Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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Lee

Adventurer
So??? Personal information to me are things like health records, bank account information, etc NOT where I'm going to be at IN the Disney Resort area
Just a thought...
Say you eat at a nice Disney restaurant one evening. The waiter, who unbeknownst to either you or Disney is a thief, notices that you and your wife have a lot of nice jewelry on for the evening.

Using his trusty device, he determines that you all have FPs tomorrow at Soarin at 11am, followed by lunch at Coral Reef.

Now he knows what room you are staying in, and that it will be empty tomorrow from at least 11am-1pm.

Good time to burgle that room.

Maybe an extreme example...but possible.
 

Jane Doe

Well-Known Member
As a scenario

Disney decides to spend not only $2bn (or whatever the amount is) on NGE, it promises to match dollar for dollar the same amount on new attractions too. But you have a choice to make when you go through the gate, you can either wear the wristbands and enjoy all the convenience that it brings to your visit OR you can ride the new rides. Which would you choose?

For me a wristband benefits me in no way at all. None. Using a FP in it's present form isn't too much of an inconvenience. Pulling a few dollars out of my pocket for an ice cream isn't particularly difficult and using a credit card for bigger purchases adds around thirty seconds to a transaction, again no big deal. The biggest wait at the gate I encounter is having my bag checked and not pushing my ticket into the slot and retrieving it. As far as hotel advantages go I'm like the majority of people who disembark at MCO, I stay offsite in a superior hotel for less money. So the money spent on this project benefits no-one who enters the park as a regular paying guest. People want attractions that are new, well maintained and running, no-one is travelling from whichever corner of the globe they reside in to try out a revolutionary new way of paying, they want a top rate theme park experience and nothing else.

My next trip over to Orlando is either January '14 or '15 and I'm looking forward greatly to going back to Universal. I once missed out Universal altogether on one of our trips as there was nothing new added and it was the same old park which was dating horribly, but now it's different, they're giving people what they want and they are giving it to them in abundance. If I go in 2014 I'll have Springfield and Transformers and if I wait twelve months later I'll have the Gringotts coaster and the Hogwarts Express too. In the same time frame WDW will have added the Mine Train and nothing else and that is why the entire WDW experience could well be cut out altogether, for the cost of our WDW passes we could have a week on a RCI cruise out of Port Canaveral and tag on a few days at Universal, Legoland and Seaworld to complete our 14 days, and all of that done with a lot less planning.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
Just a thought...
Say you eat at a nice Disney restaurant one evening. The waiter, who unbeknownst to either you or Disney is a thief, notices that you and your wife have a lot of nice jewelry on for the evening.

Using his trusty device, he determines that you all have FPs tomorrow at Soarin at 11am, followed by lunch at Coral Reef.

Now he knows what room you are staying in, and that it will be empty tomorrow from at least 11am-1pm.

Good time to burgle that room.

Maybe an extreme example...but possible.


lord jesus we're stretching hard now lol

if I was a thief that worked for Disney and had access to rooms... my best bet is to look in ANY of them during the day when people are at the parks, the pools, etc.

also, they know our dining reservations now, without NextGen
 

SJFPKT

Active Member
facial recognition? why would Disney do facial recognition when they could already track us by RFID? besides that is MUCH better (and cheaper) technology than facial recognition software which wouldn't be near as accurate as RFID

I think some of this NextGen news/info is starting to be...well...exaggerated these days especially by those who don't like it. Kinda like that high school rumor that kept being told over and over again by your friends that was totally different than the original story by the time it got to you. lol

I am just guessing based on these two comments:

A lot of resources have been directed at overcoming line-of-sight deficiencies

tracking in part by marrying vision systems with depth sensors. “Characterizing” the image of each individual within a given setting to provide seamless monitoring from outdoor to indoor environs and back is heavily referenced.


We all know that they use Facial Recognition, so it isn't to far fetched to think this. Like I said, I am just guessing here. I am not one that is against this, yet. I am just wanting to know what all they are going to be using.

