ChrisFL
Premium Member
Does said message board make use of emoticons that look like this:?
Yes, among many others....its pixie duster central.
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Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
- Status
Yes, among many others....its pixie duster central.
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I had a few drinks the other night when I said that. Of course cars 2 is the summer movie of all time.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
For many years I wondered why anyone would need to pay a touring plan organization for their services. It's now becoming clearer to me.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
There is no rush to "fix" WDW for the same reason governments operate with ruinous deficit spending: because fixing the problem doesn't benefit those in charge.
Consider Iger's position. He's already invested TWDC's capital heavily in Shanghai Disneyland, DCA, 2 cruise ships, New Fantasyland, and MyMagic+. Plus he's got Avatarland ramping up soon. In his mind, he's pumped a ton of cash into Parks & Resorts. He is under pressure from Wall Street to cut back on expenditures. Spending even more today doesn't keep him in the good graces of Wall Street. It's easier to paper over today's problems with higher prices and quality cuts, kicking the can down the road. He'll make a nice announcement about all the whiz-bangs going into DHS so he gets the credit but will be careful to make sure that the big spending doesn't start in earnest until after he leaves. Iger will be gone in 3 years. At that time, it becomes someone else's problem.
For anyone who loves WDW, the problem today is that it looks like Iger made a series of really questionable (OK, bad) decisions affecting WDW. (When it comes to CEO, I'm a big believer in Harry Truman's "the buck stops here" attitude. Ultimately, Iger's calling all the big shots. Investing hundreds of millions is a big decision even at a company the size of TWDC.)
Consider Iger's major mistakes:
- Losing the Harry Potter IP to Universal - Disney had the inside track on this and, for several reasons, let the deal slip away. If we all pretend for a moment that WWOHP as it exists today was at WDW, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The saddest part (from Iger's perspective) is that his bad decision let the competition back into the market. And for cheap. For perhaps no single better reason, WDW theme parks are paying the price for Iger's bad call on this.
- Heavily investing in NextGen - Iger really believed this was going to be a magical elixir that would cure all of WDW's woes. As of follower of Blue Ocean Strategy and having seen the poor financial investments in theme parks made by Eisner in his last few years, the inexperienced (when it comes to theme parks) Iger felt that a different approach was needed. On so many levels, the NextGen dog-and-pony show was exactly was he was looking for.
- Moving forward with New Fantasyland - Iger sunk close to half-a-billion dollars into "fixing" WDW's most popular land at WDW's most popular park. All this has managed to do is steal attendance away from WDW's other theme parks, making a bad problem worse.
- Pursuing Avatarland - The jury's still out on this one; Avatarland could be a success. But Avatarland was Iger's kneejerk reaction to having his head pounded into the wall by the Wizzarding World of Harry Potter. It may have sounded great to Iger in 2011 but, seriously, who really talks about Avatar in 2013?
Iger gets paid the big money to make the big decision and, when it comes to Orlando, he's choked.
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NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
PM'ing a major project like Avatar is a full time... Like 60 hours a week job. add in Disney Springs...
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Is she is in charge of Avatar? For some reason, I thought that she was not the creative lead for DAK and instead was covering the other parks.
The March Hare
Member
136 pages and absolutely nothing of value, just off topic tangents, arguing about Uni (which is not better than WDW, for the record; have any of you actually been there!?), ranking Star Wars movies? Really disappointing. Usually enjoy '74 threads (regardless of whether or not I agree, just good convo), but this one was just pathetic.
Zweiland
Well-Known Member
By saying that Uni is not better than WDW, you are likely to just start another argument...
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
I was of the understanding that she was added specifically to please Cameron because of her Carsland Portfolio. Perhaps I am wrong about that.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Wow. You're just trolling for responses.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Did you read the part where '74 explained about his friend passing away of cancer? He's busy right now and he can't be occupied here, so yeah, things are going to be off topic when you don't have the supplier of information here for updates.
Oh, and no one is stating Uni being better than WDW as fact, but as their own opinion. Relax.
Just a quick thanks to all my friends here who have sent nice notes my way. Much appreciated.
