Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[GoofGoof]

Since this thread's title includes NGE ...

The My Disney Experience terms and conditions page continues to evolve. It appears the following was updated recently:

Nothing new in the MagicBand part; this was well understood and part of the old T&C. However, the reference to the long-range readers not automatically detecting RFID cards is relatively new. As stated in Iger’s earlier response to Rep. Markey’s letter:

It looks like Disney reevaluated its RFID technology and determined it’s capable of more than what was originally stated. Disney no longer is claiming the “short-range chip” contained in the RFID cards “cannot be detected by the long-range readers”; only that they will “not automatically detect radio frequency cards”. This wording modification suggests long-range readers are capable of detecting RFID cards and, instead, the system is being redesigned to not “automatically” detect RFID cards using long-range readers.

For anyone who’s been paying close attention, this represents some egg on Disney’s face. Disney continues to present RFID cards as a viable option for those who don’t want to wear MagicBands out of a concern of being tracked. Now Disney seems might be quietly acknowledging that, yes, even with RFID cards, the long-range readers are technically capable of detecting RFID cards and, apparently, Disney simply is disabling this ability at this time.

Some RFID tags (i.e. “chips”) are capable of being detected at ranges of over 100 feet while others typically can be detected at no more than a few feet. If the RFID cards only contained “short-range” tags (all that’s needed for the various “touch” services of MyMagic+) then how can they be detected by long-range readers? Exactly what does Disney consider “long-range”? Different tags use different radio frequencies, depending on the range required. If the purpose of the “long-range readers” is to only read long-range tags, then how are they even capable of reading the “short-range chip” contained in the RFID cards, which presumably use lower frequencies?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but doesn't that say that the bands will automatically be detected by long range readers while the cards will not. If that's the case than the cards still let you opt out of being involved with the long range readers and the interactive elements that they would activate. Sounds to me like the cards would only be used for touch pads like paying at cashiers or using FP+.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but doesn't that say that the bands will automatically be detected by long range readers while the cards will not. If that's the case than the cards still let you opt out of being involved with the long range readers and the interactive elements that they would activate. Sounds to me like the cards would only be used for touch pads like paying at cashiers or using FP+.

Yes, I believe you are reading this correctly.

The point of my earlier post was that, previously, Disney emphatically stated the cards "cannot [emphasis added] be detected by the long-range readers". Now Disney is stating "These long-range readers do not automatically [emphasis added] detect radio frequency cards."

IMHO, there's a difference between something that cannot be done and something that is not automatically done.

As for opting out, if the long-range readers are capable of reading the short-range tags, then "opting out" doesn't mean much if, in the future, Disney decides to change its long-range readers to automatically detect both MagicBands and RFID cards. I guess that will never happen because we know WDW has never changed any of its policies.

 

[Lee]

Well I blame Lee. After all, Spirit left him in charge. Next time hopefully Spirit will have the good sense to leave me in charge during his next departure.

I think we all realize how important it is to maintain a high level of Internet elocution in Spirit's absence.

Hay! Watch it!
I'm the guy in charge 'round these parts while Spirit's gone.
Not my fault that its been a slow week in Disney news....

Maybe I'll receive a Spirited transmission from regions beyond soon with some interesting tidbits...

 

[jt04]

Hay! Watch it!
I'm the guy in charge 'round these parts while Spirit's gone.

So you are Al Haig's spirit?

 

[Lord_Vader]

Since this thread's title includes NGE ...

The My Disney Experience terms and conditions page continues to evolve. It appears the following was updated recently:

Nothing new in the MagicBand part; this was well understood and part of the old T&C. However, the reference to the long-range readers not automatically detecting RFID cards is relatively new. As stated in Iger’s earlier response to Rep. Markey’s letter:

It looks like Disney reevaluated its RFID technology and determined it’s capable of more than what was originally stated. Disney no longer is claiming the “short-range chip” contained in the RFID cards “cannot be detected by the long-range readers”; only that they will “not automatically detect radio frequency cards”. This wording modification suggests long-range readers are capable of detecting RFID cards and, instead, the system is being redesigned to not “automatically” detect RFID cards using long-range readers.

