to me. Until the bidding starts no one really knows what I am willing to pay for it. And they never will until I stop bidding.Then they absolutely know what my limit was for that particular item at the time I was looking at it. I also know that they very seldom say what the reserve is until it has been passed. They might tell you that it didn't reach reserve and then it is taken off the block.

I might be willing to pay $500.00 per night this week because I have a special reason to be there. They can decide that this is my point of willingness and in the future price me at that rate. However, I might not be willing to pay that much the next time around and I will always be looking for a better deal and at that point I may stop bidding sooner. There is no guarantee that what they determined was my high point will remain there. Result: they lose business and revenue. It is a big gamble. My theory is that as much as we love like Disney there is a limit. It isn't a required experience for a happy life. It is only a diversion. It is negotiable at every turn, so if that is what they think they will accomplish there may be a lot less money for bonus's at the end of the year.

The best they can do is figure how I trend and offer that before everything else, but they have been doing that for years anyway. I have been going to Disney for 30 years and I have never gotten a special offer for onsite hotels. They know that I buy tickets and go there because I usually buy them on line from them. I haven't received pin numbers or offers, nothing, yet I have been there 42 times and purchased tickets, meals, snacks and some souvenirs. And have spent, in that time, over $30K in the process. Tell me they don't already know I am a lost cause and that is without NGE. I always, but once stay offsite. They don't know where I stay but they do know it hasn't been with them. Might I be enticed to stay if the deal is good enough and then make it habitual. I guess they will never know. Good going marketing, why to sell the place.

 

[njDizFan]

I just don't think some of these are valid arguements:

well there's nothing we can do about being tracked so oh well
everybody else is tracking me so it's ok
the government does it even more
if you don't like it then don't go
nobody will ever know all the facts

Listen, where's there's smoke there's fire. We have some internal documents, we have some insider people verifying, we know how Disney operates and we know it's costing billions. It's not okay with me

 

[danlb_2000]

I'm not saying anyone is lying about it. I'm saying what he was told might not be all the facts or interpreted correctly..isn't that possible? Or do you believe everything someone tells you?

He said that he actually had a little hands on time with the device, so what he is posting is what he directly observed. So since there is no other person involved he is either lying about what he saw or he telling the truth.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Monday Musings Part I (because I got lots to muse about, limited time and unreliable tech):

So, did ya hear there was a giant sinkhole in Clermont that swallowed a few buildings? Tragically, no Disney Lifestylers were eaten by the gaping hole (I know, coming out swinging and all).

I hope everyone enjoyed the D23 Expo (especially my good friend @Monty) since there's likely to only be one more. Yes, the one in Tokyo in two months.

Did anyone else hear the way kewl story of what happened when a Burbank-based schmuck (we can use that here, right?) dropped his iPhone into the Three Cabelleros ride in EPCOT?

So, you do realize that the first real test of MM+ that isn't so much a test is going about as well as that Titanic sailing we've all heard about? Do you know how many freebies, upgrades, gift cards etc are being handed off?

Speaking of NGE, do you know how many folks amongst the elderly are getting very frustrated at the park entrances and demanding their old non-RFID ticket media?

Back to D23, with apologies to @WDWFigment but any major Disney event that doesn't have Tom Amity Corless at it isn't major to me!

Would someone tell Merfie that he is going overboard with excitment over the Starbucks at EPCOT (while you're at it, could you do something about that lousy iced coffee I just had from Dunkin Donuts? Thanks).

To the lifestyler trying to sniff out info. about me from Joe Rohde this weekend: you are barking up a tree that could fall on you at anytime (I hear plenty, I see plenty and I know plenty even when I am on the other side of the nation).

It is always nice when someone dear sends you a Disney Gift Card in the mail, but was someone trying to send a message by making the card one with the Evil Queen from Snow White on it?

So, this MM+ has thought of everything with these kiosks. I mean, Disney is simply on top of anything that could possibly be needed. .... yeah, so long as you speak English. That won't be a problem at WDW, right? Everyone speaks English fluently, right?

Oh, they may have also forgotten about Group Sales too.

MORE to come ...

 

[PhotoDave219]

So, did ya hear there was a giant sinkhole in Clermont that swallowed a few buildings? Tragically, no Disney Lifestylers were eaten by the gaping hole (I know, coming out swinging and all).

Yes, I covered it.

For a Travel news story, I'm shocked that I didnt see any of those Disney Bloggers out there. No free Goodie Bag.

 

[Black Pearl]

Spirited Monday Musings Part I (because I got lots to muse about, limited time and unreliable tech):

Did anyone else hear the way kewl story of what happened when a Burbank-based schmuck (we can use that here, right?) dropped his iPhone into the Three Cabelleros ride in EPCOT?

Speaking of NGE, do you know how many folks amongst the elderly are getting very frustrated at the park entrances and demanding their old non-RFID ticket media?

Curious what the iPhone story is.

Also, I definitely saw that on the elderly, or really anyone that isn't into tech/new stuff/planning.