I have something based on INTERNAL WDW Co docs that I wanted to get out and move the discussion back onto what Disney is doing in O-Town versus what UNI is doing. Naturally, it all relates to NGE (which has had Tom Staggs in town ... apparently, he had a heated discussion at the Grand Flo with another 'suit' who may well have been George, but that hasn't been confirmed yet and this stuff really isn.t quite as important to me right now as it normally would be).
Anyway, like many of us in the fan community (and those well outside of it but with a known interest), I've been on a Spirited search for any information on the massive commitment TWDC has made to the nebulous program we have come to know as "Disney's Next Generation Experience." And information I have found as Yoda (soon to be in a 3D spectacular!!!) would say.
It might conflict with what we've been led to believe, it might conflict with some insider information previously posted to this site (including my own) and it may well be that the 'final product' will be a patchwork of all of this combined with work no one is yet aware of.
I do want to reinforce that no one has been able to confirm the current expenditure for NGE. No one knows or will say. It might as well be a government program because you aren't going to find anyone, likely other than 3-4 people at the VERY top of Disney, who know the answer.
We Do know, from reliable sources and company releases, it exceeds $1.1 billion. Looking at the reconfiguring of certain budgets, the movement of monies, many folks believe the $2 billion mark was passed long ago now and the steady march toward $3 billion is inevitable. That's all probably accurate.
Now, we want Disney to invest in the parks, in tangible ways for the casual guest as well as us crazy fans. We want existing offerings maintained and new ones brought on line. Not just E-tickets, but the 'Disney' of Walt Disney World that was not so dated, not so stale, not so out of touch.
We are getting NGE. So, that's what I'm focusing my MAGICal time on right now.
Having said that,keep in mind, some of that NGE budget is going toward required improvements in both IT infrastructure and actual brick and mortar within the parks. No, not new attractions. The redos/renovations of queues, gift shops and window displays, food locations, doorways and door locks...and, yes, even MAGICal toilets (paging @TalkingHead) appear to have made their way into the NGE spend. Much has been speculated about this project, almost nothing has been confirmed beyond certain aspects of MM+ by Disney (mostly relating to FP+). and Disney, no doubt, prefers it that way.
Here's the problem: Disney is declaring publicly the opposite of what the aim/goal/mandate for NGE was and is.
Everything I've read, again from internal docs, about Disney's work on NGE is layered with terminology including data mining, machine learning, and advanced applications for all sorts of embedded systems. Those aren't my words. Those words come directly from NGE's master plan.Those are Disney's words.
Again, reread that.
In everything I have now reviewed, there's not merely an oppressive reliance on data but something more. There is, within the project, specific reference of the need to "overcome" line of sight deficiencies and the challenges of geolocation capture within large structures (i.e., anything from the Main Street's Emporium to EPCOT's Living with the Land biodomes).
ZigBee, in addition to everything else packed into those no-so-MAGICal-bands, is mentioned liberally. The absolute necessity for engineers to employ "mesh networks" and find "reliable methods to locate" parkgoers is emphasized. Whether this was accomplished isn't known, but - given the language - NGE relies heavily on this aspect.
A healthy portion of NGE references, unambiguously, the need to not just capture but exploit and warehouse data. (Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)
The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.
Now, limited as I may be in the technical aspects of some of this, and wanting as I might be to believe Disney has no interest in our specific behavior(s), some folks appear to be giving Disney a bit too much of that long ago squandered 'trust' as the project screams Big Data. And more.
There are entire coding 'departments' that appear to be focused on pulling stunningly specific data points from A BAND. No, not populations/patterns. From individuals. ID-based folios where minute-by-minute geolocation is coupled with all sorts of stuff. For example, from when you enter an attraction/building to when you exit...that's a given. But, that 'mesh' system designed for WDW seems intent on knowing exactly how your time was spent in that building.
And, of course, when you aren't actually 'hiding' in an attraction, shop or toilet stall. This stuff is referenced, folks. I guess, it appears, Disney wants to be on the forefront of this world without privacy thing. Understand, there is no knowing exactly what TWDC will be able to deliver. This is, however, what NGE was (is?) all about. Well, all of that and exploiting it for maximum profit - as the projects declares in the opening graf/outline of every piece of it I've been made privy to.
