Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[Genie of the Lamp]

Oh, and I saw George at MK today

Cool, tell us more about it in the "Where's George A Kalogridis...First 100 MAGICal days" thread please.

 

[awoogala]

That should only happen when the 'fast-pass incursions' were more than the system was expecting. IE you get a glut of people returning all at once instead of their normal distributed rate. Enforcing return times, (for both FP and FP+) minimizes that scenario because there is no 'unexpected rush of FP users'.

Your complaint in this situation really is not related to FP+ or not - just more to the idea that FP access when unregulated can lead to unreliable wait time estimates. That's why enforcing return times is important.

Reality is, the wait time could be inaccurate for a lot of reasons a) breakdowns or b) GAC or similar line bypass users c) a huge rush of people to standby. (this is unless your situation you were discussing was before return times were enforced..).

The last time we went (january), we often would enter a line that had a 20 minute wait, then watch an entire tour group enter the fp line at once. 30-40 people. That is with enforced times. I don't see fp+ changing that, just making it easier for tour groups to preplan their massive fp usage.

 

[Clever Name]

I really don't see how NGE will ever be worth the hassle it would take to implement it at DLR.

I agree. Since NGE is not in harmony with DLR, I think we'll see DLR sold off in a few years after the NGE business model is proclaimed a success.

 

[dhall]

I agree. Since NGE is not in harmony with DLR, I think we'll see DLR sold off in a few years after the NGE business model is proclaimed a success.

Then there'd be "TwoDisneys" (i should register that) and we'd have a half decent chance that one of them would be worth the trip.

 

[ParentsOf4]

That is sad but until there is a change in how they do business we will be taking our business (and passion) "up the street".

I look forward to seeing you at Universal, you know, the place where they are actually building some incredible attractions.

Of course, renewing my Universal AP costs less than a 2-day WDW park hopper ticket so I'm going to have to decide between 2 days at WDW or an entire year at Universal.

 

[BryceM]

I look forward to seeing you at Universal, you know, the place where they are actually building some incredible attractions.

Of course, renewing my Universal AP costs less than a 2-day WDW park hopper ticket so I'm going to have to decide between 2 days at WDW or an entire year at Universal.

There really is no beating the prices for Universal's APs, especially for Florida residents like myself.

 

[HMF]

I agree. Since NGE is not in harmony with DLR, I think we'll see DLR sold off in a few years after the NGE business model is proclaimed a success.

A success for whom, Maybe a success for the suits who designed it but definitely not a success for the Guests.

 

[WDW1974]

Funnily enough, when I rode Jungle Cruise two weeks ago, a lady was texting. The skipper called her out and made some good jokes at her expense. I was laughing pretty hard.

She probably bitched at City Hall and received a free week at WDW in the future ...

 

[WDW1974]

I already think the price is too high. But I also don't have a view of what everything it bought.. so I find it hard to be critical on the exact spend. I find your rumors of cost overruns to be far more disturbing than the raw number itself. The scale at which this company spends money dwarves anything I can put honest critique into.. so I don't. I find little value in ranting over Disney's lack of thrift.. it's like complaining about the rain.. what are you going to do? Just because I don't post about it doesn't mean I like it or support it.. just some things just aren't interesting to me.

Yet, you have probably posted as much or more than anyone else here about NGE, and you've largely defended the tech and criticized any of us with concerns. That's fine if you work for Disney or Accenture & Cisco or any of their PR/social media consultants ... but for a poster here there reaches a point where we've all gotten what you're saying. Folks either don't agree or feel like arguing forever. I'm, once again, more than willing to give you the last comment because I don't want to talk about it anymore unless there are more/new developments.

I can't believe you think that arguing the same point is more interesting than any of the other topics you could opt for.

And if you don't like or support the amount of capital Disney has invested in NGE, then why argue the merits of it ... or the possible merits?

The idea of a vacation resort vs a collection of theme parks. I still have found memories of canoeing.. learning to water ski for the first time.. camp fires.. Disney being so far out ahead it was like its own world. Water faucets that were automatic.. etc.. dining experiences that were unlike any other. Now, the competition has caught up and Disney doesn't feel like it stands out on its own away from everyone else. They've been copied so much, the gap has been closed by others getting better, and Disney simply hasn't innovated as fast as the competition has caught up IMO. When I went back after about a 10 year hiatus.. I was totally let down by the parks. Only once I got to the water parks did I feel like Disney stood head and shoulders above the norm. DCL offers that kind of lofty separation too.. but most of WDW and DLR just feel like 'your favorite theme park' instead of being a world apart from everyone else.

Well, that's something we almost totally agree on, although I'd put Aquatica right up with Disney's H2O parks.
I have never gone six months without a visit since 1974 as far as I can recall, so I've watched the deterioration in the MAGIC close up and first hand. It has been one long steady slide from around 1996 to present. The worst definitely was from Y2K on ...

 

[WDW1974]

Yes.. but funny how differently people react based on the players in the game. To me that is far more interesting than the data in question. It's about the brand and the perceptions that people hold. Switch over to your PR mode and think about how people pick imagery and colors...

Disney has a 'blind trust' and 'soft, friendly' association. A utility company carries a connotation of abuse, incompetence, pain, distrust.

The risk of Disney harming that decades old image and the associated trust that comes along with it is far more compelling and legitimate to me than if someone thinks a targeted ad is now creepy.

I tend to find it creepy how Disney has taken that carefully crafted and much-deserved reputation and allowed it to be used to shill for products that are less than.

Did I ever blindly trust Disney? As a child, sure. Probably into my young adulthood as I had so much respect for what the company was producing at the time that I never cared to peak behind the curtain ... but once I started to ... well, it's sorta like virginity or death, once you go there's no going back.