EDIT: To my knowledge RFID doesn't work on line of sight principles, it works on proximity much like a wifi or cellular network on a smaller scale. Therefore they would have no reason to overcome line of sight with RFID
 
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Jane Doe

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Springfield, does anyone remember Lyle Lanley from Marge Vs The Monorail episode?

"The name's Lanley. Lyle Lanley. And I come before you good people tonight at the Disney Corporation with an idea. Probably the greatest... Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a Universal idea"

"Now wait just a minute! We're twice as smart as the board of Universal, Just tell us your idea and we'll vote for it!"
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
See.....here lies the problem. You don't mind them tracking you back to the resort when you decide to take a nap. But you do realize this is just the beginning. Its done in baby steps. By the time you say......whoooooa hold on there......you can track me in the parks but you never said anything about inside my resort room....is my scenario extreme? Five years ago if I would have said that they were going to have you make ride reservations 60 days out you would have said.....I was crazy.

This is a slippery slope. You have nothing to hide? That's not the point. This program and ones like the government (drones) implements is not about catching the bad guy. As mentioned you don't need a billion dollar system to catch shop lifters.

As I said I am going in January and I am bucking the system. I want to see exactly what "opting out" will mean.
I will pay cash for everything. I want to see if Disney deems me a drain on their precious resort. I am the exact childless 45+ demo that was referred to. Guess what? If Disney dosnt want me....there are lots of other vacation destinations that would love to have me.


Slippery slope. That's it. I tire of the "I have nothing to hide" sentiment because that's what leads to this slippery slope turning into an avalanche. What too many people here in the States seem to always forget is that the Constitution has many guarantees for our citizens with regard to our government (Yet there are all so many legal loopholes that now run right through them....) and many of these guarantees don't apply to private businesses. Businesses can spy on their employees, fire them for political party bumper stickers, you name it. Your internal IM's, emails, etc., at work are being observed, read, etc. by many, many businesses. Most major corporations are major Orwellian institutions as it is. When my business lets our customers know that we don't sell, barter, etc., any personal data, whatsoever, the response is usually pure shock by most today. I've had companies tell us that we are fools for not monetizing the data that we have, but I'm not bring our operation down to the gutter that most have sunk into today.

From private companies to government, our most sensitive information is accessible by millions upon millions of citizens in both the States and the many countries where work is outsourced to. It doesn't matter? Bull, it does. Identify fraud, theft, etc., many of these things happen because of crooked people on the inside being able to access all too much information.

At what point does all of this data that a government or corporation possess send us to the road of the Minority Report of arrests for crimes that haven't been committed? It might seem funny, but there is a lot of seriousness here. We have a government that uses drones around the world and any male 14+ can be labeled as an actor on the battlefield or enemy combatant. Police forces in this country are clamoring for drone fleets, which are only really in a holding pattern as the FCC and FAA work on regulations. If people don't see that there is problem here, then they're wearing blinders.

Nothing to hide? That's not the point. Whenever a country starts taking what were guaranteed freedoms away in the name of safety and security, the endgame is never good historically for its people or country. This isn't a liberal or conservative issue, Democratic, Republican, Green, Alien, Purple, whatever party, it's an issue for all citizens of all stripes.

If it's bad enough that the government is snooping, I find it to be even far worse that a private corporation is using me in some over-the-top data mining orgy as @WDW1974 has basically described it. If the rubber wrist band acted as a ticket and cardless/cashless payment system, that's one thing and one thing that would be of good convenience for many, but it appears that the system is really more of a handcuff where a corporation knows you a heck of a lot better than your next door neighbor. What happens to the data? Will they sell the data? Are you eating too much junk food on your trip? Are they going to sell this to a healthcare insurer that will then in turn raise your premium for your unhealthy eating habits? (You know, this would give them hard evidence of your poor habits.) It's not that those scenarios will happen with certainty, but the slippery slope allows for things to snowball into what seems to be implausible to many.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
I think that is the true end game, both with our wonderful government (drop meaningless words like freedom, liberty and justice) and TWDC. I believe that WDW is being used as a sorta test kitchen to further condition people to accept a more restricted/controlled enviornment.
I have a good friend in a former USSR country who has now lived in the USA. He says its scary how the US is moving closer and closer to what he lived through in those USSR years- and our citizens don't even see it for themselves.
 

