Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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nytimez

Well-Known Member
@WDW1974 most of what you were quoting and paraphrasing is what we've known all along. You're just now seeing the big scary terminology being elaborated in techicnical terms.

I'm a bit concerned tho how you admit to not understanding a good bit of it yet feel confident to stroke new fears.

The ideas of mesh networks and location are not new nefarious levels of detail in the tracking that has been discussed from the start.

I doubt Bob Iger can explain most of those technical details either.

It's entirely possibly to not understand the technical details while still understanding the big-picture implications.

And clearly, it's entirely possible to understand the technical details very well and miss the big-picture implications.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Looks like Iger was caught red handed, and when called out by a Senator, he acted like a spoiled little brat cause he was called out... And now, it appears the Senator has a legitimate concern... Hmm, wonder if the fanbois who worship at the alter of a dead guy and an animated mouse want to take their words back that this Senator was wrong... He seems to have been right...

I was thinking the exact same thing while reading 74's post. Iger's defensive and harsh response to the Senator's legitimate concerns make perfect sense now.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I doubt Bob Iger can explain most of those technical details either.

It's entirely possibly to not understand the technical details while still understanding the big-picture implications.

And clearly, it's entirely possible to understand the technical details very well and miss the big-picture implications.

And entirely possible to misread things and draw entirly wrong conclusions when you don't know what you are reading.

Amazing how people so *want* to believe they take the slight bait and run full steam with it.

Some have a hard time understanding when people switch between fact and opinion...
 

nytimez

Well-Known Member
And entirely possible to misread things and draw entirly wrong conclusions when you don't know what you are reading.

Amazing how people so *want* to believe they take the slight bait and run full steam with it.

Some have a hard time understanding when people switch between fact and opinion...

No, I realize his concerns are just one possibility -- it's just one I find all too real.

I'm also of the opinion that if something can be used for ill, it will absolutely at some point be used for ill. That doesn't make all those things bad. But it's a reason to treat certain things with concern and skepticism. And I find this to be one of those things.
 

John

Well-Known Member
And entirely possible to misread things and draw entirly wrong conclusions when you don't know what you are reading.

Amazing how people so *want* to believe they take the slight bait and run full steam with it.

Some have a hard time understanding when people switch between fact and opinion...


flynni....you know I totally respect your opinion. Is your opinion opposite of what Spirit reported? You are a sharp guy....what is your thoughts.
 

stevehousse

Well-Known Member
Just got back from the early screening of "Planes" at my work tonight! Brought my 2 boys (5 and 2) and they both loved it! I enjoyed it as well.

I didn't think it was a bad movie at all, very entertaining and cute! I will say that even though I enjoyed it, I did find that it didnt really have that heart and soul that Cars or other Disney/Pixar films tend to have, but it was good.

Would definitely recommend the film if you have kids.

Also I realized that during the end credits, Lasseter is billed as "story created by" which I did not know he had anything to do with this film as what a lot of people on here claimed.

Take your kids and go see it!
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
Is that supposed to make me feel better about NGE?
I don't know what worries you about NGE. You know that GPS tracking devices are ubiquitous now for people, cats, dogs, wildlife, autos, trucks and most anything that moves. LoJack has been used for many years and with GPS tracking you can locate anything in real time. Isn't it a comfort to know that you can instantly find your dog if he escapes his enclosure? You don't have to put up "Lost" posters on all the telephone poles in your neighborhood or perform a door to door canvas to find Fluffy.

Or if you have an elderly parent that has fallen down and can't get up. With GPS tracking, you'll know exactly where they have fallen down. I see it as a win, win!
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Im still trying to process this.

So where does this leave us? What is the end result here?

I understand Disney wanting to know purchasing patterns, etc., basically how to sell the resort better to us. Sadly, they dont need a $3B infastructure upgrade to sell the resort to us - The rides and entertainment do. Thats why we go, rides and entertainment.

Now what I want to know is what is Disney going to do with all this consumer data. Wouldnt you love to know who goes to Disneyworld and what they buy? That information is insanely valuable; who wouldnt pay through the nose to get targeted spending information on those with disposable incomes? Does Disney plan on trying to trying to target me based on what I do at the theme park? (Which should be weird, Enjoys jungle cruise, TTA and the princess room... figure that one out, MM+) Or do they intend on selling it to a 3rd party?