For anyone who’s been paying close attention, this represents some egg on Disney’s face. Disney continues to present RFID cards as a viable option for those who don’t want to wear MagicBands out of a concern of being tracked. Now Disney seems might be quietly acknowledging that, yes, even with RFID cards, the long-range readers are technically capable of detecting RFID cards and, apparently, Disney simply is disabling this ability at this time.

Some RFID tags (i.e. “chips”) are capable of being detected at ranges of over 100 feet while others typically can be detected at no more than a few feet. If the RFID cards only contained “short-range” tags (all that’s needed for the various “touch” services of MyMagic+) then how can they be detected by long-range readers? Exactly what does Disney consider “long-range”? Different tags use different radio frequencies, depending on the range required. If the purpose of the “long-range readers” is to only read long-range tags, then how are they even capable of reading the “short-range chip” contained in the RFID cards, which presumably use lower frequencies?

RFID scanners emit an RF field, if the field output is strong enough it will be received by any RFID device and the result is the RFID chip in your RFID Card or MagicBand will transmit. If the RFID scanner is sensitive enough, it will receive the signal plain and simple.

 

[fosse76]

Universal does have a "special" access to people that stay in the hotels, but, as you stated, they are also able to provide that nearly same thing to people that are willing to spend extra to do it. In my experience, it is much less expensive then staying in the resorts. Passes at Uni are unlimited whereas the purchased ones are good for one time per ride. It is a blanket "pass" to all attractions that offers the pass option. But one time only.

They have an unlimited option available at the parks, so there isn't just the "one time only" option.

 

[Sneezy62]

So you are Al Haig's spirit?

I think of @Lee more as Harry Truman.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Hay! Watch it!
I'm the guy in charge 'round these parts while Spirit's gone.
Not my fault that its been a slow week in Disney news....

Maybe I'll receive a Spirited transmission from regions beyond soon with some interesting tidbits...

If you're going to take over leadership duties, you will need to prove worthy of such leadership. The following tip might help. Hay = horse food Hey = exclamation to show acknowledgement and need for attention. You can use either but we all know what hay ends up being. Your choice, oh, great and benevolent leader.

 

[openendedsky]

It never took me 45 minutes. Ever.

Although that hotel isn't what I would call "close to Disney", it is not 45 minutes away. Heck, I can get from my house to Disney in less than that.

Is it possible that your memory is off?

Honestly, they probably traveled during rush hours.

 

[Funmeister]

Here is an interesting news tidbit on a slow Disney news day!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/business/some-retailers-rethink-their-role-in-bangladesh.html?_r=0

 

[openendedsky]

Here is an interesting news tidbit on a slow Disney news day!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/business/some-retailers-rethink-their-role-in-bangladesh.html?_r=0

Hopefully this sets a precedent for other companies.

 

[flynnibus]

RFID scanners emit an RF field, if the field output is strong enough it will be received by any RFID device and the result is the RFID chip in your RFID Card or MagicBand will transmit. If the RFID scanner is sensitive enough, it will receive the signal plain and simple.

Radio that relies on transmit and receive is not that simple... not only must your signal (or field in this case) get to the card.. but the cards 'transmitted' response must be capable of getting to the receiver.

In short.. Just because I can illuminate you from a distance.. but that doesn't mean I'll be able to see what is sent back. Or an example.. a very loud searcher may be yelling out a name.. and the victim may hear the name being called and may try to reply.. but the searcher may not hear the reply back because the victim's voice isn't as strong as the searchers. Same thing here... the system isn't necessarily symmetrical because of space and power issues.

It's why one might put an active radio in a device to start with...

To @ParentsOf4 - There isn't a whole lot you can read into this because 'long range readers' are not explicitly defined and delineated. The term could be used for both passive listeners (listening for the 'beacon') AND longer range active scanners (think RFID reader in a ride).

It's kind of indiscernible at this point what the change really means. Is it a 'CYA' change incase someone tries to make a technical argument that they COULD read something? Or is it a clarification of intent... leaving the door open to infer they CAN be read. I don't think we have enough here to say either way...

It's still my technical belief that I do not think they will irradiate mass areas of the park.. for both technical and potential health points people could start throwing at them.