Jane Doe

Well-Known Member
lord jesus we're stretching hard now lol

if I was a thief that worked for Disney and had access to rooms... my best bet is to look in ANY of them during the day when people are at the parks, the pools, etc.

also, they know our dining reservations now, without NextGen

Maybe it's a stretch, but I can make a reservation for a restaurant in WDW for tonight, though it doesn't necessarily mean I'll be there. With NGE they know if you're actually in the restaurant or if you decided against dining and chose to return to your room.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's a stretch, but I can make a reservation for a restaurant in WDW for tonight, though it doesn't necessarily mean I'll be there. With NGE they know if you're actually in the restaurant or if you decided against dining and chose to return to your room.

and the fear there is?

they might also know from your Disney mobile app
 

scout68

Well-Known Member
lord jesus we're stretching hard now lol

if I was a thief that worked for Disney and had access to rooms... my best bet is to look in ANY of them during the day when people are at the parks, the pools, etc.

also, they know our dining reservations now, without NextGen


Not looking to pick a fight.....at all. But, as the facts of the project trickle in and the nuggets of details pile up it seems to me the "stretching in the debate is happening on your side (not to exclude the "lord jesus" mind you)
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
I have a good friend in a former USSR country who has now lived in the USA. He says its scary how the US is moving closer and closer to what he lived through in those USSR years- and our citizens don't even see it for themselves.

My country (especially the Eastern half of it) has a very black history of spying on its own people. It's a part of German history that really is not known that much outside of Germany it seems and I can only recommend to watch "The Life of Others" as an introduction to this.

I am NOT comparing Disney to the Stasi (nor am I saying that the US is like East Germany!) - I am just saying that privacy is an issue which ought to be taken very seriously. It is so difficult to imagine what happens if your privacy is gone, so incidents in history where that was really the case for a large part of the population can be helpful to see what privacy really means.
 

Sue_Vongello

Well-Known Member
@WDW1974

I am really curious about blowback from NGE information you put out here. Have you heard from any sources or have any people called you up anxiously wanting to know where and how and what?

Basically, I want to know if your info is striking a chord ...

Because I surely hope so.
 

Jane Doe

Well-Known Member
and the fear there is?

they might also know from your Disney mobile app

Well to put it another way I may be outside your house right now just about to break in, or I may be in a small town in Northern England. As it stands you have no way of knowing, however if I had a wristband on which you could track my movements you'd know for certain where I was.

ps I'm in Northern England, don't rush home and don't call the police!
 

wishiwere@wdw

Well-Known Member
I think that is the true end game, both with our wonderful government (drop meaningless words like freedom, liberty and justice) and TWDC. I believe that WDW is being used as a sorta test kitchen to further condition people to accept a more restricted/controlled enviornment.
Unfortunately, due to the industry I work in, I've really had to keep to myself throughout this discussion (no, we aren't anonymous on the Internet lol) but this entire topic is truly fascinating to follow.

You bring up an interesting point here that I've had in the back of my mind all along. There is no way this is being done "just" for the Walt Disney Company. This kind of tech and money has to be a collaborative effort with other entities so they can then , as you put it, use WDW as a test kitchen.

This brings me to my question around the money being spent. Basically, I really can't believe that Disney is footing the entire bill for this. In fact, there absolutely has to be a way they plan to make a profit off of the experiment. I just feel it goes way beyond being able to data mine us as guests and is more in an entirely different realm. (Think airports, stadiums?? )

And for what it's worth, no matter how hard any one tries, nothing is ever secure. All we can do is mitigate the risk to the best of our ability. :)

Thank you for continuing to bring us this amazing information 74.
 