Granted, they've manage to monetize your method of park entry - Not only are you buying a ticket, you've got ways to accessorize your park ticket. I have a certain amount of begrudging respect for that because thats some serious chutzpah there.

On the other hand, bravo to the chutzpah of some of the managers who managed to allocate some of that money to get some much needed infastructure upgrades to their part of the world.

I dont get what Disney is trying to accomplish with this. If youre trying to steer the crowd in certain directions, its not going to work - You're still going to have 30k on Main Street for parade/fireworks because the best views of parade/fireworks are from main street.

If youre looking for ROI, This isnt it. You're looking for a Carsland attendance bump? Invest in entertainment and attractions - Give guests reasons to come and keep coming back. Keep making changes, keep the excitement level up. If you build it, they will come. $3B does more than just make over a few parks, it builds a brand new one.

I guess the short term answer is to get an RFID blocking wallet and to put your park ticket in there. Pay for things in cash. Buck the system.

Or we just stop going.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Also I realized that during the end credits, Lasseter is billed as "story created by" which I did not know he had anything to do with this film as what a lot of people on here claimed.

Does Lasseter oversee Disney Toons? I know he is in charge of Pixar and WDAS.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
In some actual news from D23, look who Micechat found at the Imagineering pavilion.
tumblr_mr8uxtApZn1surweuo1_1280.jpg
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
flynni....you know I totally respect your opinion. Is your opinion opposite of what Spirit reported? You are a sharp guy....what is your thoughts.

The info shared doesn't change what we already knew. What they could do or might do is still really up to them. It's no new shocking relavations ... So your opinion if the project should pretty much be same it was 12hrs ago
 

John

Well-Known Member
That wasn't my point. The point was that one feature wasn't making me feel better about the rest of the program. I am not crazy about paying a large corporation money to datamine me while I am on vacation. Call me crazy but that's just me. Its my beilief that Disney has done a fine job tracking me with an excellent security camera system. Do I need a Magic handcuff to take it to the next level? Besides I am not a dog and neither is my child. I feel quite confident and secure while I am in Disney. It has been pointed out already that child abduction is non existent in WDW. So your argument and the need for such a device is also non existent. If that is a selling point for the program....it adds up to nothing but smoke and mirrors.
 

Jeffxz

Well-Known Member
Just a quick thanks to all my friends here who have sent nice notes my way. Much appreciated.

I have something based on INTERNAL WDW Co docs that I wanted to get out and move the discussion back onto what Disney is doing in O-Town versus what UNI is doing. Naturally, it all relates to NGE (which has had Tom Staggs in town ... apparently, he had a heated discussion at the Grand Flo with another 'suit' who may well have been George, but that hasn't been confirmed yet and this stuff really isn.t quite as important to me right now as it normally would be).

Anyway, like many of us in the fan community (and those well outside of it but with a known interest), I've been on a Spirited search for any information on the massive commitment TWDC has made to the nebulous program we have come to know as "Disney's Next Generation Experience." And information I have found as Yoda (soon to be in a 3D spectacular!!!) would say.

It might conflict with what we've been led to believe, it might conflict with some insider information previously posted to this site (including my own) and it may well be that the 'final product' will be a patchwork of all of this combined with work no one is yet aware of.

I do want to reinforce that no one has been able to confirm the current expenditure for NGE. No one knows or will say. It might as well be a government program because you aren't going to find anyone, likely other than 3-4 people at the VERY top of Disney, who know the answer.

We Do know, from reliable sources and company releases, it exceeds $1.1 billion. Looking at the reconfiguring of certain budgets, the movement of monies, many folks believe the $2 billion mark was passed long ago now and the steady march toward $3 billion is inevitable. That's all probably accurate.

Now, we want Disney to invest in the parks, in tangible ways for the casual guest as well as us crazy fans. We want existing offerings maintained and new ones brought on line. Not just E-tickets, but the 'Disney' of Walt Disney World that was not so dated, not so stale, not so out of touch.

We are getting NGE. So, that's what I'm focusing my MAGICal time on right now.

Having said that,keep in mind, some of that NGE budget is going toward required improvements in both IT infrastructure and actual brick and mortar within the parks. No, not new attractions. The redos/renovations of queues, gift shops and window displays, food locations, doorways and door locks...and, yes, even MAGICal toilets (paging @TalkingHead) appear to have made their way into the NGE spend. Much has been speculated about this project, almost nothing has been confirmed beyond certain aspects of MM+ by Disney (mostly relating to FP+). and Disney, no doubt, prefers it that way.