Looking at it, and some of the terminology (a fair amount, I admit, I do not have the required background to understand on a first or second read) that appears out of place in a for-profit company's planning and projects, I'm at a loss as to how this was ever designed to be a legit profit engine without the selling that data. From the start, I said that's what this was all about. I'm more convinced of that today that at any time since NGE began at Disney.
They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.
I have something based on INTERNAL WDW Co docs that I wanted to get out and move the discussion back onto what Disney is doing in O-Town versus what UNI is doing. Naturally, it all relates to NGE (which has had Tom Staggs in town ... apparently, he had a heated discussion at the Grand Flo with another 'suit' who may well have been George, but that hasn't been confirmed yet and this stuff really isn.t quite as important to me right now as it normally would be).
Anyway, like many of us in the fan community (and those well outside of it but with a known interest), I've been on a Spirited search for any information on the massive commitment TWDC has made to the nebulous program we have come to know as "Disney's Next Generation Experience." And information I have found as Yoda (soon to be in a 3D spectacular!!!) would say.
It might conflict with what we've been led to believe, it might conflict with some insider information previously posted to this site (including my own) and it may well be that the 'final product' will be a patchwork of all of this combined with work no one is yet aware of.
I do want to reinforce that no one has been able to confirm the current expenditure for NGE. No one knows or will say. It might as well be a government program because you aren't going to find anyone, likely other than 3-4 people at the VERY top of Disney, who know the answer.
We Do know, from reliable sources and company releases, it exceeds $1.1 billion. Looking at the reconfiguring of certain budgets, the movement of monies, many folks believe the $2 billion mark was passed long ago now and the steady march toward $3 billion is inevitable. That's all probably accurate.
Now, we want Disney to invest in the parks, in tangible ways for the casual guest as well as us crazy fans. We want existing offerings maintained and new ones brought on line. Not just E-tickets, but the 'Disney' of Walt Disney World that was not so dated, not so stale, not so out of touch.
We are getting NGE. So, that's what I'm focusing my MAGICal time on right now.
Having said that,keep in mind, some of that NGE budget is going toward required improvements in both IT infrastructure and actual brick and mortar within the parks. No, not new attractions. The redos/renovations of queues, gift shops and window displays, food locations, doorways and door locks...and, yes, even MAGICal toilets (paging @TalkingHead) appear to have made their way into the NGE spend. Much has been speculated about this project, almost nothing has been confirmed beyond certain aspects of MM+ by Disney (mostly relating to FP+). and Disney, no doubt, prefers it that way.
Here's the problem: Disney is declaring publicly the opposite of what the aim/goal/mandate for NGE was and is.
Everything I've read, again from internal docs, about Disney's work on NGE is layered with terminology including data mining, machine learning, and advanced applications for all sorts of embedded systems. Those aren't my words. Those words come directly from NGE's master plan.Those are Disney's words.
Again, reread that.
In everything I have now reviewed, there's not merely an oppressive reliance on data but something more. There is, within the project, specific reference of the need to "overcome" line of sight deficiencies and the challenges of geolocation capture within large structures (i.e., anything from the Main Street's Emporium to EPCOT's Living with the Land biodomes).
ZigBee, in addition to everything else packed into those no-so-MAGICal-bands, is mentioned liberally. The absolute necessity for engineers to employ "mesh networks" and find "reliable methods to locate" parkgoers is emphasized. Whether this was accomplished isn't known, but - given the language - NGE relies heavily on this aspect.
A healthy portion of NGE references, unambiguously, the need to not just capture but exploit and warehouse data. (Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)
The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.
Now, limited as I may be in the technical aspects of some of this, and wanting as I might be to believe Disney has no interest in our specific behavior(s), some folks appear to be giving Disney a bit too much of that long ago squandered 'trust' as the project screams Big Data. And more.
There are entire coding 'departments' that appear to be focused on pulling stunningly specific data points from A BAND. No, not populations/patterns. From individuals. ID-based folios where minute-by-minute geolocation is coupled with all sorts of stuff. For example, from when you enter an attraction/building to when you exit...that's a given. But, that 'mesh' system designed for WDW seems intent on knowing exactly how your time was spent in that building.