 

[John]

I tend to find it creepy how Disney has taken that carefully crafted and much-deserved reputation and allowed it to be used to shill for products that are less than.

Did I ever blindly trust Disney? As a child, sure. Probably into my young adulthood as I had so much respect for what the company was producing at the time that I never cared to peak behind the curtain ... but once I started to ... well, it's sorta like virginity or death, once you go there's no going back.

LMAO....Only you could equate virginity and death.....or even put the two words in the same sentence.

 

[WDW1974]

Let me try this..
Disney appears to be shifting away from their traditional method of attracting, wowing, and keeping guests. They are no longer building the biggest and best attractions, and seem unwilling to properly refurbish and maintain their existing attractions.

While this seems to predate the implementation of NextGen, one has to wonder if there is not a connection.

We are seeing a shift in business strategy, away from the traditional Disney model (now embraced by their competition) to a model that relies heavily on leveraging their existing properties while implementing new methods of "enhancing" the guest experience through things such as NGE.

Is NGE to blame for the lack of new attractions or refurbs? Not directly.
The blame lies with the shift in business model which has in turn spawned NGE.

Hence...I dislike NGE because I greatly dislike and disagree with the change in business strategy which has given birth to it.

That better? Find fault with that one?

Knowing Flynn?

But I don't find any fault in that at all. I think you nailed it well.

It seems like a chicken and egg discussion when what you should all agree with is that breakfast ain't nearly as tasty or quality as it once was.
And no one can rationally argue that NGE will make any change in that when you're hungry.

 

[WDW1974]

Yes - that is a VERY different claim. As you say.. who came first? And I agree the strategy of leveraging and milking came first. I'm not as certain that NextGen is about further milking.. but more a lateral shift in philosophy like I mentioned before when it comes to theme parks. But the net result of that different thinking is lack of traditional show quality and expansion.

Very different paths... with similar outcomes. But similar outcomes do not mean same path to get there.

Yup. Thought so.

Even in agreeing there be disagreeing. What a surprise!

How in the world can you claim that NGE isn't about further milking when that is exactly what sold the model to Disney's BoD in the first place?
A NEW REVENUE MODEL. Disney's NGE is all about milking existing udders that are already bleeding for yet more milk. That they're doing so with kewl to some tech does NOT change the basics.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You find Google's ads 'creepy'?

It's the slippery slope argument. Google ads are targetted but for the most part they don't cross the line of being invasive. But things like supermarket membership cards operate the same way, and those have had a public history of becoming invasive. I believe it was Target that knew some women were pregnant before their families did.

The concern that people have is when does this cross over into creepiness. What's likely is that Google, Target, and now Disney knows more about us than they're actually letting on - As Uncle Ben would say, with great power comes great responsibility. The goal for Disney as a result of this is to get the most money out of each of their guests without those guests feeling an invasion of privacy.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm not saying don't continue to improve the parks, but you can't be upset with the company looking for opportunities to transform the theme park experience.

I can be upset when the company turns its back on what worked for 45-plus years of theme park development and decides that the appetizer ...nope wrong anaology ... the silverware and plates are more important the quality of the meal and service.

That's what NGE is. Technical bells and whistles designed to empty your bank accounts and push your credit cards to their limits.

That is NOT what made Disney a stand-alone. It might be what makes them just another BRAND, which they are getting closer and closer to being.

 

[RSoxNo1]

They've already started the hardest part - enforcing return times. Transitioning to FP+ vs FP is not a big deal depending on how you allocate capacity. If there is ample inventory available day of (like FP) the visiting pattern doesn't make as much an impact. The bigger hit is to those fans who rely on gaming the system to maximize their # of FPs.. and any notion of 'one park, one day' will never fly there. So I think it's more of a question of 'limiting FP' that will be the sour pill to swallow out there. They will be those that hate FP+ as a 'crippled FP' instead of liking the benefits of online access, no park runners, early access, etc.

I'd like to see how much GAC usage has increased since the enforcement of return times. I speculate that many borderline GAC people that would have used Fastpass under the old rules are now using GAC. While the technology behind acquiring a Fastpass may be improving it seems that usage is becoming more prohibitive. As a result, it's hard to see the advantage of the tradeoff.

 

[WDW1974]

I agree. Since NGE is not in harmony with DLR, I think we'll see DLR sold off in a few years after the NGE business model is proclaimed a success.

You are so clever. You probably are like the one who brings up allegations of Uncle Frank molesting little girls at family Thanksgiving just to see the mayhem and the yams flying. I don't think that's your best effort, though, so no likey.

 

[WDW1974]

There really is no beating the prices for Universal's APs, especially for Florida residents like myself.

They'll be going up soon too, I'm sure. ... Just not to the crazy points that Disney's will be (you know, someone's gotta pay for all those new door locks and light up Mickey pole readers!)

 

[Walt 1901]

I just voted against every single board member at TWDC. I wish there was away to get more shareholders to do the same. I would love for someone to come along who could put Disney back to the fore front on theme parks and animation.

 

[ParentsOf4]

That's what NGE is. Technical bells and whistles designed to empty your bank accounts and push your credit cards to their limits.

MM+ is new packaging on a very old product. The product is still the same, even if the packaging is different.

Iger just spent $1.5B so Disney can better leverage WDW. Disney just spent $1.5B so it can squeeze more revenue out of the same product.

MM+ is the pretty bow and paper wrapping that's supposed to make us forget that, in the end, it's still the same old WDW, just a little bit more run down than it was last year, a bit more run down than the year before that, and even more run down than the year before that.

Thank goodness I'm 4 weeks away from my next trip to Universal!