Here's the problem: Disney is declaring publicly the opposite of what the aim/goal/mandate for NGE was and is.

Everything I've read, again from internal docs, about Disney's work on NGE is layered with terminology including data mining, machine learning, and advanced applications for all sorts of embedded systems. Those aren't my words. Those words come directly from NGE's master plan.Those are Disney's words.

Again, reread that.

In everything I have now reviewed, there's not merely an oppressive reliance on data but something more. There is, within the project, specific reference of the need to "overcome" line of sight deficiencies and the challenges of geolocation capture within large structures (i.e., anything from the Main Street's Emporium to EPCOT's Living with the Land biodomes).

ZigBee, in addition to everything else packed into those no-so-MAGICal-bands, is mentioned liberally. The absolute necessity for engineers to employ "mesh networks" and find "reliable methods to locate" parkgoers is emphasized. Whether this was accomplished isn't known, but - given the language - NGE relies heavily on this aspect.

A healthy portion of NGE references, unambiguously, the need to not just capture but exploit and warehouse data. (Both of those words are emphasized. To the point of making one's head nearly explode...and, let's face it, those are not friendly words. HINT: If you do not like the NSA spying, why would you think that it is OK for a for profit corp?)

The "venue" we regard as Walt Disney World is cited as allowing investigation into consumer behavior with "real-life guests and customers" (us) and, in particular, is touted as being 'the only place on the planet' that affords "unique investigations" of a scale and density to best exploit the convergence of technology with consumer behavior.

Now, limited as I may be in the technical aspects of some of this, and wanting as I might be to believe Disney has no interest in our specific behavior(s), some folks appear to be giving Disney a bit too much of that long ago squandered 'trust' as the project screams Big Data. And more.

There are entire coding 'departments' that appear to be focused on pulling stunningly specific data points from A BAND. No, not populations/patterns. From individuals. ID-based folios where minute-by-minute geolocation is coupled with all sorts of stuff. For example, from when you enter an attraction/building to when you exit...that's a given. But, that 'mesh' system designed for WDW seems intent on knowing exactly how your time was spent in that building.

And, of course, when you aren't actually 'hiding' in an attraction, shop or toilet stall. This stuff is referenced, folks. I guess, it appears, Disney wants to be on the forefront of this world without privacy thing. Understand, there is no knowing exactly what TWDC will be able to deliver. This is, however, what NGE was (is?) all about. Well, all of that and exploiting it for maximum profit - as the projects declares in the opening graf/outline of every piece of it I've been made privy to.

Looking at it, and some of the terminology (a fair amount, I admit, I do not have the required background to understand on a first or second read) that appears out of place in a for-profit company's planning and projects, I'm at a loss as to how this was ever designed to be a legit profit engine without the selling that data. From the start, I said that's what this was all about. I'm more convinced of that today that at any time since NGE began at Disney.

They want to know you, and your kids and -- really -- anyone and everyone, on an intimate level. They then want to turn that information into something else. At last check, I think it remains profit.


So, I've been thinking about a scenario for a few months now, but I'm not really a tin-foil hat type of guy so I thought that it would be really, really far fetched. Spirit's info seems to lend this thought a little bit of credibility now.

If you take a second to think about it, Disney has an asset that no other private corporation in the world has; They effectively own a city with a population or 50,000+ willing guinea pigs to experiment on. There is no other corporation that could gain this type of experience in the field of surveillance that Disney can.

So the next time there is a terror attack and the powers that be determine that all citizens need to be tracked at all times, there will be only one company out there that has experience doing so. And with a government contract of that size, they can see an ROI on that 3 Billion in a weekend.

While I don't necessarily think this is the intended outcome of NGE, I don't think its impossible either.
 

John

Well-Known Member
The info shared doesn't change what we already knew. What they could do or might do is still really up to them. It's no new shocking relavations ... So your opinion if the project should pretty much be same it was 12hrs ago

I agree with that...but I think the point he was making was that there was hard evidence and not just an opinion. And as you illustrated he might not fully understand what he was reading. But knowing him as we do.....I don't think he is giving this opinion strictly on his own analysis of that written info. You think?

I will make this caveat though...besides the Spirit we havnt had anyother evidence of what has been purported....correct? Someone correct me if I am wrong. As much as I respect some folks around here such as 74....I need some vetting of information before we can call it truth.
 
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