 

[71jason]

On Dec 26th last year I did.

So you're making a generalization based on THE SINGLE BUSIEST DAY OF THE YEAR...

By that logic, Stich's Great Escape is a hugely popular ride--it had hour long waits that day!

For the record, I didn't visit the parks that day (wouldn't do it with a stolen one), but I imagine Disney resort transportation all had long lines, and buses were as caught up in traffic as everyone else.

 

[ParentsOf4]

RFID scanners emit an RF field, if the field output is strong enough it will be received by any RFID device and the result is the RFID chip in your RFID Card or MagicBand will transmit. If the RFID scanner is sensitive enough, it will receive the signal plain and simple.

RFID readers use difference frequencies, typically depending on the required read range. A short-range passive RFID tag, typically Low Frequency (LF), can be read at no more than a few inches by a reader using that frequency band. That’s why LF is unregulated. (I agree the actual range is influenced by the RFID reader’s signal strength but a tag’s read range is limited by the frequency band.) A long-range passive RFID tag, typically Ultra High Frequency (UHF), can be read at much further distances. A UHF RFID reader normally cannot read a LF tag; they use different frequencies.

The various “touch” operations require read ranges of only a few inches. Therefore, RFID cards should contain only LF tags. If they do, then there should be no way they can be read by presumably UHF “long-range readers”. That’s why Iger’s original statement (“The card contains a short-range chip whose location cannot be detected by the long-range readers stationed in the park”) makes technical sense.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It's kind of indiscernible at this point what the change really means. Is it a 'CYA' change incase someone tries to make a technical argument that they COULD read something? Or is it a clarification of intent... leaving the door open to infer they CAN be read. I don't think we have enough here to say either way...

I agree, the change in the T&C could simply be a CYA change made to cover some unusual (even bizarre) scenario imagined by a techie.

It still represents Disney backing off it's original statement that it "cannot" be done.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Another article to ponder…
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...late-means-for-the-rest-of-hollywood-20130502

You know Bob, that summer of '15 could be clouded by some of the deep dark secrets your company holds…

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, I believe you are reading this correctly.

The point of my earlier post was that, previously, Disney emphatically stated the cards "cannot [emphasis added] be detected by the long-range readers". Now Disney is stating "These long-range readers do not automatically [emphasis added] detect radio frequency cards."

IMHO, there's a difference between something that cannot be done and something that is not automatically done.

As for opting out, if the long-range readers are capable of reading the short-range tags, then "opting out" doesn't mean much if, in the future, Disney decides to change its long-range readers to automatically detect both MagicBands and RFID cards. I guess that will never happen because we know WDW has never changed any of its policies.

I think this has more to do with distance being relative. I think it's more about people with the card being able to get physically close enough to a long range reader that the card could be properly read, not that the cards are capable of long range communication.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Radio that relies on transmit and receive is not that simple... not only must your signal (or field in this case) get to the card.. but the cards 'transmitted' response must be capable of getting to the receiver.

In short.. Just because I can illuminate you from a distance.. but that doesn't mean I'll be able to see what is sent back. Or an example.. a very loud searcher may be yelling out a name.. and the victim may hear the name being called and may try to reply.. but the searcher may not hear the reply back because the victim's voice isn't as strong as the searchers. Same thing here... the system isn't necessarily symmetrical because of space and power issues.

It's why one might put an active radio in a device to start with...

I understand radio technologies and their limitations very well, was simply trying to keep it fairly simple without getting into noise floors, SNR, etc. that complicate radio signal transmission and receipt at nearly all frequencies.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

Comcast released it's 1Q earnings today and they stated that UNI Orlando received an 12.2% increase in revenue. Here's an article on this at OBJ:
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2013/05/comcast-corps-universal-theme-parks.html

For DIS, they are having a live webcast on May 7th at 5PM eastern time for the 2Q earnings you can tune into. Pretty much the same thing they did for the shareholders meeting.

Transformers grand opening: June 20th

Not much else.

 

[Clever Name]

It still represents Disney backing off it's original statement that it "cannot" be done.

If you can dream it, you can do it.