And, of course, when you aren't actually 'hiding' in an attraction, shop or toilet stall. This stuff is referenced, folks. I guess, it appears, Disney wants to be on the forefront of this world without privacy thing. Understand, there is no knowing exactly what TWDC will be able to deliver. This is, however, what NGE was (is?) all about. Well, all of that and exploiting it for maximum profit - as the projects declares in the opening graf/outline of every piece of it I've been made privy to.
Looking at it, and some of the terminology (a fair amount, I admit, I do not have the required background to understand on a first or second read) that appears out of place in a for-profit company's planning and projects, I'm at a loss as to how this was ever designed to be a legit profit engine without the selling that data. From the start, I said that's what this was all about. I'm more convinced of that today that at any time since NGE began at Disney.
They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.
The March Hare
Member
Definitely not trolling for responses. If anything, the whole thread should be deleted so there won't be any more responses to chit chat.
Thanks!
But I was able to finish something I started last weekend and just posted. I will also put it in the MM+ thread as I realize some folks won't find it here.
And, honestly, anyone expecting blueprint type info is coming to the wrong place. Even when I have that, I never place it out. I just tell folks what I can about it.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
You obviously did not read any of my posts.
nytimez
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update, Spirit, and hope you find some comfort - somewhere, somehow - after the loss of your friend.
I hit the "like" button on your post, but my actual response is anger (at the company). This seems to confirm some of our worst fears about the project... the fears too many have been too quick to dismiss.
I hit the "like" button on your post, but my actual response is anger (at the company). This seems to confirm some of our worst fears about the project... the fears too many have been too quick to dismiss.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Well you're not a moderator. We're discussing lots of larger, bigger picture issues.
For instance, its a firsthand look at the inner workings of Disney bureaucracy and how fast a rumored project can come to a halt. We've got good discussions on why this happens.
We've also had good discussions on market share and how Uni is cutting into Disney's audience and how Disney's inaction is allowing that to continue.
Plain and simple, we're all Disney fans here. We all want Disney to have better stewardship of the parks and reinvest more in the parks here in Orlando rather that sucking up to Wall Street. (That raises questions of CEO compensation and whether the CEO should be paid in stock.)
We all expect Disney to do better because we know what they're capable of.
71jason
Well-Known Member
No hyperbole, has to be one of the single biggest blunders in business history, on a par with New Coke. Allowed competition that was on the ropes to come back as a true contender for once, and ultimately revitalized other areas of competition (i.e. the I-Drive hotels).
I've wondered if this was a knee-jerk reaction to losing Potter. Early rumors had Universal in discussion with Cameron for an Avatar attraction to replace the aging T2:3D. We know Iger doesn't set foot in theme parks for fun, and I kind of doubt he goes to blockbuster tentpoles on a regular basis. Maybe he saw the box office numbers for Avatar, was like, "oh no, they're not getting that one too" ... and committed to an intellectual property with no real thought as to how to use it in the real world. Because this was definitely a film that made money but never really captured the zeitgeist the way a true blockbuster does, and it doesn't lend itself to a theme park land the way numerous other IPs do.
BTW, I'd pair New Fantasyland with the closing of Pleasure Island. Too strong a focus on one subset of guests--preteens, mostly girls at that. Freezes out the , the conventioneers, the honeymooners ...
tirian
Well-Known Member
Welcome back!
No wonder the cast trainings have focused so much on the warm and fuzzy feelings of a Magical Place Without Lines.
This is some serious data mining. I take back everything I said about how the data mining threat had been largely reduced. We were told it was, but clearly that was a lie.
WDW—the perfect place to gain information and sell it to third parties. They know your eating habits, purchases, travel patterns, and more.
No wonder the cast trainings have focused so much on the warm and fuzzy feelings of a Magical Place Without Lines.
This is some serious data mining. I take back everything I said about how the data mining threat had been largely reduced. We were told it was, but clearly that was a lie.
WDW—the perfect place to gain information and sell it to third parties. They know your eating habits, purchases, travel patterns, and more.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Your welcome, my friend! BTW, I'm sorry I haven't emailed you with my condolences... I figured you were swamped in emails, and I didn't want to swamp you with more. I'm sorry for your loss. Losing a friend is not something I'd want anyone to go through.
I saw your post, right after mine, which I thought was funny.
People here are so thirsty for information, but it's a little unrealistic to expect blueprint-type information. Glad you're back, though! Hope to see you in CA, soon.- Status