Pentacat

Well-Known Member
New types of biometric identification are cited, some are remarkable if achievable given their stealth nature. Meaning, you will have no notion that you are being ‘scanned and detected’ by this technology. As I've yet to receive confirmation this is actually operational, and it goes into the whole facial recognition discussion, I would rather leave it there for now.

Known contractors in the sector like Lumidigm and Safran's L-1 Identity Solutions appear to not have the capabilities Disney is requiring for NGE. IQT, through its partners and alliances, is doing work that overlaps if not mirrors many elements NGE.

Sounds like they have moved into Thermal Biometric Imaging/Thermal Signature Recognition. That makes a whole lot of sense given that theses systems are faster and more accurate than standard visual face recognition. The thermal systems also have a HUGE advantage in low light environments like say, darkened theme park attractions.

Sounds like a hybrid Visual/Thermal camera system + RFID tags means that they would have an insane amount of resolution in terms of locating an "object" er....I mean guest.
 

Cousin Huet

Well-Known Member
Let me just say that until I see how all this is going to impact my trips and experience I am not that concerned. I hate the intrusive nature of our government and businesses today, but it is not changing so I am just hoping that this is more about trying to sell me more crap and that I can avoid the negatives for the most part.....hoping.

Not that it makes it any better but shopping malls and retail companies have been doing this for a long time. Every survey we take gives them a lot of information in the name of getting "your feedback to better serve you." That is not the intention though and YES you are helping out the people at the store because they are nearl threatened to get people to take surveys, but the end game is INFO, not satisfaction. Anyone dealing with people knows that customer satisfaction is tied to 1) Do you have what they want. 2) Did they get a discount. If they did not get what they want it doesn't matter how great of service you gave, their unhappy. Disney seems to be going "all in" with it in order to manipulate and "harvest" the guests for their money and time, but similar tech has been in Simon Malls (at least) since the early 90s. They can tell your gender, race, age and all that with the tech. Some stores use it to see what areas people shop in the most in the store. It gets pretty intricate and I can only assume that in the retail world they are using a much lower cost alternative to what Disney will be using, so Disney should be able to greet you at breakfast with a line like....."Hello, Mr. Smith, how did those wings come out earlier?" lol

I really WISH this NGE crap had never come about and we had a billion dollar + new Tomorrowland or something instead, but I at least hope that since we are stuck with it that Disney makes a killing off of all the extra stuff they are selling to Clark Griswald and family so that we get actually get some great improvements going forward from whoever takes over next. Change at the top is good because they always want to leave their mark (Iger=DCA). If I thought they would scrap it I would hope for failure and a hostile firing and takeover......but I'm too worried they will sink another Billion + into it to "Fix it" instead.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
Not looking to pick a fight.....at all. But, as the facts of the project trickle in and the nuggets of details pile up it seems to me the "stretching in the debate is happening on your side (not to exclude the "lord jesus" mind you)

the first problem is no one around here has all the "facts" on this program...including me
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
True enough ...THis also isn't 1974 or 1984. Go spend a few hours in front of the casting center and watch what goes in looking for employment. No, it isn't as bad as say it was in 2005 where anyone who walked in (even if they had just been released from jail an hour before) was hired because Disney needed bodies who would work for minimum wage. But the type of person who can bet hired by WDW today is very scary, beyond the happy college kids and seniors.

Tidbit of useless Disney knowledge. The Casting Center is actually a ghost town and has been for a while. Disney tries to do everything it can to push people to apply online. Casting was hit hard by the last round of layoffs a few years ago. It would not surprise me if space there has already been repurposed for other departments. Imagineering and any creative departments not included!

You are absolutely correct. Disney cannot come close to filling all of the positions it has open. Part of the reason is low benefits. Kind of wish Cast Members would jump on the fast food Strike train. The union is worthless at this point unless you are trying to keep your job because you hit the limit on the attendance matrix. The word has gotten out about the college program and some universities no longer will honor college credit. There is a reason why Disney is and has expanded its international program. Participants are not aware of what they are getting into.
 
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