Your bit on the homemade card reminded me of when I worked at the mouse house and was given handmade gifts occasionally. Kept most of them somewhere..

 

[WDW1974]

Monday Musings continued:

Can I be any clearer in saying that Star Wars projects are coming to the Studios makeover and that this project has moved to the front of the WDW interactive queue of projects per Burbank (i.e. Iger)?

Do you think the average number of mentally ill people in Anaheim city limits went up or down when D23 ended?

I'm stating to hear rumblings that everyone in Anaheim isn't enamored with Prez Michael 'Not Yeti' Colglazier already. Gee, that didn't take very long.

Wondering how the planned DCL growth may be also playing a factor with the incredible slowness of projects moving in FL.

So, I heard @Lee was dissing Figgy and the Dreamfinder (that is fine if you're talking about creepy old Ron Schneider) over on another thread. I am going to give Mrs. Lee the keys to the gun cabinet if I hear talk like that again.

How can folks be talking about Halloween events already? Does August not count as summer any longer (sadly, it really never has in FL)?

I will take back everything bad I have said about Disney social media whores (this week) if someone can produce proof that one of them asked a real question to an exec or Imagineer during the Droolfest23.

Speaking of Lifestylers,has one EVER asked a question about what Disney intends to do with the hazard that used to be known as River Country?

So, how many of the top lifestylers have eBay accounts and are actively selling merchandise they just picked up this weekend?

You did hear that during top secret meetings this weekend that Disney forced UNI to give back theme park rights to the Marvel characters right?

Yes, just checking reading comprehension and levels of alertness.

So, $92 for a full priced ticket to Halloween Horror Nights in O-Town?!!? It seems like yesterday I was picking them up at my local AAA branch for $19.99.

Just a reminder to O-Town locals that Captain Jack's ceases operations after the weekend, effectively closing the last vestige of the WDW Shopping Village at LBV. Go. Enjoy. Steal 43 menus and place them on eBay.

Would you look at that, who says Disney resorts are too pricey? They are offering us Floridians rooms at the ASMu for $83 a night.

I suppose I should get back to chatting about the serious stuff involving NGE ...but it is as draining and depressing as August in paradise.

 

[HMF]

I am going to temporarily temper down the rhetoric and try to contextualize my thoughts on NGE just to clear some things up.
I don't necessarily believe that the Disney Company went into this thing with nefarious purposes. The Company is too fragmented to have any real consistent agenda and there were probably some good intentions here, That being said I don't think it is appropriate for any corporation to have access to the kind of data that NextGen entails because of the potential risks involved and in the wrong hands can be outright dangerous. What is even more concerning is the amount of money that is being poured into this thing that could be used for more constructive purposes plus it sets a dangerous precedent that could bring about long-term damage on a global-scale.

 

[WDW1974]

One other thing, not confirmed, someone sent me a message saying APers would be able to use the FP+ service seven days per month (again, one park per day). I think that is relatively fair ...which is about the highest praise I can give any aspect of this multi-billion boondoggle.

 

[WDW1974]

Who would have though that WDW as being used as a communist test bed. Your freaking me out 74. Lol

As someone who has lived in/worked in China multiple times, I much prefer their out in the open ways of spying. That cute little teenager or 20-year-old that would always smile and chat while she recorded my comings and goings. The elderly member of the team I was working pretending to not know any English when he was almost as fluent as I am. Being directed to certain meeting rooms at hotels because they had surveillance equipment set up.

I can deal with that. Hell, I had fun with it and they only heard or saw what we wanted them to.

Here, in the land of formerly free and the brave when it comes go bullying and dropping bombs from drones onto children, it just seems that everyone and everything is now corrupt and that we are supposed to accept that privacy as a concept no longer can exist. I do not. I will not.

Whether it's governmental or Big Business, there are certain rules they're going to have to follow. And it sure looks like people will have to force the issues.

 

[Captain Neo]

Bob Iger basically confirmed today that big star wars announcements are coming "In the next few months"

@WDW1974 where does Merf post now adays?

 

[SirLink]

As someone who has lived in/worked in China multiple times, I much prefer their out in the open ways of spying. That cute little teenager or 20-year-old that would always smile and chat while she recorded my comings and goings. The elderly member of the team I was working pretending to not know any English when he was almost as fluent as I am. Being directed to certain meeting rooms at hotels because they had surveillance equipment set up.

I can deal with that. Hell, I had fun with it and they only heard or saw what we wanted them to.

Here, in the land of formerly free and the brave when it comes go bullying and dropping bombs from drones onto children, it just seems that everyone and everything is now corrupt and that we are supposed to accept that privacy as a concept no longer can exist. I do not. I will not.

Whether it's governmental or Big Business, there are certain rules they're going to have to follow. And it sure looks like people will have to force the issues.

You should really read a novelization of Metal Gear Solid 2 ... actually you should have a private meeting with Hideo Kojima on American Liberty.